I'm scared of myself (warning may trigger)

[MLKane]

Do you ever feel like you have an animal inside you just waiting to be let out?

I'm going to try and keep this not too graphic, hopefully it won't be beyond site rules.

So yes, I'm scared of myself. Not the sense that I'm scared of cutting or scared of killing myself, I'm used to that. I'm just waiting for some courage to follow through with that. No, I'm scared of myself because of what I think I might become if I didn't work as hard as I do at self control.

Now Iive accumulated a lot of anger over the years, fair enough as far as things go, but starting about a year, year and a half ago, this anger has started to spill over into rage. Now everything gets me angry, big things, small things, good things and trivial things. And it's not just normal old anger anymore, that smolders away inside of me. It's morphed into a white hot spill of rage that threatens to drown me and immolate everyone and everything around me.

I'm not saying that to be overdramatic either, because the way in which my anger boils over is uncontrollable hatred of whatever happens to be on my mind at the time, and the graphic and enticing fantasies of killing everyone. Not just people who annoy me, everyone, everyone I love, everone I hate, people I don't even know, I just see them and my mind shows me several violent and bloody ways in which I could end them. I can't control it, I can barely hide it or contain it, I just see someone, anyone, and my brain just tells me to make them suffer, to make them feel my pain.

This is fucking terrifying. I start to believe that people don't matter anymore, that they're just things. I've caught myself referring to people as "it" and "that", as if they were objects. I've also found myself unconsciously reaching to hurt people as I talk to them, twisting my arms as if to break their necks as I hug them. This scares and disgusts me. It's like I've got this creature inside me and all it wants is to make to world bleed.

I've had to start strictly following a set of rules, just to stay in control. I have to stop myself from doing stuff that most people wouldn't even consider doing. I don't allow myself to be alone in a room with any animal, because I know that the constraints that make me fight my compulsion to hurt people are no where near as strong with animals. I have to get up and physically leave a room if I become too angry, no matter where I am, I force myself to compliment someone who is pissing me off so I have to think of something positive about them instead of how good it would feel to end their life.

I'm just terrified that one day the rules won't be enough, the self control I have built up over the years will break and I will do something horrible. I can't afford to break, because I know that if I do then I'll end up doing something that won't just be local news, it'll be world wide front page. And not in a good way. My dreams are filled with other people's screams and I can't go to some professional because guess what? Either they'll dismiss me which will cause me to snap or they'll drug me up and lock me away like some animal.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm suicidal because of the shit that's happened to me and how I feel, or just because something in me knows it'll be much better for me to die that for me to hurt someone that I love. I try so hard to be a good person, to the point where I will put myself through emotional torture to try and help someone, where I will ignore my problems no matter how bad I feel to try and help someone else, and I feel so guilty when someone tries to help me because on the one hand I want to feel better. But on the other hand I know that I don't deserve help, that deep down I'm not a good person. I'm a sick monster who should be put down.

 

[AlienBeing]

There's an app for that. It's called anger management classes. You might want to look into finding some.

 

[MLKane]

There's an app for that. It's called anger management classes. You might want to look into finding some.

really? it didn't occur to you that I haven't tried? I'm angry, not stupid. Anger management councillor at school laughed me off as bullshitting him.

 

[lostbutnotfound]

Hey,

Please don't mock me or get mad at me.. I'm just gonna try and help. If you don't agree with my ideas, or think they won't work for you, that's fine, I understand, but please try and remember that everyone here is struggling, and aren't experts, and are doing their best.

To be honest, I can't begin to imagine how hard this must be for you, on a day-in day-out basis. I'm not going to bullshit you by telling you I understand.. I can't completely. However, I can try and empathize. Have you tried keeping a mood diary? Even if it's hour by hour, as your mood changes, your anger builds, then diminishes.. I don't know, I thought maybe you could give it a try, and then take it to your doctor. They won't lock you away, as right now you are rational about it, you can repress the anger (even though you think that after a while this may become impossible), and while you can still talk about it rationally they will see that. They may give you medication, but if you explain your fears of being 'drugged' they will monitor it carefully and should have regular reviews with you to discuss your medication. They may also refer you to some sort of therapy.. with a doctors referral they won't laugh you out the door, and they should take you seriously.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I hope they help

 

[AlienBeing]

really? it didn't occur to you that I haven't tried? I'm angry, not stupid. Anger management councillor at school laughed me off as bullshitting him.

Did it not occur to you that I'm not a mind reader? You didn't say you have tried anger management so how would I know that? And why not try it again if you didn't get it the first time? Maybe you're a slow learner. What about meditation or yoga or something like that to calm you down? Or are you going to snap at me again about hasn't it occurred to me that you've already tried it? Well no, actually it hasn't.

And you're not the only one whose ever felt like killing people you know. I used to plot how I could kill my boss and not get caught on a regular basis. (My boyfriend commented that you've never had a bad job until you've wanted to kill your boss when I told him that. He'd felt the same way before himself. And I wanted to shoot all my profs at one time too when I was really frustrated with school and my life in general. But otherwise I'm totally normal--not. lol)

 

[MLKane]

yeah I get you, sorry I snapped at you, it's kinda the whole anger thing, even on here. I'm gonna try hard to be calm.

