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Interesting Video about New Depression Treatment

Discussion in 'Self Care and Healthy Lifestyles' started by JmpMster, Aug 30, 2014.

  1. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I found this video on CNN Health - it is about the experimental use of deep brain implants for treatment of longterm and chronic depression. Just to clarify - this is a small study - it is not available at your local medical center and it is just about a new way be looked into. What I found most interesting is it would seem to me that it makes clear if something like this works that yes, there is a basic physical issue at play with severe depression and reinforces what we all should know but try to deny - it is not our circumstances that cause severe life long or years long depression because millions of people have bad or worse circumstances.

    A symptom of depression is the lie we tell ourselves that it is just our situation that is the problem - but situations cause sadness, not true depression despite what I and most others try to convince ourselves and others. If nothing else is nice to know that there are still many many studies and programs that are looking into ways to more effectively treat depression - and all are excellent reasons to try to hold on longer because maybe one of these will work for you at some point so long as you are around to try it. Maybe not this one- but there are new meds and therapies and intervention being explored all the time even for those that have been depressed for many many years.

    CNN Video for Surgical Treatment of Depression
  2. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Guest

    But really, what is the difference between "sadness" and "true depression," other than that in order to diagnose major depressive disorder according to DSM IV-TR, the emotional condition must satisfy at least 5 of 9 rather vaguely worded criteria and have lasted for at least two weeks, and result in some functional impairment with respect to activities of daily living? It's a matter of clinical judgment only a psychiatrist--who must possess an MD in addition to a degree in psychology and complete a year of residency before independent practice--is qualified to make.

    Biomedical theories of depression citing the action of 5-HT, dopamine, and their receptors in the limbic system are based solely on animal models, mainly rats fed diets deficient in tryptophan and tyrosine, or given antagonist drugs, because levels of these substances cannot be measured in living human beings. Yet the emotional impact of adverse events or circumstances, in turn, can't easily be assessed in rats who can't talk about their feelings.

    The interaction between circumstances, genetics, and neurochemistry is a fascinating topic. I don't think any of these three factors should be discounted. You are quite correct to say that situations alone are not enough to induce depression. Yet the fact that some people face worse circumstances than we do without getting depressed doesn't mean that circumstances are irrelevant. For many patients the first onset of a depressive episode happens after a major life event such as bereavement, a personal illness, or loss of job. Depression is much more common in the aging and in people who have cancer or other physical problems than it is in the general population. People vary greatly in their ability to tolerate adversity, and in the social standing and support available to them. The marginal in society as well tend to experience negative mood and affect relative to others.

    :uncomfortableness: I suspect there is a continuum between what we call sadness and what we call depression, influenced by genetics, by acquired physical health factors, and by social factors, perhaps in roughly equal measure. Therefore, if such a brain operation becomes possible, it may help some people, but will prove no more a magic bullet than previous treatment breakthroughs have. It could also bring undesirable externalities--any brain surgery is a high-risk proposition, with only a tiny slip of the scalpel needed to cause disaster. And insurance and health care costs, already beyond reach of many, will be pushed up again as insurance companies are forced to cover another $200,000 procedure.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014
  3. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    The difference between sadness and depression is the difference between the huge chasm that exists that people say "just get over it" and do not understand why one cannot. It is the difference of why some people are ready to kill themselves over the loss of a job resulting in selling or foreclosing on a home so live in an apartment while there are millions with no home and no idea where the next meal comes from that are relatively happy. It is the difference between the 40% of school children that get bullied at some point in school and the 2 people in their class that kill themselves for the same reason. It is why over half of all marriages end in divorce yet some kill themselves over loss of a boyfriend or girlfriend of 6 weeks.

    While you make some mildly interesting if only half the explanations of the KNOWN physical indicators of depression that are all still debated and attempt to make it into a discussion on why they do or do not matter- you correctly point out the ONLY known is they are not measurable or it is disagreed upon what is normal or needed. The fact that you need air to breathe was an absolute fact long before there existed a means to measure molecules of oxygen in that air.

    While clearly it is a combination of environment and genetics and history (sorry, I am dumbing down your rhetoric because I lack the need to try to impress anybody but if you would like to continue this in PM I would be more than happy to - but for here lets stick to easy to understand rather than impressive but glazed over dismissively) and all ultimately play a factor in it- NONE of that means that there is not a difference between depression and sadness and quite the opposite all makes very clear that there is a very large difference.

    While the treatment may be chemical/pharmacological, or perhaps even surgical in some cases while in others it does go into spontaneous remission or is remedied by talk therapy and coping mechanisms, it is in no way a logical conclusion that sadness and depression are the same thing and the only absolute fact that has been proven in multitudes of studies is that treatment is effective in the vast majority of cases. The lack of belief in the difference between depression and typical sadness it what causes the large stigma of mental health and mental health treatment with the implication some people are simply weak as their circumstance is relatively mild compared to others while they do not simply "get over it".

    The same can be said for a multitude of physical illnesses where it is proven that simple prayer can speed healing from some illnesses for some people yet there are also times where prescriptions or surgical intervention are needed to actually be cured. Or the millions of people that are on medications for their entire life for everything from blood pressure to diabetes that have no issue at all with taking these medications as simple lifesaving steps despite the side effects which are very often as bad as or worse than the side effects of most anti depressants and anti psychotics.

    I also agree that it will not be a magic bullet any more than any other- simply another approach that may work when others have failed for those willing to admit that their is condition that needs treatment and seek or try treatment for it. Like any other invasive procedure it would likely be a last step rather than first and the idea of the study is in determining when it might prove effective at al land since is only a study it may in the end prove to be of no use whatsoever after a more substantial amount of testing is completed and peer reviewed but the point of the video and my post remain the same -

    There ARE treatments for depression and if you meet the diagnostic criteria for depression then getting and following treatment is far more likely to yield results than explaining why you do not get treatment and blaming it on your situation in life or trying to call depression and sadness the same thing, which is easily shown to be BS by looking at the world around you and the fact if you have access to this site then there is assuredly several billion people in the world in worse economic, social, and physical health, and freedom of actions that ARE NOT considering killing themselves every day so it might be better to consider the possibility that while doing nothing is infinitely easier doing something about it such as treatment of SOME type is going to effect a change far more quickly than doing nothing and blaming fate and bad luck and parents and bullies and and the economy and whoever else and claiming it is the situation so no treatment is needed.

    As my signature line says - If you do nothing today to make tomorrow better - then do not be disappointed with tomorrow - which basically applies to everybody that has been depressed for a long period of time and chooses not to get treatment and instead waits for something to magically change by itself so they become happy with no more effort than getting drunk or getting high - or to simply continue being suicidal depressed because that is where their comfort zone is at this point (and that is what gives credibility to the accusations of "not happy unless miserable" while completely missing the point of inability to make decisions to get better so long as even the most rudimentary existence is possible despite the relatively easily attained possibility of better).
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2014
  4. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    The scientist are continuing hard to find more help for hard to treat depression and for some it comes in the way of new medication others new therapy and others new treatments No one is giving up on finding a cure for depression so we should not give up either right because as said who knows what will come to help us in the future i agree totally with that statement
  5. Hatshepsut

    Hatshepsut Guest

    I will concede the debate at this point, as far as intellectual demonstration goes. I'm not smarter than anyone else here--even though I didn't claim that sadness and depression are the same thing, only that they represent ends of a continuum and probably share causes.

    I do not believe that persons who suffer from depression should be stigmatized or denied treatment options. My response was more to the video clip than to you.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2014