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Is Christianity really Christian?

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Bob26003

Well-Known Member
#1
THe hypocrisy is astounding IMO. We have yet another Evangelical Gay Bashing Mega Church minister revealing he slept with a man.

And to think that Rev. Ted Haggerd has a weekly visit to the Whitehouse.

Why do so many Christians advocate Murder in the form of War?

Why do they advocate stepping on the poor?

What the Hell is going on in our Churches?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to hear you thoughts
 

the other guy

Well-Known Member
#2
I was Christian for a long time, but a few years back i became a Rev of the Unity Light Church, where they have not real set religion.

But the last year I wonder if there is a "afterlife", if there is a God as such, why are we living such crappy lives? And now with "the Divinci Code", doesn't that make u think about religion in general?
 

JohnADreams

Well-Known Member
#3
Thats the problem with organized religion, the power and hierarchy soon becomes more important than the compassion. Remove the power from a religion and the more corrupt members of society will flock somewhere else, leaving that faith for some of the more positive people in this world.
 

TG123

Well-Known Member
#6
THe hypocrisy is astounding IMO. We have yet another Evangelical Gay Bashing Mega Church minister revealing he slept with a man.

And to think that Rev. Ted Haggerd has a weekly visit to the Whitehouse.

Why do so many Christians advocate Murder in the form of War?

Why do they advocate stepping on the poor?

What the Hell is going on in our Churches?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to hear you thoughts
These people act this way because they are not true Christians. A Christian is someone who believes in Christ and seeks to follow Him.

'Christians' who advocate war disobey Jesus, who taught us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek even when we are attacked.

'Christians' who oppress the poor or are merely indifferent also disobey the Gospel, which teaches that Jesus is incarnated among the poor and that what is done to them is done to Him.

Not all people who say they follow Jesus actually do so. Christ warns against people who call Him 'Lord, Lord' but did not do as He commanded and did not really follow Him- they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The problem is not with Christianity, the problem is with the self-righteousness and hypocrisy of those who say they follow Christ but in fact do not.

There are many true Christians, people who do believe in Jesus and follow Him. They are people who would never advocate war or oppression of the poor, but on the contrary stand up for the victims. Some Christian groups and churches you may want to look at:

http://www.mennoniteusa.org/

http://www.cpt.org/index.html

http://www.mcc.org/

http://www.lwr.org/

Please do not let the actions and words of the hypocrites deter you from turning to Jesus. They do not represent either Him or the Gospel.

The fact that some hypocrites advocate war does not change the fact He told us to love our enemies. The fact that some hypocrites make $$ to be their God does not change the fact that He is God, and that He demands us to live and serve the poor instead of oppress them.

The fact that they follow Satan while saying they are Christians does not change the fact that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light and that His way is the right way.

Just because they choose to go astray does not change the fact that His Way can be followed.

Reject their hypocrisy. Accept Him.

Cristo Vive!
- Tomasz
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#7
Why are so many football fans hooligans?
It's not because they are fans of football.

(Oh that's soccer for all you Americans out there! :biggrin: )
 
#8
I tend to think that christianity and christians are often very different things. There are many good things in the christian faith that I would agree with, there are also a lot of things I wouldn't agree with, which is why I'm not a christian. I think the problem with the evangelical gay bashing war-mongering lot is that they pick out the parts of christianity that suit their own agenders and discard the rest. They haven't actually understood their religion, but instead just quote bits from a badly translated book, half of which is jewish history anyway. I'm going off into a bit of a rant now and I really don't want to offend anybody who is a christian, cos there are some out there who really do believe and try to be good people. It seems to be that the church, especially the church in america I have to say, has been severly corrupted by the selfish urges of it's leaders.

No offense intended to anyone, honest :unsure:
 
P

ProzacDeathWish

#9
These people act this way because they are not true Christians. A Christian is someone who believes in Christ and seeks to follow Him.

'Christians' who advocate war disobey Jesus, who taught us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek even when we are attacked.

'Christians' who oppress the poor or are merely indifferent also disobey the Gospel, which teaches that Jesus is incarnated among the poor and that what is done to them is done to Him.

Not all people who say they follow Jesus actually do so. Christ warns against people who call Him 'Lord, Lord' but did not do as He commanded and did not really follow Him- they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

The problem is not with Christianity, the problem is with the self-righteousness and hypocrisy of those who say they follow Christ but in fact do not.