Yes I have tried meditation, sometimes it helps but mostly it's too hard to get into that calm state or I can't stay in it. And while it's nice to think you know what I'm going through, I'm not sure you do. Imagine that moment where you have the urge to kill your boss. Now imagine if you felt like that all the time, with everyone. Everyone. I don't plot to kill people, I have to stop myself from trying, I see it in my head, I feel myself do it, I feel their blood on my hands and a part of me loves it. I don't just feel the urge to kill people who antagonise me, and it is an urge, a desire, an impulse, I want to kill everyone. People I meet, people I see in the street, people I know and love. I'm not sure how this is going to sit with the rules, but here's an example I had today. I was thinking about going back to college, and my thoughts crossed this girl I like just for a second.

And then in my head I killed her. I stabbed her through the armpit with a knife so she lay there bleeding and I used that knife to peel off her face. I cut it off and I wore it as a mask and then I went on to kill other friends. And then my anger let go of me and awoke from this daydream and I puked. I had felt the knife jarr in my hand as I stabbed her, felt the scraping of the metal on the bone of her skull, felt the warm wetness of the inside of her face on mine, heard her screams, smelt her fear as she emptied her bladder, for that moment it was real. And in that moment I enjoyed it. I'm not saying you don't get angry, that you don't feel like killing will make your life easier, but thats not what it's about for me. I don't care about making my life easier, I just want to hurt and kill and feel the elation that it brings to the dark angry part of me.

That's why I said in the first post that I have an animal inside of me, because I'd rather believe that that part of me that wants to drench itself in blood and roar in anger isn't really me. Because if it is then it'll be a positive thing when I commit suicide, that way no-one had to see that side of me get out.

 

[MLKane]

Hey,

Please don't mock me or get mad at me.. I'm just gonna try and help. If you don't agree with my ideas, or think they won't work for you, that's fine, I understand, but please try and remember that everyone here is struggling, and aren't experts, and are doing their best.

To be honest, I can't begin to imagine how hard this must be for you, on a day-in day-out basis. I'm not going to bullshit you by telling you I understand.. I can't completely. However, I can try and empathize. Have you tried keeping a mood diary? Even if it's hour by hour, as your mood changes, your anger builds, then diminishes.. I don't know, I thought maybe you could give it a try, and then take it to your doctor. They won't lock you away, as right now you are rational about it, you can repress the anger (even though you think that after a while this may become impossible), and while you can still talk about it rationally they will see that. They may give you medication, but if you explain your fears of being 'drugged' they will monitor it carefully and should have regular reviews with you to discuss your medication. They may also refer you to some sort of therapy.. with a doctors referral they won't laugh you out the door, and they should take you seriously.

Anyway, just my thoughts. I hope they help

Thank you, the mood diary is a good idea and I'll give it a try, maybe work myself up to see someone about it someday.

 

[AlienBeing]

Wow, that's a lot of rage. In men, they say it can be a sign of depression to be really angry. Maybe some antidepressants or tranquilizers would help. I wanted to stab my sister while she slept, through the heart with a pair of scissors a couple of years ago after we fought and still wish she'd just die and no longer speak to her. I've vaguely felt like shooting up a crowd of people out of frustration a few times in my life. But your urges are pretty specific and graphic and intense. Perhaps you should print them up and show them to someone. Over at Mad Season we've been trying to decide if someone's friend, who makes jokes about torturing small animals, is a serial killer or not. She produced a list of traits of serial killers. People have been rating themselves on the level of serial killer traits they have. How many do you meet? (I meet 2,6,8 and 10 but those are typical of depressed people too.)

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.
2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.
3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.
4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.
5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
7. They hate their fathers and mothers.
8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.
9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.
10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.
11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic pornography.
12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.
13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.
14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures

 

[MLKane]

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.
2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.
3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.
4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.
5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
7. They hate their fathers and mothers.
8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.
9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.
10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.
11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic pornography.
12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.
13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.
14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures

um yeah. 1, 2, 3, 5(not abandoned, but my mum walks all over him and me), 6 alcoholic, 7 hate my mother, 8 not sure if it counts check out my sig link for details, 10 3 so far, 11 I'm exhibitionist fetishist and slightly submissive, 13 fire is beautiful, 14 I used to but it's against my rules, and I never break my rules so not anymore.

so thats 11/14 then :/

 

[LightInTheDarkestNight]

yeah I get you, sorry I snapped at you, it's kinda the whole anger thing, even on here. I'm gonna try hard to be calm.

