I don't want to live in this country anymore...

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Melmoth the Wanderer, Apr 16, 2008.

  1. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Well, I guess I don't want to live in general, but the state of politics and society in the USA have really been bothering me these past few weeks. I'm getting so depressed that I'm having trouble writing clearly. I hope what follows makes sense.

    First, I want to state that America does not have freedom of the press, freedom of speech, or freedom of assembly.

    The press here, for various reasons, has become weak and purely entertaining. It is more concerned with profit and ratings than with truth. Investigative reports occur less frequently and less often. Government corruption is more easily covered up, as editors no longer want to pay a reporter to follow a story or to acquire credible sources. Because of this, the press can only recite what the government and the various corporations tell them upfront. This presidency has shown signs of various deep-rooted scandals for months, but every time one pops up, the press can't get any farther than the government wants them to. What's worse is, because of low salaries, some reporters are actually taking money from the government and corporations in exchange for praise or cover-up.

    Censors have been choking various media's free speech for years; this is nothing new. What's worse in my mind is when everyday people try to silence someone with a different opinion. I've felt it myself and I've seen it happen to other people: the second you say anything questioning the actions of this country and government, you make a roomful of disdainful enemies who do not hesitate to gang up on you. From that point on, they will also try to silence you completely by ignoring you or by subtly belittling your views. This is such an understated infringement of the freedom of speech that most people don't think about it. The only reason I noticed it is because I asked myself a question: Why am I suddenly scared to express my opinion?

    To make this country less hypocritical, the freedom of peaceful assembly should be removed from the Bill of Rights outright. The sixties and seventies showed us clearly that demonstrations and protests are not tolerated, that you can and will be killed/injured if you participate in one. If we ever had the right to assemble, it died by the mid-seventies. Don't get me wrong: we can still have parades, festivals, and "celebrations"; we can still protest in "protest pens" located a mile from what we're protesting. Passive resistance is welcome here, but active resistance will get you shot. People say that protests in the sixties often became riots. I respond that they only became riots when the police and National Guard intervened. If you don't believe me, here's a video on youtube that shows a recent anti-war demonstration in NYC being quickly dispersed. If any of you were wondering why Americans aren't protesting the war, the video will show you the reason:


    Here's another vid of a very recent "protest" that was allowed to continue more or less unhindered. See any differences between the two?


    Another thing that really bothers me is that this nation condones torture. I want to make this perfectly clear: sensory deprivation, extreme isolation, sleep and nutritional deprivation, over stimulation (bright lights and loud, constant noise), humiliation, kidnapping, and simulation of death (in other words, pretending to drown, suffocate, hang, shoot, or otherwise kill someone) are forms of torture. People got upset over waterboarding, but no one told us that the exact same effect can be achieved in another, even easier way (sorry, not posting how on a suicide forum). Besides torture being immoral, unethical, and barbaric, it is also ineffective. When a person finally breaks down under torture, he or she will say anything to stop the pain and please the interrogator. It’s beyond me as to why we believe broken men and women can only speak the truth. When I get in trouble, I lie if it is better to do so—for example, sometimes I apologize to the other person even though I feel no remorse. It is normal human behavior to avoid pain however we can, and pleasing lies often prevent such pain. The fact that most Americans are silent on the issue shows that we believe the ends justify the means. To put it succinctly:

    The last thing I want to discuss is the upcoming election. I’m avoiding names because I don’t want this to pop up in a search engine somewhere and be idiotically mistaken for a threat. There are three candidates in the running, and I believe all of them are good choices. With two of them, however, the status quo will continue if s/he is elected, and that status quo is already unbearable for me. The third one is the only one with a good chance of changing things, but I’m worried that he will be killed before voting even starts. Even if he lives and is elected, we all know that the position will only make him more vulnerable. He’s a good guy, and good guys suffer in this country.

    Other issues bother me as well about the US: the extreme patriotism/nationalism present everywhere; the complete lack of environmental concern; the shaky economy; the lack of appreciation for the arts and sciences; the prevalence and power of fundamentalist religion; and, of course, the stupid, meaningless war; but I’m getting tired now.

    I want to leave this place. I know that there are worst places in the world to be, but I also know there are better places. Unfortunately, I have few skills and hardly any money. Becoming a citizen of another country is a far-off dream at best. I know this is an infinitely long shot, but I’m writing it anyway: if any of you could offer advice or a means to help me get out of here, I would owe you my life.

    If you have any thoughts, feel free to post them, but know that I’m not trying to bring down this country or anything. Even if all the bad is made good again, I simply can’t be the person I want to be here.

