Interview with Taliban trained suicide bomber

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by OutCaste, Jul 18, 2010.

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  1. OutCaste

    OutCaste Well-Known Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2010
  2. Mikeintx

    Mikeintx Well-Known Member

    Man, I don't know how that guy interviewing him stayed so calm, I would have attacked that piece of shit.
  3. OutCaste

    OutCaste Well-Known Member

    Not only is he calm, at one point in the interview he also suggests that muslim kids should be spared as they might grow up and hate america just like the bomber does.

    But then again this is very normal in Pakistani media
  4. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    End of the day the route of terrorism is an act of a group who arnt powerful enough to fight openly against the opposition they deem the aggressor, the invader.

    The US are hated for good reason. Every muslim that is tortured, every child that is killed, every country that is invaded, every woman that is raped makes them stronger, their anger makes them go extreme.

    Any man with the america flag on his chest who commits a crime condems his entire nation. These people do not believe in collateral damage, any bomb that falls on their civilians will anger them, regardless of every enemy target it takes out.

    Brtiain made itself a target when she went skipping into the middle east behind Uncle Sam to try and give herself some weight in how politics of how the world is ran.

    It is all very similar to the attitude of a minority of french people during Britain and America's liberation, freedom and democracy drive into their land.
  5. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    About 50% of Taliban suicide bombers in Afghanistan end up killing only themselves (or their allies) due to accidents or sheer incompetence. Computers confiscated from al-Qaeda and Taliban leaders are full of pornography (including animal and children), while military reconnaissance has caught some militants engaging in bestiality with animals.

    Clearly, there are many terrifying people in these groups. But a lot of them are dregs, perverts, and lunatics that are more farcical than dangerous (except to maybe themselves and their own cause).
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2010
  6. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    The US are hated for good reason.

    It is not just the US though, is it? I have just come back from Bangkok and in the South of Thailand, Thais are regularly murdered by Islamic fanatics for not being Muslim. I am sure you haven't forgotten the murders in Mumbai, where it was clearly about being Muslim or not Muslim because when one of the Turkish waiters said "I am a Muslim" they didn't kill him but killed the others all around, the Hindus and everyone of every other religion.

    And what about Nigeria, where they are killing the Christians and Animists. So here we have Islamic groups targeting Hindus/Jains/Parsis/Sikhs in India; Christians/Atheists/Randoms in Spain/America/UK etc.; Buddhists in Thailand; Egyptian Copts; Jews in Israel; Bah'ai in Iran etc. is there any religious or non-religious group that is acceptable to them? NO. So don't think this is all some sort of anti-American thing. Nigerians are not American, neither are Thais, neither are a whole lot of people and it doesn't make a blind bit of difference!

    And that is not beginning to take into accout the sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni as well.

    What seems to be happening is that the madrassas around the world are teaching that indiscriminate violence against men, women and children as long as they are 'kaffir' ie non-Muslim, is not only acceptable but to be positively encouraged, that you will be a martyr and get an immediate "go straight to heaven, get your 72 virgins". There is no morality in this, there is no empathy, it is just pure violence.

    The standard teaching seems to be 'the more you kill, the better Muslim you are' -- if you can only get one, that's okay but if you can take down a whole plane load, or a bus, or a tube, or a building, or a nightclub, or a whole bunch of diners in a hotel then bravo - fantastic, gosh look at all those kaffirs lying in a pool of blood, Mohammed is clapping his hands with glee. The seven year old, the mother of two young children, the salesman, the brother, the old granny, haha! Fantastic. Well done. The planter returning from work in Thailand. The business man on his bus to Edgware, the school girl on the train in Spain. Too bad you couldn't get more, but never mind if you can only manage a bit of throwing acid in a schoolgirls face as she tries to get an education and laugh with delight as it bubbles and melts, never mind - can't all be twin towers, what you can do well as long as you have done your best...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2010
  7. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    I'm talking about this terrorists target purpose inparticular.

    I'd be careful not to go on a crusade against the religion.

