I want the peace of death. Is that so difficult to understand?

[Valteron]

The reason I am on this forum is that I have been banned from the Chat. I found another chat that was very open and accepting, a site that accepted the right of people to choose death over life, but for some reason it was closed down a few days after I told people on this site about it. Probably just a coincidence.

My reasons for wanting to self-liberate are simple. I am bored, disgusted and worn out with life and by life. All I want is the peace of death. I have lived decades with my obsessive-compulsive disorder and with my endless anxiety. Do you remember Prometheus in the Greek legend who was tied to a rock and had a vulture eating out his liver for all eternity? That is how I feel. Anxiety and fear will never leave me alone. They will eat out my guts until I close my eyes in death.

On the outside, my life seems fine. I have a good lifestyle, and all I need. But all I am doing is a very convincing imitation of a sane person. That is how I keep ourt of the skull ranch. I keep it to myself and I don't tell anyone that every waking moment is spent with my guts twisted in a knot by anxiety.

I buy a luxury car and I spend the next year worrying that something is wrong with it. I go on a fabulous vacation and I don't enjoy a moment of it because everything has me worried. I feel anxiety from the moment I wake up to the moment I take a pill to get to sleep.

PLEASE DO NOT TELL ME TO SEE A PSYCHIATRIST OR TO SEEK PROFESSIONAL HELP! I have been seeing professionals for more than 50 years now.

Look, there are some cancers or other diseases that can't be cured, right? Is it soooo unbelievable that there are some mental illnesses that psychiatrists can't cure?

There are over 6 billion people on this overcrowded planet and one of them wants off, because his mind is defective and incapable of happiness.

Is that so much to want? The peace of death?

 

[total eclipse]

YOu want PEACE i get that but death bring nothing so you will not even get that peace you are looking for You do not know what the future will bring you do not know what new break throughs they will have for hard to treat anxiety or depression you can obtain skills to help you cope it is possible but you have to work at that to make it happen There have been many here that have move on and have won the battle with their illness they have stabilzed and got their lives back to the point they can function again.

I hear you i want peace to i want the pain to end the sadness to end but taking ones life brings nothing hun hugs to you

 

[Valteron]

YOu want PEACE i get that but death bring nothing so you will not even get that peace you are looking for You do not know what the future will bring you do not know what new break throughs they will have for hard to treat anxiety or depression you can obtain skills to help you cope it is possible but you have to work at that to make it happen There have been many here that have move on and have won the battle with their illness they have stabilzed and got their lives back to the point they can function again.

I hear you i want peace to i want the pain to end the sadness to end but taking ones life brings nothing hun hugs to you

I realize that death is nothingness, and that the dead cannot feel relief. It is a question of three options.

Option 1 is the most desirable. Option 1 is to live without fear and anxiety, to have a happy life like a normal person. But after trying and failing for 50 years, is it not time to give up on that option?

So what are the other two?

One option is to consider continuing to be a smiling clown who is tortured inside by anxiety and will be until the day he dies.

Another option is to move up the day of death by a few decades.

No, of course you do not feel relief when you are dead. YOU DO NOT FEEL ANYTHING! Which is what makes it better than the other option. The dead feel nothing, so they feel no anxiety. When is the last time a corpse complained that he stayed up all night worrying?

 

[total eclipse]

Again i hear you want peace and it is attainable right now you do not see that but it is look at the people who have strived for years and then after 50 yrs finally obtained relieve through new medication through new therapy You cannot tell me you have tried every therapy there is out there every medication that has be introduced just in past few years There is help and there is hope but you don't see it because you are to much in the darkness
Keep posting look at the post where people have moved on have won this battle then you will see it is attainable.

 

[Angie]

Valteron, I'm a bit late on this thread, but hope you'll see it.

I am not that much younger than you and its been a struggle for so many years I've lost count. Endless med changes and personal research into what will help me. Doctors, therapists and hospitals, oh my!

I get tired and frustrated too. Living with a mental illness is a tough road for anyone, and when the battle extends over decades we get angry and feel hopeless. I too suffer from med resistant problems, although I get some relief from current combination. So I hear you there.