    Oh, and I’ll be very impressed if any of you actually read this thing through. :smile:
  2. diver200

    diver200 Senior Member

    Today, I went to the doctor. There I saw no fewer than 20 kids.. . .okay, not in the sense that they were pre-teens, they were kids because they were in their late teens, and early twenties. Some were missing arms. Some were missing a leg or two. Some had burns over their body such that they were barely recognizable as humans. If they were not walking upright, I might have thought them hideous beasts from a horror movie. But they were not. They were young military patriots.

    You see, those kids were at my local military hospital, where after fighting or supporting the fight to support a country that allows people like you to freely voice your opinion, they came back mangled at their jobs. No matter what you think of the current war, it cannot be doubted that these heroes were maimed doing what they believe to have been in support of our lifestyle in the USA.

    I doubt highly that in your existence you face, or can ever imagine facing the kind of dangers they face every day. That they witness their friends experiencing and dying for every day. If you think we have a stifle on your right to express your opinion, and that free speech is not present in the United States, then you need to be on the next plane to Baghdad. Spend one week there. That is all. Not 15 months of your life, just one week. None of your family will have children while you are gone. They won't have to face the bill collector because this great nation has chosen to think nothing of paying men and women at poverty level for the privilege of being shot at, or facing an IED ruining their lives forever. The car won't break down leaving your spouse stranded with no one to call on because he or she lives hundreds or thousands of miles from his or her own family. The kids in your life will not experience any milestones: they won't take their first step, they won't speak their first words, they won't celebrate a birthday or two, they won't go to their senior prom and they won't graduate from college. No, my fellow American, none of that will happen to you.

    Rather, what will happen, is that you will see people whose opinions TRULY have been stifled, not with "censorship." Their right to practice the religion of their choice has been forced from them. They would LOVE to be censored. No, my dear friend, they are killed, tortured, or perhaps worse yet, forced to watch while their families are raped and killed, just to send the message that they should not be against the government in power.

    Then, I want you to go back home. After you have had the opportunity to have those memories gel, I want you to spend another 22 hours in a plane (not in a coach or first class seat, but in a troop plane with no insulation, no seats, and only cargo strap benches to sit in) and this time, you can go to Serbia and Croatia. There again, you can visit all the lovely sites. Places where the smear of death is still present, so much so that mass grave sites are identifiable from the air. Spend a week there, then return home.

    After you get back from that, go to Tibet. Watch the inhumanity going on there. I invite you to do so.

    After you return from these trips, again come into this forum and tell the world that your right to free speech has been stripped from you. Your right to choose your own religion is no longer applicable. Then, my friend, we will have a really good conversation. In the meantime, just think about those kids I saw today, I hope I have given you enough of a visual image to do so. And then decide if you are in the wrong country. If you think so, you know where the door is. Have a nice life. In the meantime, I, and my brothers in arms will still stand at the ready to defend your right to say your mind, even if what you have to say is only based on your shortsighted view of the world. And thank God there are people willing to stand and fight for your right to say what you want. I know plenty that are willing to die for you. So think about them. Again, if you feel you can't live in this oppressive country, move to another one. In the meantime, you should thank whatever you believe in that you DO have free speech, and thank all of those who have died for your right to have it. Remember this: All sacrifice some; SOME sacrifice all.
  3. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    I appreciate your heartfelt reply, but I had worried someone would react the way it seems you have. I criticize the government and the events happening here, and many people assume that I'm also criticizing the soldiers. This is not the case, as I have nothing against the soldiers, only against the people in power who send them to fight. To use a bad metaphor, I'm concerned with the king, queen, bishop, and knight pieces, not the pawns (sorry I couldn't seem to come up with a better example).

    I know soldiers are suffering and I want that suffering to end. They shouldn't have to fight this war and end up maimed and disabled. However, I disagree that they are fighting for my freedom. This war isn't being fought to protect anyone's rights, and it certainly isn't being fought to create a better life for other people. Officially, over 90,000 Iraqi civilians have died; unofficially (in other words, according to how many death certificates have been issued), at least 500,000 have died. I tend to believe the larger number, as we often understate the number of civilians dead (remember My Lai?). But in either case, how is this liberating?

    I am well aware of man's inhumanity towards man. Even if I didn't force myself to learn about such things, I can see signs of apathy and cruelty in everyday life. I wish we could stop all the world's pain, but there's just too much of it. I take on what I can and try to keep up with some of the other situations. That's all most people can do.

    As for the door, if I knew where it was, I wouldn't be asking for help. I'm free to visit other countries, but permanently leaving this one and living in another is quite a different matter.
  4. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Forgot to add one more thing: the war has already cost almost 512 billion dollars. IMO, all the psychologically and physically wounded deserve the money more.
  5. diver200

    diver200 Senior Member

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure if I support of the war. I guess I was just trying to point out, as someone who has seen some of that crap, we really don't have it that bad here, and we should be grateful for what we do have.
  6. Patch

    Patch Well-Known Member

    Emotional blackmail doesn't win an argument, Diver.
  7. diver200

    diver200 Senior Member

    patch, ur right. I really wasn't trying to "argue," i really am just trying to point out that even if we have pimples here, we are a lot better off than others. I was serious when I said I was at the hospital today. I guess that made me get an emotional, knee jerk reaction to the thread.
  8. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Thank you, Patch.