Yes I have tried meditation, sometimes it helps but mostly it's too hard to get into that calm state or I can't stay in it. And while it's nice to think you know what I'm going through, I'm not sure you do. Imagine that moment where you have the urge to kill your boss. Now imagine if you felt like that all the time, with everyone. Everyone. I don't plot to kill people, I have to stop myself from trying, I see it in my head, I feel myself do it, I feel their blood on my hands and a part of me loves it. I don't just feel the urge to kill people who antagonise me, and it is an urge, a desire, an impulse, I want to kill everyone. People I meet, people I see in the street, people I know and love. I'm not sure how this is going to sit with the rules, but here's an example I had today. I was thinking about going back to college, and my thoughts crossed this girl I like just for a second.

And then in my head I killed her. I stabbed her through the armpit with a knife so she lay there bleeding and I used that knife to peel off her face. I cut it off and I wore it as a mask and then I went on to kill other friends. And then my anger let go of me and awoke from this daydream and I puked. I had felt the knife jarr in my hand as I stabbed her, felt the scraping of the metal on the bone of her skull, felt the warm wetness of the inside of her face on mine, heard her screams, smelt her fear as she emptied her bladder, for that moment it was real. And in that moment I enjoyed it. I'm not saying you don't get angry, that you don't feel like killing will make your life easier, but thats not what it's about for me. I don't care about making my life easier, I just want to hurt and kill and feel the elation that it brings to the dark angry part of me.

That's why I said in the first post that I have an animal inside of me, because I'd rather believe that that part of me that wants to drench itself in blood and roar in anger isn't really me. Because if it is then it'll be a positive thing when I commit suicide, that way no-one had to see that side of me get out.

I'm not big on the whole labels of psychiatric disorders since in a way their made up disease(or fake disease) for behaviors or misbehaviors but it sounds like you have the proposed disorder of post traumatic embitterment. Supposedly people who go crazy and kill their family most often have PTED.

Regarding PTED. "pathological embitterment is a dangerous state of mind that can and does motivate evil deeds."

The more that your thoughts bother you the more they are not yours.

As for hurting animals that's very wrong. At least you are conscious of your harmful desires which should make it easier to control them

 

[LightInTheDarkestNight]

Wow, that's a lot of rage. In men, they say it can be a sign of depression to be really angry. Maybe some antidepressants or tranquilizers would help. I wanted to stab my sister while she slept, through the heart with a pair of scissors a couple of years ago after we fought and still wish she'd just die and no longer speak to her. I've vaguely felt like shooting up a crowd of people out of frustration a few times in my life. But your urges are pretty specific and graphic and intense. Perhaps you should print them up and show them to someone. Over at Mad Season we've been trying to decide if someone's friend, who makes jokes about torturing small animals, is a serial killer or not. She produced a list of traits of serial killers. People have been rating themselves on the level of serial killer traits they have. How many do you meet? (I meet 2,6,8 and 10 but those are typical of depressed people too.)

1. Over 90 percent of serial killers are male.
2. They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.
3. They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers.
4. They tend to come from markedly unstable families.
5. As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
6. Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
7. They hate their fathers and mothers.
8. They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.
9. Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.
10. They have high rates of suicide attempts.
11. From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic pornography.
12. More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12.
13. Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting.
14. They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures

That's interesting about serial killers having a high rate of suicide attempts.

Their are also very few serial killers that are of color, most are white males.

hmm... about number 12.. Sort of like how 70% of sociopaths grow up without their biological father. However it doesn't mean if you grow up without your father you have a 70% chance of being a sociopath.

That's pretty sick about sadistic activity and tormenting small creatures, animals are such simple creatures they don't harm others for power or pleasure like us humans. I'm compassionate enough to take some beetles in my house and put them outside instead of killing them. Although spiders on the other hand I'm not quite as compassionate, lol...

Serial killers have a hatred for society and there strive to have some power over it. Causing harm is their way of having power. Similarly to gangs and terrorists they use violence as a way to means to achieve power. The former also care about money the latter do not.

 

[LoveBeing]

...But on the other hand I know that I don't deserve help, that deep down I'm not a good person. I'm a sick monster who should be put down.

Hi MLKane,

You know that is not true…

Have you considered the possibility of letting go of the past and forgiving (including forgiving yourself) so you can move on with life? It must be extremely hard and limiting to try to live by so many rules due to the prison of anger/mind. Forgiveness may be the key to your freedom…

Forgiveness helps you make peace with your past. It creates the freedom to create a new future beginning now!

There is tremendous freedom in letting go.

It is liberation to free ourselves of things that clutter our lives.

Like pruning dead branches or like a snake shedding an old skin, we need to let go of what no longer serves or what no longer fits so that there is room for something new, alive, and what is needed at this time in our lives.

We no longer need to feel burdened by the responsibility of having to hold on to something.

To forgive is to remember, that we have room in our hearts to begin again and again, and again.

Give yourself the gift of forgiveness

I’ve got the above from the video clip below:

Forgiveness and the Freedom of Letting go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D4VMZb8wLY&feature=fvsr

I know it's not this simple. I hope you get the help you need and know you can be free from inside again...