    Their is a purpose behind the hatred of any sector or group, the routes are all similar, all levels of terrorism everywhere in the world regardless of religion. The religious stories and beliefs do not matter, their reasons for hate is NOT because of their religion, it is what the opposition have done to their people, religion is just what they can unite together with.

    The I.R.A killed hundreds of innocent women and children in Britain, loyalists and republicans have killed thousands of each other in Northern Ireland in terrorist attacks. Algerians have killed many French in terrorist attacks. The ETA have killed hundreds of innoncent Spaniards.

    I'm sure those men loved what they did and their organisations celebrated in it.

    The muslim extremists in Thailand beleive in the same thing as these other groups... Independence and freedom.

    Practically ALL terrorists are fighting what they believe to be the occupant.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2010
  8. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    Their is a purpose behind the hatred of any sector or group,

    Well, in the case of Islamic fundamentalists that is anyone who isn't Muslim.

    Or in the case of the video anyone who isn't fighting with the Taliban. Children included.

    their reasons for hate is NOT because of their religion, it is what the opposition have done to their people, religion is just what they can unite together with.

    Total b*llshit if you will excuse my French. What has the 'opposition' done to the people in Nigeria which would then incite the underpants bomber. Where is his lack of freedom, exactly. His father was head of bank in Nigeria, I don't see his oppression anywhere. Exactly who are you condemning as the opposition here, anyway. The Yoruba? The Ibo? And if it so happens that he does loathe the Yoruba, what was it that took him to Yemen? His religion I think you will find is the answer. And his religion persuaded him to blow-up or attempt to blow up a 747 with indiscriminate persons of all different religions on board.

    His hate came directly from his religion. It's the only place it came from. It was where it was instilled, by hate-filled fanatical preachers at his University and it was honed and continued by his "education" in Yemen.

    I'd be careful not to go on a crusade against the religion. Why because I am going to be killed or targeted? Thank you but no thank you, I would rather stand up loudly against it than kow-tow to the fear option. Fortunately I don't have children that can be used as a target against me. I understand those who will kow-tow when they have children such as this London councilor but for those of us that don't ... all the more important to point things out, no I won't shut up!

    A Muslim councillor says she has changed the way she dresses after receiving death threats because of her “western” appearance, but insists she will not quit politics.

    Shiria Khatun, a Labour councillor in Tower Hamlets, said she was called on her work mobile three weeks ago by a man speaking in Sylheti, a dialect of Bengali.

    “He threatened to exhume my parents' bodies and put me in there so I just put the phone down,” she said.

    Ms Khatun, 38, called in police after the man rang a week later and threatened her four children. Detectives gave her an alarm and increased patrols around the route her children take to school.

    The councillor says the harassment began 18 months ago and has included late night obscene phone calls from a number of men and cars following her in the street.

    This hate comes directly from the religion. Just as the crusades came directly from inflaming Christians with their 'religious obligations'. It comes directly from the religion and from what those madrassas are preaching/brainwashing.
  9. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Fear??? I was refering to honour, respect and dignity. Crusading against Islam is condeming over a billion people for the acts of a minority, racially targeting through generalisation which is effectively stooping to the level of these you preach against who have hatred for any member of another race.

    The "pants bomber" lived in London where he actively protested the UK and US invasions in the middle east, he was filled with anger about guantanamo bay. He had contacts with other muslims in London who were angry at the US and their actions. He developed his hatred and anger before religion took him to the Yemen where he met with Al Quaeda contacts. He saw those regarded as his people being persecuted.

    Religion is merely an identity, equal to nationality, colour and creed. All things people fight for when persecuted. The distance people will go is cultural.

    Ms Khatan has offended some people who thought she was part of their beliefs. Similar to way society looks down on gays and all the homersexuals disowned from their family or community because of it.