    Diver, I don't want to argue, either. I do enjoy debate, but I'm not trying to get a rouse out of you or anyone else. I understand your reaction to what I wrote. My great-grandfather was exposed to mustard gas in WWI. My grandfather was permanently injured during WWII, both physically and mentally: he never walked without a cane afterward, and he never stopped having traumatic flashbacks. My father was drafted during Vietnam, but he was sent to Europe, for which I am eternally grateful. In other words, I've seen the after-effects of war firsthand, and I hate that others are suffering similar fates. Those 20 you saw yesterday didn't deserve injury; no one on either side deserves it.

    I know things could be a lot worse here; I only fear that things won't get better for a long time. Sometimes, pimples can become more infected; sometimes, pimples are really cysts.
  9. diver200

    diver200 Senior Member


    I'm not roused, believe me. I really am just saying we don't have it so damn awful bad here. BTW: one photo in the link here that is important: There is a picture of an Iraqi woman giving the "victory/peace" sign. The blue smudge on her finger shows that she just voted in that country's first free election AND the first election or any involvement in politics that women were aloud to take a part of.
  10. Darken

    Darken Well-Known Member

    Well said. Sad thing is though, all you wrote has been going on for 50+ years. The government is controlled by a shadowgovernment which is controlled by the illuminati. All the wars are based on lies and deception. We are not in the middle east for any good reasons. You really think bush took us to war illegally and with force to bring freedom and peace to the middle east? I hope you're not that naive. We went to the middle east for many reasons, the basics like power, control, to steal their oil and build bases to further the new world order agenda in that part of the world. It's driving us into huge debt (maybe intentionally) and our money system (the corrupt private elite bankers federal reserve) is being destroyed. They are already trying to replace it with the amero, the currency that "conspiracy wackos" like the zionist controlled news calls any one who has different views said. This currency will be the money for the north american union.

    It's not just happening is the united states friend. Its happening all over the world. The orwellian one world government conspiracy is real . I've seen a ton of evidence for this and I'm totally convinced now.

    Also you seem to think one of the presidential candidates isn't controlled or is honest and that is not true. They are all puppets every one of them, warmongers, socialist globalists. Council of foreign relations members all of them, which is an openly globalist group, and a branch of the shadow government. The three good candidates were mike gravel, dennis kucinich, and ron paul. Whom the media gave very little attention too and or smeared. What we need is a person that respects our constitution and will follow it and thanks to ignorant americans we don't have any left in the race.

    Toture is evil and barbaric, and they can do it now with out a warrant or a fair trial, habius corpus. The constitution says "there shall be no cruel or unusual punishment" enough said, there is no debate here wether it should be legal.

    Next we will all be told we should take a microchip for safety or convenience, and of course that will be just the cover story for why they really want us to them. Every move watched, ever internet page recorded, every message typed, every thing you buy or sell recorded. Big brother in a microchip. Don't like what they say or what they do? They can just turn off your chip and you won't be able to buy or sell. Mark of the beast people. Watch Zeitgeist.
  11. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Diver200: Thank you for the link. Sometimes it is difficult to remember that some people are doing good in this world. The pictures were beautifully taken, too (I love photography). However, I can't help but remember other pictures I've seen that, though not as well composed, nonetheless show me the suffering caused by war. I'd post a link, but the images were quite gruesome and depressing (I will send the link in a pm if anyone requests it). I know these pictures are sensationalist (eg: a child with his head smashed in; a girl with her legs blown off; etc), but I also know that they show the realities of this and any modern war. I'm not saying the soldiers are monsters without consciences, though I fear that's how I'll come across. I'm saying that technology has exponentially increased war "casualties" (I hate that word, btw). I'm saying that no matter how smart a weapon is, innocent people will still be hurt.

    I want to make it very clear that I’m still not blaming the soldiers. As the soldier Yossarian said in Catch-22, 6 million people are trying to kill him. Our soldiers are facing a similar situation, only this time the 6 million have long-since stopped wearing uniforms and signs. When our enemies look exactly like our friends, tragic casualties result.

    Darken: Yes, I've worried that world politics are as corrupted as you say. I watched a show on the Illuminati and similar groups on the History Channel, and it's scary to think about how much influence they really have.