Peace. I don't think peace comes from dying. I think it comes from peace with ourselves. To somehow come to terms with ourselves. And there is no magical pill or therapy that does that. I've come to accept that.

Which leaves me with me. Ultimately that is where we all end up.

I suppose for me anyway, I am trying to figure out what I am getting from how I am feeling/doing, as I believe we do things for a reason whether we know that reason or not.

I know you've been frustrated in chat as well as on the forum. For that I am sorry. I know I have frustrated you in chat. But I have a job to do to maintain peace and enforce the rules. And no, I don't think a yellow hug smilie solves everything, and I know it does annoy some, but I think of it as a way to convey empathy to others.

I hope that you continue to fight to find the answers to life and not to choose the alternative.

 

[Valteron]

Valteron, I'm a bit late on this thread, but hope you'll see it.

I am not that much younger than you and its been a struggle for so many years I've lost count. Endless med changes and personal research into what will help me. Doctors, therapists and hospitals, oh my!

I get tired and frustrated too. Living with a mental illness is a tough road for anyone, and when the battle extends over decades we get angry and feel hopeless. I too suffer from med resistant problems, although I get some relief from current combination. So I hear you there.

Peace. I don't think peace comes from dying. I think it comes from peace with ourselves. To somehow come to terms with ourselves. And there is no magical pill or therapy that does that. I've come to accept that.

Which leaves me with me. Ultimately that is where we all end up.

I suppose for me anyway, I am trying to figure out what I am getting from how I am feeling/doing, as I believe we do things for a reason whether we know that reason or not.

I know you've been frustrated in chat as well as on the forum. For that I am sorry. I know I have frustrated you in chat. But I have a job to do to maintain peace and enforce the rules. And no, I don't think a yellow hug smilie solves everything, and I know it does annoy some, but I think of it as a way to convey empathy to others.

I hope that you continue to fight to find the answers to life and not to choose the alternative.

Kitty: There is a very simple equation if you want to look at this logically. I am willing to admit that my mental illness MIGHT respond to some treatment I do not yet know about. But fair is fair, Kitty. Are YOU willing to admit that I might just live the next 20 years (or whatever I have left) being this crazy, depressed and anxious (or even get worse in old age)? In which case, convincing me of the pro-life viewpoint would have accomplished nothing but to sentence me to another 20 years of misery? Kind of cruel when you think about it.

Your idea that I should not CTB is based on an unwritten assumption that things must get better if I can hang in there. Who says they will?

 

[Angie]

Actually I wonder the same thing about myself. Will I get better than I am now? Also, for me, my financial situation will go critical in a couple of years. Not to mention my mother died of Alzheimers.

Actually the question I ask myself is if the simple things that I do enjoy are worth it. Snuggling with the cat, making cookies, reading a good book.

For me, the answer is yes. I can't be sure what the future hold for me or you, but I know I enjoy these things today, and will work with what I've got.

I just believe in life. Maybe that is simple-minded, but I believe in living, and pointing myself towards a better future.

 

[lachrymose27]

well written.

 

[Valteron]

Actually I wonder the same thing about myself. Will I get better than I am now? Also, for me, my financial situation will go critical in a couple of years. Not to mention my mother died of Alzheimers.

Actually the question I ask myself is if the simple things that I do enjoy are worth it. Snuggling with the cat, making cookies, reading a good book.

For me, the answer is yes. I can't be sure what the future hold for me or you, but I know I enjoy these things today, and will work with what I've got.

I just believe in life. Maybe that is simple-minded, but I believe in living, and pointing myself towards a better future.

So what? I can point myself towards a $5 million penthouse or a Rolls Royce, but that doesn't mean I will get them. Do you know where the word "Polyanna" comes from? She was the heroine of horrible books written for children in the 1st half of the 20th century. No matter what happened, Polyanna saw the bright side. One time someone stole her Christmas presents and left a pair of crutches in their place. Instead of being depressed, Polyanna declared this was the best present ever, because just thinking that she didn't need the crutches made her happy.