There are many true Christians, people who do believe in Jesus and follow Him. They are people who would never advocate war or oppression of the poor, but on the contrary stand up for the victims. Some Christian groups and churches you may want to look at:

http://www.mennoniteusa.org/

http://www.cpt.org/index.html

http://www.mcc.org/

http://www.lwr.org/

Please do not let the actions and words of the hypocrites deter you from turning to Jesus. They do not represent either Him or the Gospel.

The fact that some hypocrites advocate war does not change the fact He told us to love our enemies. The fact that some hypocrites make $$ to be their God does not change the fact that He is God, and that He demands us to live and serve the poor instead of oppress them.

The fact that they follow Satan while saying they are Christians does not change the fact that Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light and that His way is the right way.

Just because they choose to go astray does not change the fact that His Way can be followed.

Reject their hypocrisy. Accept Him.

Cristo Vive!
- Tomasz


Dear TG123, are you REALLY a person struggling with sincere emotional issues or do you simply come to the Suicide Forum to "harvest" souls for Jesus ?

I am sure that there are many Christians on this forum who are sincere about their faith and who essentially agree with your message, but unlike them, your constant prosyletizing is becoming a predictable distraction.

I don't know what's in your head, but you are beginning to look like someone
who has commandeered this forum for the express purpose of evangelizing.

Sharing one's religious perspective is something that goes on here from time to time and should always be accepted but you are beginning to push the limits of tolerance.

This is a forum that was set up primarily for those of us who have deeply ingrained emotional issues that frequently push us to the brink of suicide; in other words we are desperate people and when we come to this forum we are at our weakest and most vulnerable.

I consider it bad form for someone like yourself to then come here and start shoving Jesus in our face, trying to make converts out of us.

Speaking as an atheist, I consider ALL forms of spirituality to be to be equally invalid ( and have said so, elsewhere ), but so far you are the ONLY religious person on this forum that I have considered to be rude.
 

theleastofthese

SF Friend
Staff Alumni
#10
I am in agreement with what JohnADreams and TG123 said: Christianity is populated by a lot of very un-christian people. I like what Gandhi said once: "I like your Christ. I do not like your christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Amen to that!!

Christianity must be lived, not just screamed out. True Christians can be distinguished by their behavior and attitudes, what they do and don't say, as opposed to the screaming hateful Bible-thumping crowd.:dry: :sad:

I find more encouragement in the New Testament: "a new commandment I give unto you that you love your neighbor as you love yourself" and "that which you do unto the least of these, my brethren, you do unto me." Now I can live with that...:smile:

least
 

TG123

Well-Known Member
#11
Dear TG123, are you REALLY a person struggling with sincere emotional issues or do you simply come to the Suicide Forum to "harvest" souls for Jesus ?
When I was in jr high school, I was at the point of committing suicide. The demons still do come back to me and yes, I do get depressed. A good friend I once had left me, and it has been and continues to be very painful.
I am struggling with many emotional issues, last week I was looking down from a bridge and thinking about jumping into the ice.

So yes, thanks for asking, I am struggling with many of the same issues that others are on this forum.

I also know that the reason I am still alive is because of God. I am kept going by Him, and He has prevented me from taking my life. I do feel pain and rejection but I also know I have hope in Him. And yes, I am eager to share the Gospel with others because it saved me and it can save others as well.

People are here to offer others help. I have seen advice given to people who cannot find a girlfriend to just 'hit' on every woman they meet, and no one is up in arms against that. I do not agree with that approach but I also know that the person who offered it did so with best intentions.

I believe that God can help everyone here, and so yes, I will tell people that He is there and that He loves them and that they can turn to Him.

I am sure that there are many Christians on this forum who are sincere about their faith and who essentially agree with your message, but unlike them, your constant prosyletizing is becoming a predictable distraction.

I don't know what's in your head, but you are beginning to look like someone
who has commandeered this forum for the express purpose of evangelizing.

Sharing one's religious perspective is something that goes on here from time to time and should always be accepted but you are beginning to push the limits of tolerance.
I am as guilty of 'evangelizing' as is anyone who shares his or her advice with another person on here. You tell people what you think will help them, I am doing the same.