    However, I believe that complex, evil conspiracies are not as common as we tend to think. I think most conspiracies simply consist of friends doing favors for and helping each other. For example, I'm more patient with and willing to help a person who is my friend or who has done something for me in the past. Applied on a larger scale, this becomes politics. In other words, I think conspiracy, depending on your definition, is part of human nature and therefore unavoidable. That being said, we need to remain on the lookout for corruption and unfairness. It's fine when I'm kind to someone because they did me a favor; it's a completely different matter when I give that person a promotion or try to get other people out of his way.

    No matter who runs, the presidential election depresses me in general because the American people's votes don't really matter. Sure, our votes are "considered", but as we've seen repeatedly in the past, it's really the Electoral College making the decision. I blame the founding fathers for their elitist philosophies (in a nutshell: "the common man is too stupid to vote intelligently"), and I blame those in power who do not change it.

    As you said, there should be no debate about torture, and that is what has been bothering me for months. I've watched news anchors and governmental officials on TV discussing and making excuses for torture. I know other, "civilized" countries have used torture in the past or are using it even now. What bothers me about this country is that we're barely even ashamed of it, that we think it is justifiable, if unpleasant. Our excuses are pathetic, but we want to believe them and so we do. We're torturing people, and we don't even care.

    I'll look into Zeitgeist. :smile:
  12. ggg456

    ggg456 Guest

    I share a lot of your feelings Melmoth. I've wanted to get out of here (UK) too. I don't want to be part of the country. If I could I'd go but I can't. I've had to shut off the news for the past year or so because it's too much for me at the moment emotionally/psychologically. As for freedom of the press, there's no such thing. It's like watching a circus and it makes me physically ill watching a bunch of twisted lies fed day in day out to the public who think that we live in a "civilised country" where you are "free." The torture going on by the police to men suspected of terrorism here where their families are being torn apart because of that, the things going on within this country is just horrific enough, in terms of civil liberties/privacy being eroded in the name of 'protecting' us while they don't really care about the protection of the lives of people in Iraq- the people who have been killed or damaged or wounded or tortured there is on a scale there is unimaginable and beyond words. I haven't been following the US elections, so don't know the good guy you talk of but generally I don't trust politicians or election campaigns, in the US, UK or Iraq itself.

    As for soldiers- I won't go into it but not all soldiers are there for the good of the Iraqi people....or even care about the people in Iraq, or even respect the people in Iraq. Abu Ghraib? That's not to say a lot are caught in a difficult situation, but I've seen programmes last year where men have come back are literally feeding off the excitement of death and suffering.
  13. Melmoth the Wanderer

    Melmoth the Wanderer Well-Known Member

    Sorry I didn't reply sooner. I was feeling very low yesterday, but today I'm a bit better.

    ggg456: Thank you for posting on this thread. It's good to know that I'm not alone. I suspected that the UK was in a similar situation to the US. I happened to be in Paris the summer of 2005, and I could feel the tension and anxiety increase there when the bombings happened in London. I can only imagine what it felt like to be in the UK at the time. Terrorism and fear are not excuses for taking away rights, but they've been used over here as well. I prefer freedom to such "safety" any day. I'd rather die free than live in chains.

    I know that soldiers commit atrocities (eg: members of the Tiger Force or soldiers in My Lai during the Vietnam War), but what angers me most about such incidents is that no justice is ever served. There will always be cruel and sadistic people in this world, but when the justice system barely slaps them on the wrist, they more or less have free reign--and they know it. To paraphrase a soldier who was part of the Tiger Force: "War is the freedom to be as evil as you want to be." The same soldier killed two rice farmers because they looked up from their work as he passed by. His logic was that if they were innocent, they wouldn’t have looked up.

    The Nuremberg Trials set a precedent for war crimes, but many countries simply ignore it.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 18, 2008
  14. I am just looking for a country where I can live in peace and I am not forced to pray to anything or drink poisoned water. Where I can walk around safely without being afraid of someone wanting to lay their hands on me hoping that they can have sex with me... I am fed up and disgusted with men looking at me drooling, without batting an eyelid for half a minute and women staring at me turning green that I am slim and they are not... I wish I could trade shapes with them so they could have all the males staring at me all the and approaching all the time... I cannot get used to it... so I with I could let them have it all... attention and compliments which make my stomach turn upside down and inside out... I would sooner die than letting someone living like animals touch me... I know I should be flirty, cheeky and act like a slut, I know. But I cannot. Men try to approach without knowing what I'm about... I feel naked, they spot me out from an incredibly long distance and all they get from me is a disgusted face... Women hate me and spread gossips because they are envy... envy of what? I am not using my looks for what they would use it... I am trying to be out of the center of attention... I am trying to wear glasses most of the times but that does not stop anyone from staring at my body... I am so disgusted... I envy everyone who can just walk around without grabbing any attention...