    Some areas of Islam are out dated with western societies and belong in other countries.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2010
  10. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    This is what was said by a Muslim

    Mumbai (AsiaNews) - "I condemn the attacks against Christians in Egypt in the strongest possible manner". Asghar Ali Engineer, a Muslim Indian and head of the Centre for Studies on Society and Secularism in Mumbai, uses no uncertain terms to condemn the violence against the Coptic community in Egypt. "Human life is sacred" – he explains to AsiaNews -

    On 12 March at Mersa Matrouh in the north-west of Egypt, a crowd of 3 thousand fanatics amassed against the Coptic faithful gathered in prayer. The fundamentalist’s violence, egged on by the local imam....

    So what is he also condemning a billion people? The guy in the video or plenty of suicide bombers, they are just brain-washed (I think).

    The madrassas and fundamentalists have their own political agendas and desires and the lives lost by suicide bombers and those they kill are simply "collateral damage" in the furthering of their own wish to see an Islamic Caliphate or rather a despotic, women-hating, gender-discriminating, violent, dictatorship (not dissimilar in political set-up to Communism) with an insane idea of a 'utopia' that will come about when all the dissenters have been eliminated and a need for religious police (or KGB) to brook all dissent and all humanism or decency is inferior to the end result so ALL are expendable. We have heard it all before.

    It is a dangerous and violent and supremacist ideology and it really doesn't matter whether it is Hitler 'perfecting' the world by getting rid of the disabled, the non-Aryan, the Jews and the gays; or whether it is Stalin/Trotsky bringing about their utopic communist state by "cutting out the dead wood - and if a few healthy branches go with it, so be it". A few million dead each time. Each and every time.

    I point out this ideology is dangerous and preaching hate but I hardly need to --- we just need to look at what is happening where this ideology is actively preached. You can look at those killed in Uganda whilst watching the World Cup. You can see the Somalis being murdered on YouTube and read about the endemic violence against civilians there. You can read about the school-girls getting acid in their face. You can see pictures of Thai police carrying the beheaded heads of murdered planters. You can see and read about the devastation in Bombay or in Spain or in the UK or in Indonesia or in America ... so I suppose I don't need to point it out any more than the facts do for themselves. But then what is one supposed to do, for example what would have been the right thing to do when Hitler was amassing his following? What would have been the right thing to do when Stalin was sending millions of his own people to gulags? Is there anything that would have stopped those ideologies from blossoming and taking millions of lives with them?

    Religion is merely an identity Is it? I don't think so. You can say to a normal person -- go and kill that child walking down that street, right now and they will refuse but if you say go and kill that child because your religion demands that you do -- well, it is a different story (as we can see from the video above). They will do it, in the name of their religion. It is more than identity, I don't know what it is but it is more than identity, it seems to me.

    I don't know.

    And I don't know that, in this day and age, homosexuals are usually disowned from their family or communities in the UK. I don't know, I don't know enough homosexuals (I suppose I wouldn't being female, anyway). I know one friend's brother who I think works for a bank. He is not disowned anyway. As for the average, I just don't know.

    Ms Khatan may have offended some people but WHY does that make it acceptable to threaten her children. This is a train of thought that I can't grasp as acceptable in an educated adult. I don't like this therefore I will react violently. It is almost the behaviour of a two or three year old child that knows no better, yet. He is upset and so he kicks or hits or possibly bites. But really by the age of six or seven, he already does know better and does not behave in that way - normally, unless from a violent background or similar or lacking any normal capability for empathy and socialability.

    Perhaps it does sound like I am preaching violence in the same way that I accuse the madrassas of doing -- but I don't want any violence. I want people to be aware that this is a growing ideology and that it is dangerous, that it needs to be stood up to and not tolerated. I suppose that is what I think but whether that is the right way to do it, I don't know.
  11. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying any of this is acceptable, in terms of our western beliefs it is far from it. The point is as brainwashed as they might be their is a reason for their cause other than religion, the route cause. When they are taken away and trained, or brain washed if you like, the way they drill the hatred for the perceived enemy is through highlighting what the enemy have done or are doing.

    The former leader of the MI5 has just told the Iraq Inquiry that British and American presence gave people a reason to fight them, it tainted a proportion of the young generation coming through. She said Al Quaeda was not a problem in Iraq until we went there. Terrorist recruitment has gone up tenfold.