 

[oxygenidia]

I relate to a lot of what you write. I feel like I want to make people suffer. It's scary, it's almost as if it doesn't even matter who it is, I just want to degrade people and make them miserable and see them break apart. Probably because I feel so disconnected to everyone. I have always been the "strong" person who never ask for help or cry on anyones shoulder, but inside I have cried. I just never showed it. Instead I have tried to give and give of myself and show support and love and understanding. Problem is I never get that same thing back. When it comes down to it, nobody does want to connect with me. Nobody does see my pain, they just want to take what they can get from you in terms of support and move on with their lives. And if you ever need them? Oh no, they are nowhere to be seen. I don't get it. Is it so fucking hard to find one genuine damn person on this planet who can just give something back?

Maybe somewhere inside I feel that the only way I could connect with people would be to make them suffer, so that they will get a part of what I'm feeling? But then again my fantasies aren't abou connecting either, I do just want to see people hurt. I'm not scared of myself though, cuz I know I wouldn't act on these feelings. Hurting myself is much more closer at hand.
Anyway, I don't think what you're feeling is weird, but I don't have any advice for you either really.

 

[MLKane]

thanks oxygenidia, I also have that where you're like always there for everyone else but when it's your pain and your problems, no one wants to know. It's like, "seriously? after what I've been through for you, you won't even listen?". I just don't ask for help anymore, I'm sick of it being "too heavy" or "a bit morbid" or "just silly really" or whatever. Denying someone's problems, even when it's not with me, even when it's someone else being dismissed, is one of those things I just can't be rational about. I just can't deal with that kind of careless attitude, not with my mind, it's just like someone flips a switch and I can't stay, I can't continue the conversation, I can't read the thread, I can just feel myself losing control. There are some subjects that do that to me. Rape, abusive relationships, things normal people would get angry over, I just find them so hard to deal with because I just feel this rage inside of me boiling through the cracks all these memories make in my self control.

LoveBeing, some things can never be forgiven. But it's not the past which makes me angry, not mostly. The past cuts me deeper, it makes me less inclined to limit my urges, but it's not the main source of my anger. Everyday people, everyday events, everyday lives, they are what fuel my anger now. I cannot let go of life, not without dying, just as I cannot forgive life because it just is, it is not right or wrong. I cannot shed the responsibility for my anger, it's a part of me. If I'm not responsible for it then who is? Who else is going to sit there and dig a knife into my skin to drown out the images, who else is going to punch me when I need to release my rage safely, who else is going to kill me when I feel myself snap? I'm not going to burden someone else with that responsibility. Thank you for the kind thoughts, but I do not think Ican do what you suggest, I just don't think that it is possible, at least for me.


LightInTheDarkestNight :/ I'm not entirely sure about your opinions of disorders being "fake" or "made up", in fact it is an opinion that I feel very strongly opposed to, to put it mildly, however I'm not going to get angry here.

Your idea that I might suffer PTED is an interesting one, the description I can find online of it is

Those with PTED were hard-working and mentally healthy people until a triggering event destroyed their core values and shattered their basic beliefs.

"People feel wronged, humiliated and that some injustice has been done to them," reports Dr. Linden.

According to Dr. Linden, those with PTED suffer from intrusive thoughts and memories long after the triggering event, phobicly avoid places related to the event and are pathologically consumed by an intense desire for revenge.

"The critical part is this [long] lasting and very intensive emotional embitterment, a mixture of depression and helplessness and hopelessness. It's a very nasty emotion."

But Dr. Linden found that PTED patients also suffer from a suite of other emotional complaints: 68.8% of the patients fulfilled the criteria for adjustment disorders; 52.1% for major depression; 41.7% for dysthymia; and 35.4% for generalized anxiety disorders. This overlap in symptoms is known as comorbidity and serves to confuse diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders.

as a description of how I feel its uh, inadequate to put it bluntly. I'm not so much about revenge, unless I somehow feel that everyone has wronged me, and although I have felt wronged, humiliated and that some injustice has been done to me in the past, I'm not sure why my anger would manifest against everyone and not just the people I feel have done me harm. So while I'm thankful for your input, I'm not so sure PTED is me.

(although you seem overly protective of animals. I'm more worried about the serial killers, and myself, hurting people to be honest, if I thought killing a few cats would do anything but make me worse then trust me, I'd be out there with some catnip and an axe.)

 

[LightInTheDarkestNight]

thanks oxygenidia, I also have that where you're like always there for everyone else but when it's your pain and your problems, no one wants to know. It's like, "seriously? after what I've been through for you, you won't even listen?". I just don't ask for help anymore, I'm sick of it being "too heavy" or "a bit morbid" or "just silly really" or whatever. Denying someone's problems, even when it's not with me, even when it's someone else being dismissed, is one of those things I just can't be rational about. I just can't deal with that kind of careless attitude, not with my mind, it's just like someone flips a switch and I can't stay, I can't continue the conversation, I can't read the thread, I can just feel myself losing control. There are some subjects that do that to me. Rape, abusive relationships, things normal people would get angry over, I just find them so hard to deal with because I just feel this rage inside of me boiling through the cracks all these memories make in my self control.

