I Fucking hate when people say that a person

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Blackbird33, Aug 23, 2012.

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  1. Blackbird33

    Blackbird33 Well-Known Member

    who commits suicide is selfish. It's like being suicidal is a character flaw. Do people not understand that I would love nothing more than to have the emotional fortitude to not let life' setbacks bring me so low. But hearing things like that it just fucking makes me feel even more worthless and especially coming from a so-called friend. I fucking hate living like this.
     
  2. Unloved

    Unloved Member

    I agree with you. People are still thinking about themselves and how THEY will feel without you here.
    In my opinion those who call you selfish for killing yourself are selfish. They are disregarding your pain by
    saying "You're selfish! " - that should NOT be the first thing that comes to a person's mind when a friend or loved one tells them
    they want to kill themselves. Instead, they should think about the reason WHY you feel the way you feel. That shows that they truly do care. However, telling them they're selfish and crap, would make one feel worthless and even worse because it's putting you down still. Who the F wants to hear
    that crap when they're in the state of mind to be thinking of suicide?

    People need to learn to think about the things they are saying and doing. ( Including me. )

    I hope things get better...I know it's cliche. *sigh*
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012
  3. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    There are a number of considerations that should be taken when someone reacts like you described. Firstly, there is simply not enough proper education or awareness about suicide. We have PSA's on TV talking about the dangers of drinking and driving, about how texting while driving is dangerous, and many other things... all good as well... but never any discussion or exposure to suicide related awareness. That might not seem to many people to be such an issue, but more young people die from suicide than they do from drugs, drinking, or texting. Regardless of those statistics, focus remains to revolve only around those other issues with suicide awareness always being some soft of silent taboo we cannot talk about. Further, when I turn on the TV, I often see public service announcements asking us to remember specific soldiers that have died on any given day while in service of our country (USA TV, anyways). It is a shame that anybody has to die, but there is a simple fact that more men and women in our service (USA) die by suicide than they do by combat related. Where are the requests for us to remember them? Where is the awareness?

    This lack of exposure to the general public keeps people from understanding the true root cause issues and circumstances that surround the whole suicide topic. This, in turn, makes people unaware of how to react. They feed off established stigmas simply because they have been shown nothing else to gain understanding from.

    More effort needs to go into educating people about this topic.

    Now from the point of view of someone (friend, family, relative) who cares about you, to them it does feel selfish. It feels selfish to them because of the impact that a suicide death has upon the lives of the loved ones who are left behind. I am one of those and while I do NOT believe it is selfish (only because I have educated myself on this topic), I can see where they may feel that way with the lack of information that most people in the general population have been provided.

    If their reaction makes you hate their reaction, understand that they experience similar feelings that they hate. Nobody wants to have a friend or loved one die by this method. Regardless how someone who is depressed feels, the people around them have feelings also and often they express those in ways that seem uncaring when, in fact, they are rooted in caring thoughts - but just not presented quite right.

    A key to moving toward wellness recovery is to learn first to not become affected by words spoken by others. When in the bowels of depression, it is natural to not understand always that those around us are potentially suffering various emotions themselves. I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it is a point of view that I think is valid.

    Instead of becoming angry at a friend, try to understand that what you are going through is either not fully understood by them, or they simply just don't know how to react. I think it is rare that someone says that and means any real harm from it.

    Just my point of view. We all have excess baggage that we carry around and we don't all always react in a manner conducive to a situation. Again, a lot boils back to a lack of education and understanding about the real root cause of the problems.

    I hope that you feel better.
     
  4. GreyCat

    GreyCat Well-Known Member

    People who say that are the very fortunate people who just don't understand how it really feels to be suicidal.
     
  5. Throwmeawayout

    Throwmeawayout Active Member

    This attitude toward suicide is very common, and if you try hard enough, you can understand why people have it. Having had many years now to think about my own death and the deaths of family members in the past, I like to think I have obtained some wisdom on this subject. I think it is still a valid feeling for loved ones to express to a suicidal friend or family member, despite the fact that it clearly isn't a very understanding attitude.

    The best thing I think you can take away from someone saying that: reverse roles with them. Do you both deeply care for each other? How would you feel if they suddenly left you of their own volition - remember, that's what you might think from the outside looking in.

    The terrible thing about this sentiment is that it often pushes away the person with emotional distress. What Pickwithaustin said cannot be said enough - there needs to be more legitimate education on the subject of suicide. For example, most people still don't know that the risk of suicide is actually greater toward the end of a period of depression. Just as a person seems to be getting better, they may actually be making plans.

    Similar ignorance prevails on the issue of love and suicide, which creates this view of suicide you are posting about. The loved ones do not understand that you don't actually want to leave them behind. Without having experienced similar pain themselves, their empathy for your situation isn't yet fully developed. They love and care, but they don't yet comprehend.

    If you can reach out to them and help them really understand, it may help you both. Conversely, those of us with loved ones who are suicidal need to try to be more understanding of what is going on for them. I can only look back and wish that understanding always came in time.
     
  6. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    Selfish?

    You know what's selfish? Happy people who go on with their happy lives, ignoring the pain and suffering of others around them. That's what's selfish.
     
