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Is Anyone Else Exhausted Of Society?

#1
I have to preface this by saying that I don't think I'm better, have better values or opinions than anyone else. This is simply a rant about out current narrative that takes place in society, politics, and values. It's purely opinion, and it could be dogshit for all i know.

It's the year 2020, and to me it's quite magnificent how far we've come as a world, as just 200 years ago, we went through the industrial revolution, most countries are establishing democracies, countries were establishing an independence (most recently, South Sudan in 2011), and over time, equality and love has become the leading power globally. I mean, just 75 years ago, the first computer was made and it basically took up the entire wall! Now we have tiny computers in our pockets, able to make calls anywhere on the globe, holding gigabytes of information. But enough about that.

With how far we've come, our current state of affairs is draining, pathetic and embarrassing. The fact that we, as a whole society can't come to terms on simple problems that have been part of our society since before all of this is truly infuriating. Our values have been so strained in the pursuit of money and power, attention and fame. You look at what's happening around the world; uighur Muslims are being funneled into concentration camps in China. We have millions of refugees fleeing their home country due to domestic terrorism, or mindless bombings disguised as war on terror. Argentina's prices on necessities triple in one week. The list goes on and on, and i understand that sometimes new governments have to fall to succeed, but ethnic cleansings should be an immediate priority for UN to step in, what else good is the organization if it doesn't act on it's sole purpose?
Which preludes into another point: war is a barbaric show of strength that is long outdated. There is simply no use for it anymore. All nations are established, there is no reason to lose innocent civilians who are just trying to make a paycheck because their "leader" says to. Who can justify having 13k collective nuclear warheads at their disposal? That's the highest crime of humanity, to ever use one of those. Territories are declared, civility is standard. If there's a reason for war, there's a reason to remove the person in power and have the nation fight back against it's presidents choice. Use of military action is outdated against other countries, and the problem can be resolved through UN counsel, or handled internally.

I can go on and on: 2020 and we still go back and forth about women in power, people of color, rights and freedom, death penalties, abortion, gun control. It's exhausting. How do people think that background checks = taking away guns? How do we justify cops shooting and killing anyone just because they were fleeing? Why do cops have their guns drawn before their tazors? Why do we still argue about women's right for an abortion?

Sadly, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We elect these people, let them go unchecked, let the corruption and greed play out for our own convenience. Our standards have been set so low, we're more divided than ever before. Media controls the mindless for their own agenda, including more bias than actual journalism. People are famous who shouldn't be, people who shouldn't have kids do, healthcare is a privilege and not a right (in some countries).. everything goes unchecked. The public is less in touch or involved with their government than ever before. The rich control the world and we just soak up the leftovers, and we're okay with it. The rich are worried their empires will become obsolete because of new technologies, and that's exactly what should happen! If coal isn't the best source of energy, adapt or get out of the way! Instead they pay off politicians to keep themselves essential, thus delaying our stride towards greatness.

I try to keep hope. The media shows us what we want to see, but at the same time people are so quick to take out their phone to do something good that they only do it for attention. There's still good out there, i think once this older generation dies off, we'll be better off. The greed runs so heavily through their blood. They're intimidated by the people they try to silence.

Pls don't ban or remove there's nothing controversial πŸ™‚
 

Sevven

Well-Known Member
#2
The last 2 paragraphs especially, yes.
It's sick, it's ridiculous and there's very little the small folks can do about it. I have really strong opinions on all this, but I know I'll get banned if I get into it.
I just try to live apart from the bullshit and be responsible for my role in the matrix...or out of it? I can only control me, you know? So I try to "be the change. "
It's hard to stay positive in our fucked reality.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#3
Pls don't ban or remove there's nothing controversial πŸ™‚
I can agree with you that most of what you said shouldn't be controversial, but that doesn't change the fact that some of it is.
BLM and gun ownership rights in particular have proven to be absolute clusterfucks of topics, and you saying that the older generation dying will be a good thing for the planet is inevitably not going to sit well with a number of people. (I may well be in the group that find that last part pretty messed up tbh)

I'm a liberal too, but i still acknowledge that some of my opinions do count as controversial, no matter how fundamentally righteous they seem to me.
 