Kitty, do you see how that kind of cock-eyed optimism can get sickening?

Every day I am alive, I am wasting valuable time I could be no longer suffering.

 

[Angie]

Interesting that you refer to physical possessions. Possessions will not make anyone happy.

And I have shared my heart with you on this. Only to be called Pollyanna.

Rather be Pollyanna than Eeyore.

I wish you well.

 

[Valteron]

And I have shared my heart with you on this. Only to be called Pollyanna.

Rather be Pollyanna than Eeyore.

I wish you well.

Sorry, Kitty. I guess you did open your heart to me. I shouldn't have said what I said.

In some senses I am lucky. For example, I doubt if I will have any financial worries any time in the future, and you see financial problems looming in your future.

I think you are a nice person, Kitty, and that is what makes me so angry at life. You see, hearing about the problems of others does not make me feel better about my own. On the contrary, I hate life even more for all its unfairness.

When I get mean and agressive with people like you, Kitty, it is not really you I am yelling at. It is injustice. I also enjoy snuggling my two cats. But when I yell names like Polyanna at people what I guess I am trying to say is: "Stop being so nice and taking comfort in snuggling the cat, and get mad as hell that life has treated a wonderful person like you so horribly."

Just a viewpont for what it is worth. I admire your devotion in hanging around the chat room moderating so much, for example. It is not you I hate, it is the fact that life sucks.

 

[tmostna]

No, of course you do not feel relief when you are dead. YOU DO NOT FEEL ANYTHING! Which is what makes it better than the other option. The dead feel nothing, so they feel no anxiety.

Are you not concerned that there may be some sort of spiritual price to pay by committing self-murder?

 

[Valteron]

Are you not concerned that there may be some sort of spiritual price to pay by committing self-murder?

No, not in the least! I have never seen any proof that there exists a god or an afterlife. By the way, which god do you believe in: the trinitarian God of the the Christians, or Allah, or the Hindu Gods? Or do you believe in one of the several hundred gods that were once believed in by millions of people and have now been discarded like Osiris or Thor or Zeus?

I know that Islam and Christianity believe suicides will receive horrible punishments in an afterlife. This makes me feel that their god is a bully and a monster. People who killed themselves were sad, tormented and could no longer stand the life that your alleged God had given them. So now this monster in the sky is going to torture them for all eternity because they were misreable on Earth?

Can you imagine a legal system on Earth that would provide that people who attempt suicide will be subject to years and years of horrible torture? Would you not consider that barbaric and heartless in the extreme?

If life is a gift, I should be allowed to return it.

 

[In a Lonely Place]

No, not in the least! I have never seen any proof that there exists a god or an afterlife. By the way, which god do you believe in: the trinitarian God of the the Christians, or Allah, or the Hindu Gods? Or do you believe in one of the several hundred gods that were once believed in by millions of people and have now been discarded like Osiris or Thor or Zeus?

I know that Islam and Christianity believe suicides will receive horrible punishments in an afterlife. This makes me feel that their god is a bully and a monster. People who killed themselves were sad, tormented and could no longer stand the life that your alleged God had given them. So now this monster in the sky is going to torture them for all eternity because they were misreable on Earth?

If life is a gift, I should be allowed to return it.

Thankyou,I agree 100% with that but I think you expressed it in a way I wouldn't have been able to without upsetting people with faith.
I didn't choose to be born and should be able to make the ultimate choice without being told I'm gonna suffer in hell for eternity.

 

[Angie]

Thanks Valteron, I appreciate what you have said. I understand you a bit more for it. It is always good to understand each other.

Actually, yes I do get angry from time to time about my situation and the situations of those I meet here. Many times life is so unfair.

For me, the anger is best routed into doing something positive for myself, even if its a simple as a bath. But I am mostly sad about the suffering in the world, so many people do suffer. And I think of so many people who don't even have the luxury of internet access to reach out to others for support and help.

I hope you are well.