  7. boomer88

    boomer88 New Member

    I can't say I know how you feel personally. But I am the sister of somebody who did feel that low. And as his sister I feel so horrible for not knowing until it was too late how my poor baby brother must have felt. Please hang on. Please hang on for your family. It does get better. I promise you it does. Please talk to somebody. Please get help. There are people out there who are willing to listen.
    -Boomer
     
  8. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    What would you say to someone whose family doesn't care about him?

    Now you're just being dishonest. Perhaps not intentionally so, but you can't guarantee that things will get better for anybody.
     
  9. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    Nor can you guarantee that things will not get better. By ending your life, you terminate any chances of finding out if they do get better or not. I was in Las Vegas once and I was playing a slot machine. I was losing and so I moved on (I don't gamble much and so did not lose a lot... maybe $15 in quarters). I went down about 5 machines and someone else stepped up to the machine I was on and after a few quarters, they hit a pretty heavy payout. This is not an equal comparison, I realize that... but, my point is that you never know what will happen. I could have stayed there and lost every penny that I had. Or, I could have been the one with the big payout. A slot machine, no big deal, but you only get one life and there has to always be a way to try to struggle on, to set goals and plans, and to at the very least hope for a better future.

    As for a family that doesn't care - I think the first step in having others care for one self is to first care about one self. Don't be fooled that everyone around you is going on with their happy lives. Everyone has their own misery and issues. Depression does not just afflict those who have nothing, it affects those who have it all as well. We see that frequently. People may not be ignoring the pain around them, they may be working hard to contain their own.
     
  10. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    I agree with you Blackbird..... my attempt would have become common knowledge amongst my in-law family...... who totally did not know how to react apart from to put all the blame onto me - of course, that's what "the other side" would do, to protect themselves, I understand that now.
    However, an aunt who we don't see that often said in the course of conversation many years later...... that exact thing "it's the most selfish thing someone can do, is to commit suicide" - and that hurt, because she could have had no idea of the pressures, even less of a willingness to try to find out and perhaps to understand. She herself had had a wonderful career and a successful life and had never been faced with my predicament, so it is easy for people like that to throw out their judgements on us "not so "fortunates" " - it's just another way of saying "I am so glad that I am strong enough not to ever have had need to think about that - what's the matter with YOU!?"

    However, I chose to brush off her comment, taking note of what the underlying motive was, and having compassion on her for feeling the need to put me down like that. It's ignorance really, that makes them say that - that and a need to feel better about themselves and their "moral superior strength", when they do not know the whole story and have just made assumptions.
     
  11. youRprecious!

    youRprecious! Antiquities Friend

    I agree with you PWA - both your posts contain great wisdom :)
     
  12. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member

    You're right, and I don't dispute that. Hence why I have not taken my life yet. If I truly believed that there was no way my life would ever get better, I would have committed suicide a long time ago. I know that it's possible. I just don't think it's right or fair for people to make promises, because there are no guarantees in life.
     
  13. Unloved

    Unloved Member

    Also people pretending to care because they feel like it's the "right thing to do" .. eventually through one's actions, the suicidal person will learn they don't care which is sad.
     
  14. Unloved

    Unloved Member

    You know... " Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get. "

    Most people say that " If you kill yourself, you might not have a chance to know if it will get better or not... "
    People, coming from a good place say these things and they will be right. However, take starving children or people
    living in countries with no money to get out of the situation. Clearly, their lives will not get better, unless they get lucky and get some help.
    Thousands of people die everyday from starvation and I highly doubt if ALL of them waited their life out that ALL of them would be saved.
    My point can be proven true with the state of the world today. People are still starving and will continue to starve because that is just the world we live in.

    My point is, your life might get better and then again it might not. Whether it be your own thoughts putting you in this hell, or the people around you, life's path is very unpredictable.
    I've been depressed my whole life and have gone through continuous cycles of thinking about killing myself, and back when I was 14 people told me "Wait, things will get better."

    I am now 22 and things are WORSE. So, that wasn't true. I did whatever I could to be happy and it still doesn't work. And the ONLY REASON I haven't killed myself yet is because I'm SCARED of the afterlife. I'm afraid of where I will end up if I did kill myself. I was raised on a religious upbringing and even though I am no longer religious, it is still deep rooted in me. If it weren't for that, I probably would have died a year ago. Also, at the moment, I am not necessarily "suicidal" - However if a natural disaster like a hurricane were to come along, ( which it is. ) - I would not get out of harms way because I don't care.

    But anyways, to get back to the topic,
    In my opinion, the bottom line is life sucks for some people and life doesn't for others. Life is totally unpredictable and so instead of saying "hold on, things will get better" - I just tell folks I HOPE life changes for the better and that I can understand and relate to them.

    I feel like a lot of people lie to others or feed them with a spoon just because they think it will help, but lying and beating around the bush is not going to help a suicidal or depressed person. Their mindset or their situation has to change somehow.

    I believe in the 100% truth, whether it is foul or not. You don't want to make a person feel worse, but at the same time you don't want them to believe in a false hope because the greater the hope, the greater the pain.