LoveBeing, some things can never be forgiven. But it's not the past which makes me angry, not mostly. The past cuts me deeper, it makes me less inclined to limit my urges, but it's not the main source of my anger. Everyday people, everyday events, everyday lives, they are what fuel my anger now. I cannot let go of life, not without dying, just as I cannot forgive life because it just is, it is not right or wrong. I cannot shed the responsibility for my anger, it's a part of me. If I'm not responsible for it then who is? Who else is going to sit there and dig a knife into my skin to drown out the images, who else is going to punch me when I need to release my rage safely, who else is going to kill me when I feel myself snap? I'm not going to burden someone else with that responsibility. Thank you for the kind thoughts, but I do not think Ican do what you suggest, I just don't think that it is possible, at least for me.


LightInTheDarkestNight :/ I'm not entirely sure about your opinions of disorders being "fake" or "made up", in fact it is an opinion that I feel very strongly opposed to, to put it mildly, however I'm not going to get angry here.

Your idea that I might suffer PTED is an interesting one, the description I can find online of it is

as a description of how I feel its uh, inadequate to put it bluntly. I'm not so much about revenge, unless I somehow feel that everyone has wronged me, and although I have felt wronged, humiliated and that some injustice has been done to me in the past, I'm not sure why my anger would manifest against everyone and not just the people I feel have done me harm. So while I'm thankful for your input, I'm not so sure PTED is me.

(although you seem overly protective of animals. I'm more worried about the serial killers, and myself, hurting people to be honest, if I thought killing a few cats would do anything but make me worse then trust me, I'd be out there with some catnip and an axe.)

The reality is with most diseases there is a test that has to be run before someone is diagnosed. You don't go to the doctor with symptoms of diabetes and they just treat you for diabetes. There is no legitimate test for a mental illness. People can fake having a mental illness for whatever reason(financial aid, or whatever).. You can't fake having a tumor, diabetes, cancer, their are medical tests your doctor runs to determine if you have those... sure you can lie to whomever about having cancer for whatever reason, if you're that low of a person...

If you talk to god you're praying if god talks to you then you have skizophrenia....

For example if a girl from eastern Europe is put on the street(a working girl) and beaten everyday it's only natural that she will go "crazy" now does that mean she needs medicine for a chemical imbalance? It's very unlikely.. therefore locking her up and giving her medicine would be a mistake...

Regarding the DSM...

Proponents argue that the inter-rater reliability of DSM diagnoses (via a specialized Structured Clinical Interview for DSM-IV (SCID) rather than usual psychiatric assessment) is reasonable, and that there is good evidence of distinct patterns of mental, behavioral or neurological dysfunction to which the DSM disorders correspond well. It is accepted, however, that there is an "enormous" range of reliability findings in studies,[29] and that validity is unclear because, given the lack of diagnostic laboratory or neuroimaging tests, standard clinical interviews are "inherently limited" and only a ("flawed") "best estimate diagnosis" is possible even with full assessment of all data over time.

Psychiatrists interview you for what 15 minutes, therefore as this states it's inherently limited and a flawed, best estimate diagnosis....

Psychiatrists from the APA vote on new disorders basically if your behavior is out of the norm you are deemed to have a "mental illness". When voting on new mental illnesses one person commented on how it seemed like they were deciding on voting on having Chinese food or Italian food for lunch...

You could be coming off drugs(dexedrin or crystal meth) and have a persecutory delusion. Let's say you were talking to some 15 year old girls on vacation and one asked you to kiss her, if you were coming off drugs and were in a "paranoid state" and had a persectory delusion you may think others would judge you as being into middle aged adolescents... When in reality you're not and only liked the attention. If you expressed this to someone else without them knowing the full context(that you had lot's of issues) and you were having a temporary delusion and they could judge and label you as something you were not...

Even in the mid 1800's their was something called drapetomania...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

Even now their is something called mathematics disorder..

Another example is this guys dad a Jewish man who got out of Nazi Germany in the 1930's came to America and her had persecutory delusions... Thinking the Nazi's were out to get him. His issue stemmed from a legitimate social problem...

Basically what I'm getting at is social factors or your environment can cause someone to have a "mental illness". Like they say serial killers are not born they are made... Look up Charles Manson and see what kind of upbringing he had as a child, he had many debilitating experiences...

PTED is not always about revenge, it's more about embitterment... Let's say you felt you were wronged by society as a whole or whatever you could lose it and kill your family. I recall it being argued that Hitler had PTED. Being traumatized, aggressive and wanting to inflict harm enough isn't all about wanting to get back atanyone who specifically harmed you but causing society as a whole harm.