    We went into Iraq defeated their army and Saddam Hussain, that should have been it, instead now we are fighting a terrorist group that did not exist before we got there! Al Quaeda have moved in and recruited.

    We give them a reason to fight. Their religion gives them the methods to fight.

    As for it being identity, what you said about their actions, 1 religion vs another, that is the same as nationality. There have been thousands of years worth of wars, racism and persecution over race, religion, nationality, even wars because one country believes in democracy and "freedom", it is the same, it's a base, a cause of which people can fight from. Another identity that seperates one person from another, even though we all human on the same rock.
  12. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    I agree, there is more to these men and their actions than religious extremism, or even religion in general. Evidence from intelligence sources have found many of these leaders, as well as their recruits, to be lacking the sort of purity and piety they claim to be abiding by and fighting for: they engage in bestiality, watch pornography, and even enjoy some of the very Western culture they claim to be fighting against. The Taliban (on both sides of the "Af-Pak" border) is widely viewed to be a predatory mafia, and is every bit as unloved by locals as Western forces.

    It's difficult to make a blanket description of our enemies. They have varying motives, backgrounds, and psychological profiles. Many recruits are young, unemployed, uneducated, and sexually and emotional frustrated. The presence of a foreign enemy creates both an existential threat to their people and a scapegoat for the their personal and societal ills. Our ham-fisted invasion has only fueled the socioeconomic and psychological conditions that breed conflict.
  13. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Well Osama Bin Laden was an Arsenal fan and applied for asylum in London in 1995 :lol!: He loved George Graham's long ball style and all the 1-0 wins. :D
  14. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    their is a reason for their cause other than religion, the route cause.

    This is an interesting question, is the root cause the religion/ideology or something else. For me, it is the ideology that comes first ... but I can see that societies where there is a lot of poverty prove fertile ground and particularly societies that are patriarchal, where questioning is not very acceptable (within family or without), thinking for oneself is not encouraged, where education is low, where female education is exceptionally low and as the main carer for the children both male and female the lack of education of the mother is probably particularly problematic, but then again --- it isn't just that, is it. Germany was a 1st world, highly educated population for its time but fascism took hold easily there (they had extreme poverty due to the restrictions placed upon them from the 1st world war but the other societal issues, no). Equally India has extreme poverty in urban areas and fairly low rates of education in the rural areas, women are particularly less likely to be educated and yet they are not taking to fascist/utopic/supremacist ideologies --- but perhaps the difference there is that questioning is not necessarily unencouraged --- but then in Germany I think that they had great thinkers and people in society were encouraged to question, too.

    So I think it is an interesting question --- what is the root cause. Of course, the joke answer is always that none of these extremists have ever managed to develop a sense of humour! Whether that be Germans in the 1930s or Taleban right now.

    They have no capacity to laugh at life or at themselves.

    But the more serious issue is that it is, perhaps, an innate characteristic in every human to look for a utopia and if someone has the capacity to convince someone else that you can provide it (through their charismatic oratory and psychological tricks), people will sacrifice almost everything including themselves to bring it about. But of course, it is just a lie - a lie that the person or persons use to bring themselves power.

    The heaven on earth only exists if you choose to bring it about within yourself, within your own perspective --- not by forcing others to do your bidding! That just ends up being absolute personal hell (and hell for everyone else) --- as we can see with any number of dictators who descend into miserable paranoias such as Mao/Stalin/Idi Amin Dada/Nero from ancient world to modern. So why don't we stop these ideologies, why do we sit here and sort of go --- oh, its all okay. Nothing really wrong, and lets not look at the ideology, lets look at US ... it must be our fault. Just like an abused wife sits there and says, "Oh, it is all my fault he beat me up, I didn't get him his favourite sausages for supper and I KNOW he loves those sausages - so it is ALL my fault, all my fault that I got beaten up." NO IT ISN'T.

    What is this victim mentality we have in the West, constantly berating ourselves for this growing ideology. It is nothing to do with us, except for the fact that we accept it and try to blame ourselves for it, which is clearly nuts, in my point of view.