 

[tmostna]

No, not in the least! I have never seen any proof that there exists a god or an afterlife. By the way, which god do you believe in: the trinitarian God of the the Christians, or Allah, or the Hindu Gods? Or do you believe in one of the several hundred gods that were once believed in by millions of people and have now been discarded like Osiris or Thor or Zeus?

I know that Islam and Christianity believe suicides will receive horrible punishments in an afterlife. This makes me feel that their god is a bully and a monster. People who killed themselves were sad, tormented and could no longer stand the life that your alleged God had given them. So now this monster in the sky is going to torture them for all eternity because they were misreable on Earth?

I did not mention any God.

If you look at my earlier posts you will see I am not religious.

I just feel that however certain you are of your beliefs, whether it is that there is nothing after death or otherwise, no-one actually knows.

Logically, it is just as foolish to insist that there isn't a God or an afterlife, as to insist there is, without a certain knowledge one way or the other.

 

[lightbeam]

I did not mention any God.

If you look at my earlier posts you will see I am not religious.

I just feel that however certain you are of your beliefs, whether it is that there is nothing after death or otherwise, no-one actually knows.

Logically, it is just as foolish to insist that there isn't a God or an afterlife, as to insist there is, without a certain knowledge one way or the other.

I've been dead three minutes. After my latest attempt. Trust me, there is nothing.

 

[tmostna]

I've been dead three minutes. After my latest attempt. Trust me, there is nothing.

Let's just say I don't share your definition of the word 'dead'.

 

[Valteron]

I just feel that however certain you are of your beliefs, whether it is that there is nothing after death or otherwise, no-one actually knows.

Logically, it is just as foolish to insist that there isn't a God or an afterlife, as to insist there is, without a certain knowledge one way or the other.

Sorry, tmostna, but you are violating the rules of logic when you say that. You are making the error of assuming that he who asserts something and he who denies something both bear the same burden of proof. That is like saying that those who believe in fairies and those who don't have equally valid points of view.

The rule is that "He who asserts must prove." And another rule of logic is that "extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof".

It is up to those who assert something is true to prove it. Until someone comes up with evidence for what they claim, the "default" position is that we have no reason to believe what they claim.

I must admit I made one mistake in what I said. Logically, I cannot say that I know there is no god or afterlife. What I should have said is that I have no evidence to suggest that a god exists or that life goes on after the biological death of the body.

Many people retort: "You can't prove god (or the afterlife) doesn't exist!" That is not a valid argument. If you follow that argument to its logical extent, anything anyone claims would have to be accepted as true until it can be disproven. We would go crazy trying to reason that way. Someone tells you that sticking your finger in a live electric socket prevents cancer. Would you be obliged to believe them until you can prove them wrong? Would we have to ask thousands of volunteers to stick their fingers in a socket and then monitor the incidence of cancer among them over the next several decades before we could deny this claim? Or should we not just ask the person making the claim to prove it, if he can?

You cannot ask people to prove the nonexistence of something. Okay, I can probably prove that there is not a full-grown elephant living in my coffee cup, because I can see the whole of my coffee cup and because we agree on the dimensions of an elephant, but generaly speaking you cannot prove things do not exist.

I cannot, for example, prove that there are no Leprechauns in Ireland. I would have to be able to see every square centimetre of Ireland AT THE SAME INSTANT, as well as underground and in the clouds above the island. Even then, someone could claim the wee folk are there but can make themselves invisible. Just like people claim god is invisible.

I cannot prove there is no Bigfoot or Loch Ness Monster.

Luckily, I do not need to prove any of these things. It is up to those who claim they exist to prove that they do.

Of course I keep an open mind. But an open mind is not an open sewer. An open mind means I am willing to hear the evidence, judge its probationary value, and change my mind if the evidence is convincing.

So what evidence do you have that any part of me will survive my biological death?

 

[Valteron]

I've been dead three minutes. After my latest attempt. Trust me, there is nothing.

I must agree with tmostna concerning the definition of "dead". Medicine defines death as a condition that is final and irreversible. So by definition, if you are now alive, your condition was not irreversible, no matter how many death-like features you exhibited.