Take a look at the Columbine shooters they didn't only target bullies, they shot up anyone and everyone... No one has the right to kill another human being regardless of how justified they feel, especially innocent people... There may be one exception if they legitimately is a threat to kill others.. Like in a hostage stand off....Although innocence is subjective, the Nazi's certainly didn't feel the Jewish women and children who only wanted to live their lives were innocent.. Obviously anyone who kills someone intentionally has a reason for it they've rationalized it some way in their minds. They have justified to themselves that the person deserves it for some wrong or misdeed, their could be a revenge facor, or some financial gain, etc...

Off topic but Hitler blamed the Jewish people for causing their problems, by creating an "enemy" and scapegoating them for their problems it was a way of bringing his people together...

The situation is very analogous to when seemingly good, normal, loving Germans supported Hitler, believing he was a good leader trying to help them. The German people didn't realize that the virulent pathogen malignant egophrenia had taken possession of Hitler and was incarnating itself through him. By not seeing this and supporting Hitler, they became agents used by this non-local, deadly disease to propagate itself. This was a collective psychosis...

I suggest you read on the what is know as Shadow in psychology...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_(psychology)

In Jungian psychology, the shadow or "shadow aspect" is a part of the unconscious mind consisting of repressed weaknesses, shortcomings, and instincts. It is one of the three most recognizable archetypes, the others being the anima and animus and the persona. "Everyone carries a shadow," Jung wrote, "and the less it is embodied in the individual's conscious life, the blacker and denser it is."[1] It may be (in part) one's link to more primitive animal instincts,[2] which are superseded during early childhood by the conscious mind.

According to Jung, the shadow, in being instinctive and irrational, is prone to projection: turning a personal inferiority into a perceived moral deficiency in someone else. Jung writes that if these projections are unrecognized "The projection-making factor (the Shadow archetype) then has a free hand and can realize its object--if it has one--or bring about some other situation characteristic of its power." [3] These projections insulate and cripple individuals by forming an ever thicker fog of illusion between the ego and the real world.

"we have already committed the crime in leaving our evil to other people."

I suggest reading this article , it's a few years old but quite interesting it get's into George W Bushes Pathology...

http://www.awakeninthedream.com/artis/BUSHISPALECRIMINALWEBSITE.htm

At the root of Bush's pathology is a deep dissociation, as he has split off from his own darker half. The pale criminal is a murderer (be it psychically, or physically) who is so disconnected from himself, he unconsciously denies and therefore consciously doesn’t even realize he is a murderer. Commenting on the extreme dissociation in the Nazi doctors who committed mass genocide, Robert Jay Lifton, author of The Nazi Doctors, says, “The Nazi doctor knew that he selected [who was going to die], but did not interpret selections as murder,” thus allowing them to “…bring forth a self that could adapt to killing without one’s feeling oneself a murderer.”[iv] Lifton points out that it was their deluded sense of meaning─such as purifying the race─that these pale criminals placed on the acts they were committing, which allowed them to justify their murderous actions. Bush similarly justifies his murderous acts, be it through the delusion of spreading democracy throughout the world or trying to find non-existent weapons of mass destruction, depending upon what is politically expedient at the moment.

100,000+ Deaths in the Iraq war not to mention all of the trillions spent on the war that could have been spent on helping people back home in the USA... Obviously the terrorism threat is legitimate however the response just created more death and violence...

By projecting the shadow and then wanting to destroy his own disowned shadow, the pale criminal becomes possessed by the very same darkness he is trying to destroy, perpetuating the never-ending cycle of violence. In describing Hitler as the embodiment of the pale criminal, Jung could have been describing George Bush when he listed a number of “pathological features” such as “…complete lack of insight into one’s own character…terrorization of one’s fellow men…projection of the shadow, lying, falsification of reality.”[

The pale criminal’s condition results in, Jung continues, “…wanting to jump over one's own shadow, and in looking for everything dark, inferior and culpable in others…but since nobody can jump out of his skin and be rid of himself, they stand in their own way everywhere as their own evil spirit.

Because the pale criminal splits off from and projects out his darker side, he has become fanatically identified with only one side of an inherently two-sided polarity. As Jung points out, this:

produces a condition of God-Almightiness, that is to say all those qualities which are peculiar to fools and madmen and therefore lead to catastrophe…it merely fills him with arrogance and arouses everything evil in him. It produces a diabolical caricature of man, and this inhuman mask is so unendurable, such a torture to wear, that he tortures others.[x]

Jung is pointing at the condition of becoming unconsciously identified with and hence, inflated by, a more powerful archetypal energy, which is a genuine form of insanity.

Jung continued that in this figure “…there is amazing ignorance of the shadow, [he] is only aware of his good motives, and when the bad ones can no longer be denied he becomes the unscrupulous Superman who fancies he is ennobled by the magnitude of his aim.”[xi] Frighteningly, Bush and his regime believe that their “noble” aim justifies any means, no matter how vile.

Jung concludes his description of this pathology by saying that this figure “…disrupts the laws of humanity, and sins against all the rules of the human community…he has to keep his crime secret…he is the most violent breaker of the bond of the human community.”

