If there is no hereafter.....

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by tmostna, Sep 25, 2011.

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  1. tmostna

    tmostna Active Member

    .....how will you know you are dead?

    I know it's a philosophical point, but contemplation of that question leads me, as one who has carefully considered suicide (see earlier posts) to a pro-living answer.

    Put it this way. Is there is a hereafter, in any sense, then self-murder can only bring you more trouble, more bad karma to deal with.
    You were given a role to play - you cheated and opted out early.

    If there isn't an afterlife, then as you will no longer be conscious, you cannot be aware that you are dead.

    Bit of a headf*ck I know, but it's just meant as a pause for thought.

    Whatever our beliefs or the ultimate 'truth', isn't it better to let nature take it's course in the same way it did when you came into this world?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2011
  2. Hoasis

    Hoasis Well-Known Member

    But what if there is life after death? What if your organs and body goes into the dirt, turns into bacterias, then some creatures or humans eat it, and it will turn into another baby or animal, and that lifew turns out to be perfect? Why suffer when you have the chance to live a good life after death? Its so many what if's
  3. Severijn

    Severijn Well-Known Member

    I'm absolutely sure there is a heaven, but getting there is tricky I think.

    I imagine heaven to be a timeless and spaceless (mental) state of eternal blissfulness. That's where I want to go, that's the only thing that makes sense. All suffering comes from space and time. But again, I must live a pretty good life to get there, and some say suicide is a sin. I don't know about that.

    Btw, do you belief in reincarnation and karma? Because these concepts/realities don't make sense in the heaven worldview.

    When I write this I realize these questions matter a lot when you are depressed during a contemplative period in life. Many people who have active jobs and a fun social life ask these questions less than unhappy people. Just reminds me to keep improving my life.

    But I just know when the lights go out on earth, a new Light will shine from heaven. Just how to get there, that's the question.
  4. tmostna

    tmostna Active Member

    I would say that in your scenario - the life that turns out to be perfect isn't yours.

    It's true that all matter is reused - every atom in our bodies has existed since time began.

    But if there is spiritual life after death - it's hard to imagine anything good would come out of self destruction.
  5. Joshua2803

    Joshua2803 Well-Known Member

    Assuming that you believe we where created, the creator would know if life exist after death. He knows the truth and he tells us plainly that "the dead are conscience of nothing at all." Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10. Also Psalms 146:4 The bible teaches that the dead will be brought back to life. John 5:28,29 confirms this. Until that time they only exist in the memory of the creator. His name is Jehovah- Psalms 83:18. Life is so full of problems that many find it hard to go on. Our creator has plans to establish a government or Kingdom on earth that will wipe away the suffering and Pain that we all experience now. This is not a man made government. Jesus taught us to pray for that government or Kingdom in the Lord's Prayer. "Let your Kingdom come, let your will take as in heaven also upon earth."-Matthew 6:10.
  6. Aaron

    Aaron Well-Known Member

    My thoughts too.
  7. rory

    rory New Member

    I imagine death to be total blankness completely absent of memory of what went before and probably any self awareness of what you are at the present. This is what is appealing to me. It just seems to be a total relief as it's memory of what has happened before and awareness of what I am at the moment is what is making me completely depressed and unable to properly enjoy life. My girlfriend doesn't know how bad it's got for me, my mother doesn't know how bad it's got for me, no-one knows. They both suffer from depression themselves and I don't want to put anymore sorrow in their path. So I won't commit suicide. But this means I am unable to die and I am unable to live. So I am just I am just constantly pretending I am OK, but people notice but just think I am a miserable sod. I try and get better but the shitness of events in my life keep making me miserable. It's not just a passing thing, I remember leaning out my bedroom window when I was 11 considering suicide. If I known I would be in the same state at 22, I probably would have jumped. (The height probably wouldn't have been enough to kill me)
  8. Speedy

    Speedy Staff Alumni

    Welcome, rory. I feel suicidal sometimes too. I can relate to some of what you said. All the best...Alex
  9. passingthrough

    passingthrough Active Member

    This is something I was thinking about awhile ago, whilst being deeply suicidal. I am not religious, so do not believe there will be an afterlife, which shapes how I think about this.