UKDude

Well-Known Member
#4
Sadly, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We elect these people, let them go unchecked,
The problem is the whole system is flim flam, it's the magicians choice - a false choice, heads I win, tails you lose.

Pick one of these 2 parties, one says X, the other says Y - whichever you pick they're both going to do Z.

It makes no difference there is no alternative, only the illusion of choice, which doesn't really exist.
 

KM76710

KM stands for Kangaroo Manager
SF Supporter
#5
I can agree with much and disagree with some but yes, I do believe people get the society and community they deserve and possibly want. Ideology wise I am Libertarian which confuses some on political positions and has both right and left either hating or loving me depending on the issue. But beyond that it should be a civil debate between people and not a I win, you lose situation.
 
#6
I can agree with you that most of what you said shouldn't be controversial, but that doesn't change the fact that some of it is.
BLM and gun ownership rights in particular have proven to be absolute clusterfucks of topics, and you saying that the older generation dying will be a good thing for the planet is inevitably not going to sit well with a number of people. (I may well be in the group that find that last part pretty messed up tbh)

I'm a liberal too, but i still acknowledge that some of my opinions do count as controversial, no matter how fundamentally righteous they seem to me.
Exactly though, why are they clusterfucks of topics? its not controversial to say that thorough background checks are essential in keeping guns away from the obvious evil. It's okay to own a gun, as long as you're sane, responsible and civil. Anyone who argues against that obviously shouldn't have a gun. Gun control is to keep them away from people who shouldn't own them, not everyone. Fundamentally righteous should take priority in these opinions, devaluing any other opinions of the matter because it's exactly the problem, they shouldn't be opinions. There comes time where we all know better and they shouldn't be opinions anymore, such as slavery or civil rights. We've stopped growing because nowadays opinions are just that and we stopped fighting for what's the greater good and making these lesser opinions have a voice and justifying them due to "respect". No, I will not respect someone who thinks everyone has a right of owning a gun, or someone that thinks a dad that honor killed his daughter in Iran is justified due to culture and law, or that a woman is selfish and should be jailed for getting an abortion because she was raped or if she gives birth she'll die or have a brain dead child. Our moral compass is long outdated, what we fight about is long overdue for a modern overhaul of whats right and wrong.

And I understand that the comment about the older generation may be insensitive; i more meant that the older generation that's incurable of their racism, sexism, and ignorance. The population that can't accept new ideas, the growth of our greater good in unity and peace, and still think "respect your elders" is a must even if that elder is a disrespectful piece of shit.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#7
Fundamentally righteous should take priority in these opinions, devaluing any other opinions of the matter because it's exactly the problem, they shouldn't be opinions
I can understand your reasoning there, but you have to realise that at the same time, this is the same logic which white nationalists, hardcore misogynists, and radicalised terrorists use to justify their actions. In their minds, these beliefs are fundamentally righteous, and to them that gives them the right to proselytise their own ideals and actively harm others in pursuit of their movement's goals. All who would oppose them are lesser for not agreeing with them and subsequently deserve subjugation.

So again, while i find myself in agreement that these are topics that shouldn't be as hotly debated as they are, by putting down the beliefs of others like that and claiming that righteousness should give you the right to sell your political ideals to everyone on the basis that "It's not controversial because i say so", how are you being any more open-minded or socially conscious than they are?

True reasoned thought includes the acceptance of the idea that we are not perfect, and therefore the things we think and feel are not perfect, and never can be. And humility requires us to accept the potential that we may be wrong. We can hold these ideas close to our heart, and argue their merits, but we should never hold the "right" to proclaim that our beliefs are the one true, objectively correct way of thinking. If you want to make the world a better place, you need to actually be better than the people you claim to be better than.
 

UKDude

Well-Known Member
#9
I can understand your reasoning there, but you have to realise that at the same time, this is the same logic which white nationalists, hardcore misogynists, and radicalised terrorists use to justify their actions. In their minds, these beliefs are fundamentally righteous, and to them that gives them the right to proselytise their own ideals and actively harm others in pursuit of their movement's goals. All who would oppose them are lesser for not agreeing with them and subsequently deserve subjugation.