    I am probably the only person left in the world, who thinks that they are glad Saddam Hussein was removed (but that might be because I knew some Kurds at University). I think had I been living in Iraq, I would have been delighted that he was removed from power. That said, I also agree that there ought to have been a better thought-through after process. And it is not because I EVER thought that Saddam was in any way connected with Al-Quaeda or was in any way a threat to the West on that level. I think that we were lied to, deliberately, by our politicians about these weapons of mass destruction and I thought that at the time, too but I still thought that removing Saddam would have been a good thing for Iraq and for the people of Iraq.

    I don't see why removing a dictator was necessarily considered such an EVIL act. And had there been a strong, political, incorrupt leader to take over perhaps it would have been a great thing but instead it just descended into chaos and factionality, which has lead to appalling loss of human life but what is this thought that America wants Iraq as a new-style imperial colony. I just don't see that, at all.

    As for Manningham-Buller. If she had been any good at her job she ought to have been able to convince and persuade the govt according to the facts she had - the fact that she couldn't just reflects negatively on her, as far as I see it. If she had felt that strongly at the time, she should have made her feelings known and resigned from her position in protest. I don't have much time for people who bleat after the fact that it was nothing to do with them.... If you felt that, then show it at the time like Robin Cook, who resigned. Like the scientist who was then murdered (apparently committed suicide - yeah right) I have forgotten his name. You say it then, you don't say it afterwards - that is just nonsense! Cowardly nonsense.

    I say right now that this Islamo-fascism is a dangerous ideology. I say it but I am not in a position of influence to be heard. I am not going to wait until thousands are being herded into concentration camps for being kaffir and not ideologically-satisfactory and then say it. NO. Say it at the time. Do what you can to stop it at the time. Don't sit around and bleat afterwards!
  15. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Good post.

    But I'm not saying we shouldn't fight it. Germany is a fine example of why we shouldn't give up. The British government were pacifists, the US government were isolationists and as a result no one policed the world. It got to the point where even Mussolini with a poor Italian army thought he could have whatever he wanted.

    We're fighting wars over what we believe is right, which is largely democracy and human rights. By doing this we're creating enemys. That doesn't mean give up but it means tred carefully. I wonder if weapons were found in Iraq would the Iraq war have been over by now? We over through a tyrant but he wasn't in power because he didn't have supporters, his supporters joined Al Quaeda and indeed those who lost people they loved at the hands of the British and American forces turned to Al Quaeda in anger.

    One of the problems is terrorism is extremely hard to win with and extremely hard to beat!! Like Northern Ireland, the terrorists never won but they also weren't beaten, the fighting just went on and on and on and on. Given that we will never negotiate with the taliban or Al Quaeda then when will it end. The Iraqi and Afghan forces we leave incharge will still have to fight. Our only hope is that the fighting might subside a little if we're not there.

    You're right about poverty and education, numbers can be reduced if people have more confortable lives. But even with an educated society it takes time to get racism out.
  16. johnnysays

    johnnysays Well-Known Member

    I always felt that going into iraq was too much like shooting from the hip. I mean, we were giving saddam support in the 1980's and only withdrew it when he turned on our interests. We seemed to switch sides based on what we got in return. I can't help but think many of hte probems we're stuck in we somehow were involved in creating. We're an international force now, and there're few things in this world we don't have our fingers in somehow. And despite our best efforts, there're crooked people even in our own ranks.

    I also agree that terrorism cannot be eliminated. And i'm stunned we haven't killed Osama. It's a joke, honestly. It's a shame our intelligence agencies are so inept at finding the single worst man alive.

    We also need to understand this is a war against terrorists and insurgents, not islam or muslims.

    We need to be more careful about the wars we start because we're having to pay for them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2010
  17. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    Few people regret Saddam's death, and it wasn't removing him per se that was condemned as an evil act: it was the fact that we did so based on false pretenses, and through a poorly planned and under-funded war that cost far more lives than his removal was worth.
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