    The thing is you can't imagine being dead, because it is a nothingness. We are so attached to our own cognitions that the very idea that they will be no more is odd, foreign and strange. There will be no guilt. There will be no regrets. There will be no possibilities.

    It is not even that the thought is disturbing or distressing, but more that it is odd (a headf*ck as you said). I struggle to get my head around the idea of nothing. You can’t visualise nothing. You can’t describe nothing. I have accepted death as inevitable, but despite what I may think it is not something I want. You can’t want nothing. You can want to escape from unbearable torment and agony, but that is not the same as wanting nothing.

    But then I think of those I know who have died and they are not nothing. They are an amalgamation of memories and stories. They live on for a little while, another lifetime, because the survivors remember them. But when I die I will be nothing. Odd.

    I want to die, but intellectually that makes no sense. I have no answer for this conundrum, but it intrigues me.
  10. tmostna

    tmostna Active Member

    That is a very interesting and eloquent take on the subject.

    Maybe there is a middle ground in the journey from life to death, in the same way there is on our arrival - journeying from conception to birth via the womb.

    NDE stories are fascinating in this regard, as are those World religions and philosophies that favor reincarnation.

    In 'The Tibetan Book of The Dead' ( I highly recommend anyone to read this or listen to the audiobook) it describes such a journey to beyond and up to the point of reincarnation or enlightenment.

    It claims that one's spirit often doesn't realize that it has left the psychical body for some time, until it relaizes it can no longer be seen by or communicate with the living.

    A little hard to get your head around but no stranger than some of the other beliefs out there.

    I wouldn't claim to be a Buddhist and as I have said I am not religious, but I do like the core message of the book, which is a little too complex to go into fully, but is definitively worth a read/listen.
  11. BeautifullyChaotic

    BeautifullyChaotic Well-Known Member

    I hope there is no afterlife, I want nothingness, to simply cease to exist.
  12. zmonkey

    zmonkey Member

    I follow a more Buddhist way of thinking when it comes to the afterlife. So, of course, I also believe in karma and the "weight of one's deeds." I believe in it simply because I must. Because to think that there was only human wisdom as a means to identify the right and wrong of the world would be unbearable. So, I end up seeing suicide as a means to "speed up the process" of karmic come-uppin's, as it were. I don't recall seeing anything about suicide necessarily putting a lot of karma in my bucket, but I'm sure some different Buddhist paths must mention something about it. Anyway, in my mind, suicide is neutral in terms of karma. Thus, my decision to live or die is based largely on my impression of what side of the scale I'm on. I'm most certainly NOT enlightened. Thus, I've got some amount of karmic balance to work off, and I can't do that if I'm not alive... I'd really prefer to come back as a human, and would hate to think that my unwillingness to deal with what I was dealt in this life could possibly put me further down on the food chain...
  13. Entoloma43

    Entoloma43 Well-Known Member

    There is no afterlife. Being dead is just like how it was before you were born.

    As Mark Twain said: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
  14. passingthrough

    passingthrough Active Member

    Great quote!
  15. tmostna

    tmostna Active Member

    That is funny - and clever, typical Mark Twain. :)

    When you examine it though, being dead and not existing are two different things.
  16. In a Lonely Place

    In a Lonely Place Well-Known Member

    Absolutely I'd hate to go through all this crap again,I just want it to be like a light switch being flicked off and nothing more
  17. Moat

    Moat Banned Member

    While it is human nature to want to believe in something after death, I personally don't think about or care that much about it. Death is death and it will come soon enough. The thing that matters most is what you do while alive.
  18. Banquo

    Banquo Member

    Shakespear put it best - "the undiscovered country" that he talks aboutt in hamlet. None of us know what is next.
  19. zmonkey

    zmonkey Member

    Yes, and that's it exactly. Why spend our limited time here worrying about what happens when it's over? What matters is that someday it WILL be over, and whatever it is that exists on the other side is guaranteed to be a lot different than how things are now. I don't feel that an afterlife should provide our instruction for how we should live. Those sorts of lessons are right here at this very moment, we don't have to look to the future for them.
  20. IntoTheWoods

    IntoTheWoods Guest

    I guess I just don't look that far ahead. For me it is not the case that I am looking for something better or different, I just want the pain I am experiencing now to stop and it is difficult to see alternatives.
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