This is a forum that was set up primarily for those of us who have deeply ingrained emotional issues that frequently push us to the brink of suicide; in other words we are desperate people and when we come to this forum we are at our weakest and most vulnerable.
I know what it is like to be pushed to the brink of suicide, and I know what it is like to feel there is no hope or no way out. I also know what it is like to know that in spite of all the suffering we go through that there is indeed hope for a better future. I am no less weak or vulnerable than you or other people here, but God is keeping me going. The only help I can give is to let people know that He cares about them and is willing to help them. I will not stop offering this help.

I consider it bad form for someone like yourself to then come here and start shoving Jesus in our face, trying to make converts out of us.
I am not shoving Jesus or anyone or anything else in your face, you are free to ignore my posts and words and to even condemn them. No one is forcing you to read what I have to say, and no one is going to force you to believe either. It is your choice.

Speaking as an atheist, I consider ALL forms of spirituality to be to be equally invalid ( and have said so, elsewhere ), but so far you are the ONLY religious person on this forum that I have considered to be rude.
I consider some of your posts about Christianity to be rude as well, posts which I read through which were not connected to any thread I started. Actually my post was in response to a thread about Christianity that I did not even start.

Cristo Vive!
- Tomasz
 
P

ProzacDeathWish

#12
When I was in jr high school, I was at the point of committing suicide. The demons still do come back to me and yes, I do get depressed. A good friend I once had left me, and it has been and continues to be very painful.
I am struggling with many emotional issues, last week I was looking down from a bridge and thinking about jumping into the ice.

So yes, thanks for asking, I am struggling with many of the same issues that others are on this forum.

I also know that the reason I am still alive is because of God. I am kept going by Him, and He has prevented me from taking my life. I do feel pain and rejection but I also know I have hope in Him. And yes, I am eager to share the Gospel with others because it saved me and it can save others as well.

People are here to offer others help. I have seen advice given to people who cannot find a girlfriend to just 'hit' on every woman they meet, and no one is up in arms against that. I do not agree with that approach but I also know that the person who offered it did so with best intentions.

I believe that God can help everyone here, and so yes, I will tell people that He is there and that He loves them and that they can turn to Him.

I am sure that there are many Christians on this forum who are sincere about their faith and who essentially agree with your message, but unlike them, your constant prosyletizing is becoming a predictable distraction.


I am as guilty of 'evangelizing' as is anyone who shares his or her advice with another person on here. You tell people what you think will help them, I am doing the same.



I know what it is like to be pushed to the brink of suicide, and I know what it is like to feel there is no hope or no way out. I also know what it is like to know that in spite of all the suffering we go through that there is indeed hope for a better future. I am no less weak or vulnerable than you or other people here, but God is keeping me going. The only help I can give is to let people know that He cares about them and is willing to help them. I will not stop offering this help.


I am not shoving Jesus or anyone or anything else in your face, you are free to ignore my posts and words and to even condemn them. No one is forcing you to read what I have to say, and no one is going to force you to believe either. It is your choice.


I consider some of your posts about Christianity to be rude as well, posts which I read through which were not connected to any thread I started. Actually my post was in response to a thread about Christianity that I did not even start.

Cristo Vive!
- Tomasz


Thank you TG123 for your thoughtfully worded rebuttal. I feel honored that
you thought I merited such a "spirited" reply. My observation concerning your overzealousness is perhaps not as unjustified as you might think. I see from reading some of your other posts that your evangelizing has struck a raw nerve with some forum members other than myself.


I am a former fundamentalist, protestant Christian who is now an unbeliever. BTW, If you think that I was just a "pretend" Christian who never really accepted Christ and that "real" Christians could never abandon their faith, then I suggest that you read Hebrews 6:4-6 and ask yourself why the author of Hebrews would warn that:

"It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age
, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentence, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace"

I was as real a Christian as it's possible to be and for longer than you've been alive, ( I read your posts, too ). When it came to following Christ and living my faith, I was no poser. When it comes to Christianity I am no outsider looking in. As far as the promises of Jesus were concerned, I eventually found them to be hollow and lifeless.

And lastly, you have every right to speak your mind on this forum.....and so do I.
 
T

thecleric

#13
These people act this way because they are not true Christians. A Christian is someone who believes in Christ and seeks to follow Him.

'Christians' who advocate war disobey Jesus, who taught us to love our enemies and turn the other cheek even when we are attacked.
Yes, but---ignoring the suffering of others (by refusing to fight a dictator) is a sin of ommission. It's a lack of love for your neighbor. Real world wars are always a judgement call, but the moral logic of a just war is pretty clear.