    After awhile to us suicidal folks, " Things will get better " just doesn't mean as much anymore. Especially when things have been the same way for years.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2012
  15. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    I think the key words here though is that "thousands of people die every day from starvation." Those people do not die from suicide, they die from starvation. Even in their plight, their hunger and their pain, I think that a majority of them try hanging on and they are not considering suicide... they are just trying to survive at any cost. I used to think that people who had lesser situations (bad living conditions, no money, no food, etc.) were the most likely to be victims of suicide, but I don't think that is the case. I see people who have everything choose suicide as well as those who have nothing, so I don't think that those kind of things are necessarily a factor in such a decision. I guess that if we understood it all completely, though, there would be a "cure," so to speak, and there wouldn't be any more.

    Perhaps a better phrase to say instead of, "Things will get better," would be... "Things can get better." Substituting the "can" for the "will" seems to resolve the word issue, but it's really all just semantics.

    The key, in my opinion, to reducing suicide rates is a combination of early detection, maintenance, and UNDERSTANDING. Unfortunately, not enough emphasis is given to learning and teaching suicide awareness and too often suicide is looked down upon (which results in people making statements that are based more upon the accepted stigma rather than based upon a true understanding of root cause). I think the root cause is different for every body, but if people could make suicide less of a hidden taboo and more of an open discussion, there might be more opportunities for people to seek out help early in the suicidal thought process and there might then be more methods available for prevention.
     
  16. Blackbird33

    Blackbird33 Well-Known Member

    This is why I keep to myself because people either don't understand or they'll judge and say something "oh you're just going through a tough time you'll get over it".

    I know some people in this thread are trying to be positive and say it will get better. But it doesn't always get better or it'll get much much worse before it gets better. The only way I see things getting better is if I become numb and just accept this lonely existence.
     
  17. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    Things can only get better when you believe yourself that they will get better.
    People will only really care after you first really care first about yourself.

    These are two points that I think are very important ones to make and they hold the real power of starting on a path or true wellness.
     
  18. gxblu44

    gxblu44 Member

    This a raw, abrasive, searing point for me. It tells me that someone not only doesn't understand but is also refusing to understand why someone would be pushed to suicide. In fact, yes, they are feeling self-justified while the afflicted gets to hold the burden of shame/guilt/worthlessness, etc. Fact of the matter is once the burden becomes to much eventually you break, self will is no longer going to work.
    What they don't realize is it there is an equation. You have the severity of how you feel (A) times the portion of your life you have been this way(B)-divided by the effectiveness of the help you have sought (C) equals your answer. "A" times "B" divided by "C"
    For me the answer is obvious.
    I once was told to go and "do it" by someone who actually lost a brother to suicide. So, if there's one piece of advice I can give it's don't ever rely on or trust drunks even if they are sober and following a program. Then they can really be dangerous because they feel self justified because they overcame THEIR issue so why don't you overcome yours..?
    I was surprised though that a true professional, a counselor or therapist who can lend understanding and compassion, but also corrective advice CAN HELP. Somebody to tell you your thinking needs to change but can show you HOW. It probably won't be a lazy psychiatrist but an actual therapist. Stay away from the self appointed experts as mentioned above.
    Fact is Pickwithaustin is completely correct. Society doesn't understand and doesn't seem to want to understand. All we are expected to do is suffer quietly so as to not be an embarrassment or burden.
    Does somebody diagnosed with Cancer get treated this way? (maybe a smoker with lung cancer) but we didn't go out and ask to be this way. "Oh, you have Colon Cancer? Do you know what a mess that is? How expensive? YOU'RE SO SELFISH! HOW COULD YOU DO THIS TO US??!!
    Like I said that equation is pretty simple and convincing to me sometimes. And if it gets me away from those people who already have the answers to a question they don't understand than it really gets to be a dangerous thing to consider.
    Will it get better? Somebody somewhere has gotten over this I guess.
    But Pickwithaustin is correct above it starts with an action on our own behalf to get started, to show we are willing. Aside from this forum and a therapist that is many miles away, I have to consider other means available. But finding people willing to admit they consider suicide, there is alot of shame and they don't readily want to admit it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2012
  19. lelantgirl

    lelantgirl Well-Known Member

    Hey Blackbird33- I have heard this SO MANY TIMES and its the people who say this who have NO IDEA how it is for us, we dont CHOOSE to be suicidal or/and self harm........we would sooner be happy and contented and have a good life...........unfortunately things have happened hey and we are suffering.
    I have learnt to say 'stuff those of you who dont know and say its selfish'.....................its not selfish, and its about time people got their heads out the sand...........or out their own tiny backsides!!!!!!!!!!!............................Hang in there, I am by a very thin thread................I know youre not selfish, hold onto that. Much love and understanding care. xx
     
  20. lelantgirl

    lelantgirl Well-Known Member

    Hi again, just to add......... I have had the very uhelpful platitudes about getting over it..........its taken a long time to block it out, but now I do things my way and how I feel I can cope.
    I am very much like you in that I keep to myself also...............please know I am genuine and not patronising you.
    Send me a private message anytime if you feel you need someone to offload on. xx
     
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