So again, while i find myself in agreement that these are topics that shouldn't be as hotly debated as they are, by putting down the beliefs of others like that and claiming that righteousness should give you the right to sell your political ideals to everyone on the basis that "It's not controversial because i say so", how are you being any more open-minded or socially conscious than they are?

True reasoned thought includes the acceptance of the idea that we are not perfect, and therefore the things we think and feel are not perfect, and never can be. And humility requires us to accept the potential that we may be wrong. We can hold these ideas close to our heart, and argue their merits, but we should never hold the "right" to proclaim that our beliefs are the one true, objectively correct way of thinking. If you want to make the world a better place, you need to actually be better than the people you claim to be better than.
I blame Jerry Springer, I really do.

I remember watching the first time and thinking what the hell is wrong with the people in the audience, they're like a bunch of wild animals all yelping and screaming and hollering at every little thing - being British our audience would have sat and listened and maybe given a polite round of applause here or there. But that lot, it was like they'd switched off their rational cognitive brain, and were being driven solely by they older animal emotional brain.

But it did make good tv. So to compete the next show has to become more rambunctious, more sensational, more salacious, and the next and the next, and to compete with that the media and the press, and then social media comes along and to pull people away from that you need more and more and more sensation and emotion-driven content, click bait, shock horror titles and stories...

Well, it's a bit much really to blame Jerry Springer, but I think that's in essence what happened - people were discouraged from thinking and pushed to feeling - we think about problems, try to work out issues, but we feel hungry, we feel angry, we don't think hungry, etc.

And I think this has led to probably 2 generations now who cant or wont think - they decide what they feel is right, they decide that these beliefs are right, and so anyone who disagrees with them deserves to feel some pain.

Whoever they are, one side or the other, their thinking is dichotomous and categorical - they are right, andyone who disagrees with them is therefore wrong - no middle ground, just toally black and white thinking.

Until you daren't even talk about some things because you don't know how other people will respond to them. As soon as it isn't 100% agreeing with them, you're a fascist.
 

LonelyHiker

Waitering for Godot
#10
I have to preface this by saying that I don't think I'm better, have better values or opinions than anyone else. This is simply a rant about out current narrative that takes place in society, politics, and values. It's purely opinion, and it could be dogshit for all i know.

It's the year 2020, and to me it's quite magnificent how far we've come as a world, as just 200 years ago, we went through the industrial revolution, most countries are establishing democracies, countries were establishing an independence (most recently, South Sudan in 2011), and over time, equality and love has become the leading power globally. I mean, just 75 years ago, the first computer was made and it basically took up the entire wall! Now we have tiny computers in our pockets, able to make calls anywhere on the globe, holding gigabytes of information. But enough about that.

With how far we've come, our current state of affairs is draining, pathetic and embarrassing. The fact that we, as a whole society can't come to terms on simple problems that have been part of our society since before all of this is truly infuriating. Our values have been so strained in the pursuit of money and power, attention and fame. You look at what's happening around the world; uighur Muslims are being funneled into concentration camps in China. We have millions of refugees fleeing their home country due to domestic terrorism, or mindless bombings disguised as war on terror. Argentina's prices on necessities triple in one week. The list goes on and on, and i understand that sometimes new governments have to fall to succeed, but ethnic cleansings should be an immediate priority for UN to step in, what else good is the organization if it doesn't act on it's sole purpose?
Which preludes into another point: war is a barbaric show of strength that is long outdated. There is simply no use for it anymore. All nations are established, there is no reason to lose innocent civilians who are just trying to make a paycheck because their "leader" says to. Who can justify having 13k collective nuclear warheads at their disposal? That's the highest crime of humanity, to ever use one of those. Territories are declared, civility is standard. If there's a reason for war, there's a reason to remove the person in power and have the nation fight back against it's presidents choice. Use of military action is outdated against other countries, and the problem can be resolved through UN counsel, or handled internally.