 

[MLKane]

So basically you're saying that PTED can be a hatred of society in general? As I've already said, I do not hate society. I have hatred inside of me, and it latches onto anything around me, but it is not directed. Well, that or you're saying it's too vague to really be useful as a diagnosis, in which case it was a rather pointless one.

I'm not gonna argue with you about how you detect mental illness or whether any converstations count as concrete evidence. I'm not rational enough for a debate about this, and we're both entrenched in our opinions so the whole exercise would be pointless anyway.

Also, I could not give a flying fuck about someone else's opinions on Bush or why he behaved how he did or how he justified it or any of that. I do not care about Bush. And I do not need a lecture on Hitler either. Everyone with a Western education should know who Hitler was and the crimes that the Nazis committed, however I'm not sure how you go from saying that diagnosies of mental illness are "made up" to claiming that the Holocaust, essentially an outburst of uncontrolled hatred, was all a shared psycosis. but whatever, believe what you like.

As for the Shadow, meh, it's nothing special as a theory, everyone knows that people have a darker side, we see it every day. I'm not sure why I need a psycologist to confirm the fact that there is evil in everyone, because not only do we all see it every day, I personally can feel it, such is the subject of the thread. My fears and worries are related to what you would call the Shadow becoming the dominant part of my personality, something that, from what I feel, it threatens to do every day.

 

[LightInTheDarkestNight]

You can't deal with the hatred inside of yourself. It's been integrated as a part of who you are. You have so much hatred and and anger your shadow may actually a be kind or nice person...

What you state sounds contradictory. First you say you don't hate society in general then you say you have a hatred inside of you that latches onto anything around you... I'll give you that your hatred derives from your inner feelings however you are projecting or latching as your put it on anything around you(which I comprehend as society).

You need to deal with your feelings of anger and hatred and not project them onto anyone around you... Possibly sigh up for a boxing gym, lift weights, get a punching bag or even work with a therapist. Letting your anger and hatred build up and manifest inside you isn't right... You're not capable of dealing and coping with you feelings therefore you project it onto anything and anyone around you.

I'm guessing you had at least one childhood trauma, possibly even others as an Adult. When someone becomes a victim there are two responses the first you feel sadness, shame, hopelessness, it can hurt your self esteem or self worth, possibly even guilt, etc. Females are a bit more prone to this response.. The other response is aggression towards the outside world, you have hatred, anger, and may even resort to cruelty and violence. Men are a bit more prone to this response.. Obviously there can be some combination of the two.

Your healing process may start with forgiveness... you need to forgive whomever you wronged you, that doesn't mean you condone or forget, and you also need to forgive yourself for numerous reasons...

I'm not saying mental illnesses aren't legitimate or psychiatry is all bogus, there certainly quite a few benefits for some people, however in a way it's a form of pseudoscience. Conversations obviously don't count as concrete evidence, it's only one aspect. You have to take the whole context of everything to have a proper understanding...

I'm not giving you a lecture on Bush or Hitler, that is your interpretation... I'm merely stating how some people look for evil in others which makes them not have to deal with the evil within themselves.

As one quote states... "battle not with monsters lest ye become a monster"

I never said the diagnosis are "made up" I stated how the illnesses are made up or manufactured by psychiatrists...

If you are sad, fatigued, can't get out of bad, have no motivation and don't want to live obviously there is something wrong with you there is no debating that. This is what's know as depression... however there could be many factors in this let's say you're living in poverty, your BF or husband is abusive, you had a miscarriage and you are suffering from physical illnesses or ailments. Now is this a "mental illness" or is this the circumstances of someones life? Basically what I'm alluding to is most people would be depressed if they were in that person's shoes...

Too much pain and suffering and you'll be labeled as depressed, too much trauma you can't get over or cope with you properly have what is known as PTSD.. Trauma can even cause OCD... I'm not debating that the suffering isn't legitimate... Putting down or minimizing someone's suffering is wrong and pretty heartless...

 

[LoveBeing]

LoveBeing, some things can never be forgiven. But it's not the past which makes me angry, not mostly. The past cuts me deeper, it makes me less inclined to limit my urges, but it's not the main source of my anger. Everyday people, everyday events, everyday lives, they are what fuel my anger now. I cannot let go of life, not without dying, just as I cannot forgive life because it just is, it is not right or wrong. I cannot shed the responsibility for my anger, it's a part of me. If I'm not responsible for it then who is? Who else is going to sit there and dig a knife into my skin to drown out the images, who else is going to punch me when I need to release my rage safely, who else is going to kill me when I feel myself snap? I'm not going to burden someone else with that responsibility. Thank you for the kind thoughts, but I do not think Ican do what you suggest, I just don't think that it is possible, at least for me.