'Christians' who oppress the poor or are merely indifferent also disobey the Gospel, which teaches that Jesus is incarnated among the poor and that what is done to them is done to Him.
Yes, but---that doesn't mean that the government should encourage dependency. The best charity seeks to bring dignity to the poor. And dignity can only be earned, not handed out.


Christ certainly wasn't a right-wing gun nut, but He was also certainly not a pinko.

Vivat Jesus.
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#14
"ignoring the suffering of others (by refusing to fight a dictator) is a sin of ommission. It's a lack of love for your neighbor."

Didn't the Jews hope that Jesus was the Messiah who would overthrow the Roman occupiers? So I guess because he didn't lead a revolt against the Roman dictator at the time he simply ignored the suffering of others. (Come to think of it how many 'just' wars fought by Christians can be considered to be 'just'?)
 
P

ProzacDeathWish

#15
"ignoring the suffering of others (by refusing to fight a dictator) is a sin of ommission. It's a lack of love for your neighbor."

Didn't the Jews hope that Jesus was the Messiah who would overthrow the Roman occupiers? So I guess because he didn't lead a revolt against the Roman dictator at the time he simply ignored the suffering of others. (Come to think of it how many 'just' wars fought by Christians can be considered to be 'just'?)
Just wars fought by Christians ? How about the Crusades (1095-1291) ? Those were just wars weren't they ? .... ooops, no wait, scratch that!!

"Kill all of them, God will recognise his own!"

Words spoken by Arnald Almaric, a papal appointee :pope: , Abbot of Cleteaux, just before he entered the French city of Bezeirs to slaughter the Albigenses, who were considered to be Christian heretics.
 
T

thecleric

#16
"ignoring the suffering of others (by refusing to fight a dictator) is a sin of ommission. It's a lack of love for your neighbor."

Didn't the Jews hope that Jesus was the Messiah who would overthrow the Roman occupiers? So I guess because he didn't lead a revolt against the Roman dictator at the time he simply ignored the suffering of others. (Come to think of it how many 'just' wars fought by Christians can be considered to be 'just'?)
Would sitting out WW2 have been the Christian thing to do?

There--I've brought up Hitler, so this topic is, by Godwin's Law, ended.
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#17
I'm not sure the Catholic church took much of a stance against Hitler. It's been said that the Pope appeared indifferent as to what was going on.

So what about the situation in Cambodia, Rowanda etc? It seems to me there's an element of hypocrisy in Christianity that annoys me.

I've met some Christians (not on this forum) who say they love their neighbours but forced homosexuals out of the church, thought they were helping people out but ended up distressing them and ignoring what their real problems were, they preached love and forgiveness but were neither loving or forgiving. What gets me is that no matter how bad these people were they were so convinced that they were saved and other people were going to hell, merely 'cos they could quote what they'd read in a book.

In the end each person is an individual, you can only judge an individual (or maybe only God can judge an individual?) I have to keep bearing in mind that I can't instantly judge all the other people of the same race, creed and colour as other people I've come across.
 
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T

thecleric

#18
Again, sorry to leave you all hanging. But I'm just not able to continue this discussion right now. So you win.
 

Ziggy

Antiquitie's Friend
#19
Hey it's not about winning or losing.
It's just about expressing personal opinions and preferences.
Like you go to the pub, have a drink and argue with your mates about which is the best football team...

Obviously my mate loses 'cos he supports Liverpool but we still all get on :smile:
 

Esmeralda

Well-Known Member
#20
I am in agreement with what JohnADreams and TG123 said: Christianity is populated by a lot of very un-christian people. I like what Gandhi said once: "I like your Christ. I do not like your christians. They are so unlike your Christ." Amen to that!!

Christianity must be lived, not just screamed out. True Christians can be distinguished by their behavior and attitudes, what they do and don't say, as opposed to the screaming hateful Bible-thumping crowd.:dry: :sad:

I find more encouragement in the New Testament: "a new commandment I give unto you that you love your neighbor as you love yourself" and "that which you do unto the least of these, my brethren, you do unto me." Now I can live with that...:smile:

least
Definitely. But something for those on the board who suffer from low self-esteem to consider: In stating that we should love our neighbors AS we love ourselves, Jesus is telling us that we must love ourselves. We are worthy of His love and we must acknowledge that by doing the best we can to love ourselves.
 
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