I can go on and on: 2020 and we still go back and forth about women in power, people of color, rights and freedom, death penalties, abortion, gun control. It's exhausting. How do people think that background checks = taking away guns? How do we justify cops shooting and killing anyone just because they were fleeing? Why do cops have their guns drawn before their tazors? Why do we still argue about women's right for an abortion?

Sadly, we have no one to blame but ourselves. We elect these people, let them go unchecked, let the corruption and greed play out for our own convenience. Our standards have been set so low, we're more divided than ever before. Media controls the mindless for their own agenda, including more bias than actual journalism. People are famous who shouldn't be, people who shouldn't have kids do, healthcare is a privilege and not a right (in some countries).. everything goes unchecked. The public is less in touch or involved with their government than ever before. The rich control the world and we just soak up the leftovers, and we're okay with it. The rich are worried their empires will become obsolete because of new technologies, and that's exactly what should happen! If coal isn't the best source of energy, adapt or get out of the way! Instead they pay off politicians to keep themselves essential, thus delaying our stride towards greatness.

I try to keep hope. The media shows us what we want to see, but at the same time people are so quick to take out their phone to do something good that they only do it for attention. There's still good out there, i think once this older generation dies off, we'll be better off. The greed runs so heavily through their blood. They're intimidated by the people they try to silence.

Pls don't ban or remove there's nothing controversial πŸ™‚
No need to apologize for the rant. I created an entire thread about my disgust with humanity and modern, "civilized" society:

https://www.suicideforum.com/community/threads/the-benevolent-misanthrope-thread.159746/
 
#11
I agree with you but I'm too tired to spin any thoughts... enjoyed your post though.
It was my stored energy for the month. It was brewing for the entirety of the year, now I've defaulted to jadedness.

No need to apologize for the rant. I created an entire thread about my disgust with humanity and modern, "civilized" society
Ah, but Mr. Carlin, I've bought your books! Are you telling me this was but a social experiment, and you're mocking us for doing so, making sure all the proceeds go to detrimental corporations so you can watch the world burn while saying "I told you so"?

I can understand your reasoning there, but you have to realise that at the same time, this is the same logic which white nationalists, hardcore misogynists, and radicalised terrorists use to justify their actions. In their minds, these beliefs are fundamentally righteous, and to them that gives them the right to proselytise their own ideals and actively harm others in pursuit of their movement's goals. All who would oppose them are lesser for not agreeing with them and subsequently deserve subjugation.
All it takes is a collective effort to shun those groups from publicity and having a voice. You can't make the argument that those kinds of groups are open minded, and we're far past the times in giving them any justification in their beliefs. By using my logic against me, fine, im just as ignorant as them in thinking I'm more righteous than they are, but ignorance towards some things for the greater good is needed for "issues" like equality and peace. And I know you can reply to this and say that they can use the same claim in their defense and opinion of what's right/wrong, but that'll just continue this endless "if you do, then they do" argument which wasn't my point. I know they can use the same argument in validating their thoughts, but that doesn't mean theirs are right. I guess it doesn't mean mine is right either since I'm apparently just as ignorant as they are, regardless of which side of history you want to be a part of.
 

Optimistic Goatman

The woolly enigmatic one
Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#12
All it takes is a collective effort to shun those groups from publicity and having a voice. You can't make the argument that those kinds of groups are open minded, and we're far past the times in giving them any justification in their beliefs. By using my logic against me, fine, im just as ignorant as them in thinking I'm more righteous than they are, but ignorance towards some things for the greater good is needed for "issues" like equality and peace. And I know you can reply to this and say that they can use the same claim in their defense and opinion of what's right/wrong, but that'll just continue this endless "if you do, then they do" argument which wasn't my point. I know they can use the same argument in validating their thoughts, but that doesn't mean theirs are right. I guess it doesn't mean mine is right either since I'm apparently just as ignorant as they are, regardless of which side of history you want to be a part of.
For what it's worth, i'm not calling you ignorant, or even saying that you're as bad as them in truth, all i'm saying is that the way you improve the world is by winning the majority to your side, and that often requires meeting people where they're at. If you scream and put the other side down in the same way they do, that just turns into two groups yelling at each other with nothing being achieved. I may be biased in this regard myself though, i admit, since i was actually rescued from the alt-right pipeline by breadtubers who were willing to meet me where i was at, and now i'm a diehard liberal. I see the change that has occurred in me, and that is occurring to others in my same age group as they start to wake up and smell the stench of fascism. And as a result, i find the "you're just wrong and i'm better than you" response in either side to be disheartening, because it ultimately helps nobody, all it really does achieve is making the people engaging in that response feel good momentarily.