Thanks for your direct and honest response, MLKane…

Your mind may not think you can forgive, but your heart can…

When you realize that anger is like poison within you and forgiveness is the cure, you have the power to forgive - yes, forgiving is an expression of strength/power, not weakness…

Surely you love freedom…forgiveness is what can bring you freedom when you are so enraged and imprisoned by so many mental rules in your daily life…

I’ve read some of your posts and here is what I see:

In a way, the society failed you… You were 11 years old and you got into that kind of relationship with Leanne. What happened was not necessarily personal. You just happened to be there and Leanne just happened to be in a condition to do what she was doing (her “condition” or “sickness” may have a lot to do with her lacking of real human relationship in her family, etc). Unfortunately you were the victim of this failure of the society. You were at such a young age - too young to make choices for your well-being while Leanne seemed to have that kind of power to control and abuse you. Your mind might have even tricked you into believing that you chose to experience what was happening between you and Leanne. The truth is that you were unable to make conscious choice due to your young age. (Maybe that’s why it’s a crime to have sex with boys or girls at that young age.)

Further, nobody was there to help you out of the situation or guide you when you really needed. What Russ did to you through Leanne seems to be the cause of your anger towards gay people. What they did to you was cruel and inhumane, as well as ignorant. (I had a hard time to even read that part.) May I mention that open/normal gay people are usually very gentle and loving? You must know that Russ was very sick in a way, too…


These are just some of my brief understanding about the situations. It's almost certain that your anger originated from those horrible experiences. The poison of your rage or anger has spread to your relationships with everyone in life now. Even your thoughts of unrelated people’s (sex) life or any kind of happiness or events may fuel your anger because your mind seems to tell you that you cannot move on with life and be happy like everyone else…

The truth is - you do have the power to let go of the past and forgive - especially forgive yourself. Actually, you cannot be held responsible for not having escaped those horrible experiences - you were simply too young (physically and psychologically) at the time…while Leanne and Russ were both sick in their own ways…

And you CAN move on with life…you are still very young…you are very intelligent…you have the power to turn the experiences into lessons and make yourself stronger…you can do the impossibles…and forgive the “unforgivables”…

You can feel you still have so much love in you. Please free yourself by getting rid of the poison of anger/rage and live…you CAN do this!!

Since you would not consider professional help for now, I encourage you to allow us to help you work on forgiving and moving on with your life…as I know that you have what it takes (strength/courage and intelligence) to get through this!

With loving wishes and hugs :hug:

 

[LightInTheDarkestNight]

Thanks for your direct and honest response, MLKane…

Your mind may not think you can forgive, but your heart can…

When you realize that anger is like poison within you and forgiveness is the cure, you have the power to forgive - yes, forgiving is an expression of strength/power, not weakness…

Surely you love freedom…forgiveness is what can bring you freedom when you are so enraged and imprisoned by so many mental rules in your daily life…

I’ve read some of your posts and here is what I see:

In a way, the society failed you… You were 11 years old and you got into that kind of relationship with Leanne. What happened was not necessarily personal. You just happened to be there and Leanne just happened to be in a condition to do what she was doing (her “condition” or “sickness” may have a lot to do with her lacking of real human relationship in her family, etc). Unfortunately you were the victim of this failure of the society. You were at such a young age - too young to make choices for your well-being while Leanne seemed to have that kind of power to control and abuse you. Your mind might have even tricked you into believing that you chose to experience what was happening between you and Leanne. The truth is that you were unable to make conscious choice due to your young age. (Maybe that’s why it’s a crime to have sex with boys or girls at that young age.)

With loving wishes and hugs :hug:

Good advice overall however I take a bit of offense that you seem to only view young people as vulnerable... Obviously a 11 year old will be more vulnerable then a 16-17 year old in virtually every case, in most cases they haven't even hit puberty... Don't mistake me for condoning on minimizing what MLKane went through, I'm not at all...

Maturity isn't always about age, there are older people my age for example who have been taken advantage of greatly. There certainly are females around 16 years old with more maturity then even someone 23 or 25 years old...

Just because you're 20 something versus a teenager doesn't guarantee or assure you have any less of a vulnerable psyche and cannot be controlled, used, manipulated or take advantage off. Sure one tends to have a less vulnerable psyche as they get older however it's different for everyone. Some people actually get more vulnerable after they've been harmed thus making it more easy for them to be revictimized... I know this first hand...Things should be taken on a case by case basis...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation

I don't even think you can imagine how many women have taken advantage of me and harmed me.... Not to mention everyone the same thing could effect many different people in different ways.. I had so many issues and still do it was almost as easy for them as stealing candy from a baby..... Even when I had the most genuine motives.... Just because I'm older doesn't mean I deserve victim blaming, which is what I experienced this one guy(her best friends BF) even said about this one girl who used me and was incredibly unscrupulous well you dated her so it's your fault.... like wow... Maybe partially my fault but with all of my issues I was easy prey... not much different at all then taking advantage of a vulnerable teen, maybe even worse in some respects due to my past.... He's just saying that so he doesn't feel any responsibility, it's all about being selfish... I heard how she slept with 20 guys and would hook up with them before we would hang out when she told me it was only 2 guys other then me.... Once she got what she wanted out of me (her victim) she abandoned me... Just as they state on the psychological manipulation page..