You say you want to oust these mentalities from existence. Good. I agree with you. But i'm simply making the argument that the approach i believe in is, in my personal opinion, how you most effectively achieve that. If you make claims that your opinion is objectively right, and people are just wrong to disagree with you, and aren't worth even humouring, you risk coming across as elitist and closed-minded to the middle-ground people that make up the majority. And those are the people who are the deciding factor on whether 300 years from now, something will be seen as axiomatically self-evident, or an embarrassingly incorrect footnote in the annals of history.
 

LonelyHiker

Waitering for Godot
#13
Ah, but Mr. Carlin, I've bought your books! Are you telling me this was but a social experiment, and you're mocking us for doing so, making sure all the proceeds go to detrimental corporations so you can watch the world burn while saying "I told you so"?
Whatever remuneration George received from his standup appearances, book sales and the like are (were) peanuts compared to the obscene amounts of lucre held and illicitly acquired by the real owners ( read: criminal oligarchs) of this country and world that he so rightly and consistently (and justifiably) railed against...
 

the.end.ish

Misknown Member
#14
Suicide ideation gives me these constant conflicting thoughts between criticizing society for lack of progression and concluding that it doesn't matter. Let it all burn. I struggle with there even being a need for progression in society. Why aren't we all born with attuned moral standards that translate to policy? If we don't all know how to be kind and respectful of other cultures, religions, people, sexes ... what is the goddamned point?

But then I think we are born without those prejudices and society twists, shapes and influences our mentality to the point that these judgments become a part of our cultural identity. So, in a sense, it is about unlearning ignorant, hateful and hurtful ideologies imposed on us by powerful entities that we don't even question. When it becomes a part of our identity, we claw like hell to retain it. Some people (don't ask me who) have done some great work on what they call "implicit bias" which is sort of what I am referring to. They've shown that participating in arguments/debates about inherent ideologies almost never changes the other person's mind. (which is probably why it begins to feel hopeless)

But when we address our implicit biases ourselves, it tends to unravel those stubbornly ingrained biases.

Disclaimer: The issue is way more complex and I don't think implicit bias training is a cure all, but I think it's a good place to start. Also I'm not even sure I responded to your prompt but here are my thoughts on progression.
 
#15
i'm simply making the argument that the approach i believe in is, in my personal opinion, how you most effectively achieve that. If you make claims that your opinion is objectively right, and people are just wrong to disagree with you, and aren't worth even humouring, you risk coming across as elitist and closed-minded to the middle-ground people that make up the majority. And those are the people who are the deciding factor on whether 300 years from now, something will be seen as axiomatically self-evident, or an embarrassingly incorrect footnote in the annals of history.
I don't disagree at all. Unfortunately the only way to accomplish this Is with good faith, persistence and patience, one at a time. Through example, through teaching. I never meant to imply that it should just be one way, I was only voicing my frustration on how we aren't at the point of undisputed equality and acceptance.
 

tlaud

Well-Known Member
#16
Suicide ideation gives me these constant conflicting thoughts between criticizing society for lack of progression and concluding that it doesn't matter. Let it all burn. I struggle with there even being a need for progression in society. Why aren't we all born with attuned moral standards that translate to policy? If we don't all know how to be kind and respectful of other cultures, religions, people, sexes ... what is the goddamned point?

But then I think we are born without those prejudices and society twists, shapes and influences our mentality to the point that these judgments become a part of our cultural identity. So, in a sense, it is about unlearning ignorant, hateful and hurtful ideologies imposed on us by powerful entities that we don't even question. When it becomes a part of our identity, we claw like hell to retain it. Some people (don't ask me who) have done some great work on what they call "implicit bias" which is sort of what I am referring to. They've shown that participating in arguments/debates about inherent ideologies almost never changes the other person's mind. (which is probably why it begins to feel hopeless)

But when we address our implicit biases ourselves, it tends to unravel those stubbornly ingrained biases.

Disclaimer: The issue is way more complex and I don't think implicit bias training is a cure all, but I think it's a good place to start. Also I'm not even sure I responded to your prompt but here are my thoughts on progression.
You hit the center of the target, Bullseye!!! I truly believe we had no prejudices when we were slapped on the ass in the delivery room.
 
#18
Suicide ideation gives me these constant conflicting thoughts between criticizing society for lack of progression and concluding that it doesn't matter. Let it all burn. I struggle with there even being a need for progression in society. Why aren't we all born with attuned moral standards that translate to policy? If we don't all know how to be kind and respectful of other cultures, religions, people, sexes ... what is the goddamned point?

But then I think we are born without those prejudices and society twists, shapes and influences our mentality to the point that these judgments become a part of our cultural identity. So, in a sense, it is about unlearning ignorant, hateful and hurtful ideologies imposed on us by powerful entities that we don't even question. When it becomes a part of our identity, we claw like hell to retain it. Some people (don't ask me who) have done some great work on what they call "implicit bias" which is sort of what I am referring to. They've shown that participating in arguments/debates about inherent ideologies almost never changes the other person's mind. (which is probably why it begins to feel hopeless)

But when we address our implicit biases ourselves, it tends to unravel those stubbornly ingrained biases.

Disclaimer: The issue is way more complex and I don't think implicit bias training is a cure all, but I think it's a good place to start. Also I'm not even sure I responded to your prompt but here are my thoughts on progression.
It's amazing I came here to bitch about how pathetic we are, yet here I go, spewing my optimism onto you. Keep in mind this is all opinion.

I like to think of it as a test. We aren't born with those morals, but we are born with the most impressionable minds at youth. Every generation can be seen as an improvement of the last, at least that's what our desire should be. We're supposed to learn from our mistakes growing up, our parents mistakes in raising us, and their parents in raising them. The point is to evolve into that, and yeah we may be failing, yeah we may never see the outcome of our efforts or progress, but we can die knowing we fought for it, and graced the world with our energy instead of our misery like the ones we're talking about. It all starts with one person, a ripple effect to reach your friends' friends, raising your kids to positively influence their friends. I grew up with my dad watching a very biased, dividing media outlet. It made him angry at the wrong people, fear the wrong people, and blame. He made racist jokes in front of me, ate up the bullshit that was shoveled into his mind. But I didn't turn out like that, nor did my brother, and he's coming along as well.

That question can be asked regardless of any issue.. whats it all for? There doesn't seem to be a point for any of this, even if we weren't fighting about pointless shit. But the optimism in me says it's for everything, as we have this life for some reason, or by some coincidence of science. I like to think we can achieve righteousness as a whole, it's even a simple concept. But we are too comfortable in our lives to do anything about it. We don't care enough, we don't think it'll succeed. But if everyone who felt this way stood up and collectively fought for the cause, it would be surprising to see the turnout. We'd outnumber the loud minority 10 to 1.
 

PrincessPure

Well-Known Member
#19
Yes, I am. I hate the concept of "growing up" and "being mature". It kills the fun. So what if i'm in my 20s and still dress up like a preppy girl would? What if my parents still call me a princess and what if i'm all "superficial" and all interested in makeup and fashion and girly things and won't focus on anything deeper? It's not related to YOU if I don't wanna have a job (Well I have one but congratz, the only reason I have a job is people's judgement and my parents always told me I didn't need to have a job until I graduate)

I think it is so much of an hypocrisy how people think it's OK to judge people like me but we still shouldn't judge people for what they do. NO I DON'T HAVE DADDY ISSUES. I just hate being so "deep" that I will suffer from a depression in the end. Being deep sucks, people who are deep suck the fun out of the party and are annoying.
 

PrincessPure

Well-Known Member
#20
It's all because an idiot told me I am over-populating the earth only because I'm not as boring as he is. And it was not the only one to say such gross things. Yikes.
 

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