Is it more of a danger sign if you have detailed visions of how it would go down?

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by MotownJohnny, Jan 15, 2014.

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  1. MotownJohnny

    MotownJohnny Member

    Because it seems like it's one thing to say "I want to die" or "I want to kill myself".

    I have a very specific mental vision of exactly how I would do it -- the method, the place, the time of day, the day of the week, what I would wear, what I would do first to say goodbye to the world, such as what I would eat for my "last meal", what music I would listen to as I did it, how I would get to the location, on my favorite bike, with the means in a case strapped across my back, even stupid little things like I want to die wearing Ralph Lauren Polo Black cologne, with a fresh haircut, beard neatly trimmed or clean shaven, one of the few things I can't decide on, and photo of my dog in my breast pocket.

    I don't have a specific date or anything, or specific plans to do this at this point, it's more of a "doomsday scenario" in case something happens to necessitate it. I don't WANT to have to do it -- it's kind of like nuclear war, if one side launches against me, I have to retaliate ... in other words, should they try to lock me up or something like that, this would be my response if I had any time or ability to do so.
  2. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    honestly, yes.. the more detailed you are, the more serious the threat of you actually following through is

    that being said... it doesn't mean its too late to save you from yourself.
    you need to get help... whether that means gettting meds/changing meds/getting hospitalization, idk... but i do know there is still a part of you that wants to survive and as long as that part exists you should listen to it. being "locked up" isn't as bad as it seems like it would be. its not even as bad as i remember being grounded as a child was... true, you have set rules and set limitations ... but its not anything really super bad.... why would being hospitalized trigger you into suicide?
  3. Witty_Sarcasm

    Witty_Sarcasm Writer, Musician, Fun Lover, Magic Maker

    Honestly, I'm not sure. I've had some pretty vivid visions of how I would go out, but I wasn't any closer to doing it than I had been before. The times that I was closest to ending it were more on impulse than anything. I hope you don't follow through on your plans and that you keep reaching out.
  4. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Quieta non movere

    Dont have answer for you as my plans are coming to fruitation plans are going the right way the only thing right now is my dog. Shes still alive and I know I still have to still be here as I am her best buddy. Where is your dog right now?
  5. Syn

    Syn Well-Known Member

    Yes and no. The more detailed, the more you have thought about it. Which would seem like it increases risk. However, sometimes just thinking and planning suicide can be a way to get your mind off your problems for a bit (Nothing in this world matter when you're dead type thing), which could be a good thing therefore it's possible a more detailed plan could go along with a decreased risk. Realistically, the details don't matter. It's how you feel. Maybe one day someone is walking down the street, really depressed/suicidal, and they go to cross a busy street to get to wherever they are going. They see a bus coming by and impulsively they jump into it's path. They didn't really plan it with any detail, but maybe just taking a moment and thinking how nice it would be to be rid of everything they miss the chance to jump. I mean, really if you're trying to tell how at risk you are, I think the only way to tell is to listen to your heart, cheesy as it sounds. Just make sure you're listening to your heart and not the suicidal voices/feelings in your mind.
  6. MotownJohnny

    MotownJohnny Member

    demuredawn -- please don't take this personally. The extreme anger I am about to vent is not aimed at you, or anyone here. I find solace and comfort on these types of forums, from my fellow travelers in this boat, the USS Despair. They are the best people, despite what society thinks of us. And, unless you're a Catherine Zeta Jones or a Billy Joe Armstrong with a score of paparazzi to chase your limo to the gates of the $5,000 a night rehab facility, what society thinks is that we are so much human garbage.

    I don't know if I want to save myself from myself, or anyone else. I am really on the fence. Half of me thinks yes, it would be great, as long as I didn't have to live haunted hour by hour, sometimes minute by minute, of what I endured in the past 17 months and the past 48 years I have been alive. The other half of me sees it as hopeless, and ultimately inevitable, just a question of if it happens on timescale of months, years, or decades -- I'm really into pop music and pop culture, so I can come up with a lyric or quotation for almost everything, and the one that comes to mind is from a Sheryl Crow song, "'All I wanna do is have a little fun before I die', said the man next to me from out of nowhere" -- well, I'm her guy, that's me, I have had a f'ed up, crappy life through no fault of my own, I've always had to swim against the current, and, well, I'm sick of it. Whack job father who used to beat the s*** out of me if I "failed" and failing meant a B+ or A- on some test or paper instead of an A or A+, who abused my mother and called her a w**** because he was out of his mind paranoid delusional and imagined and accused her of sleeping with 20, 30, 40 men a day, each and every day, while he was at work, who cut us off from the outside world, banished her relatives from our lives for decades, and liked to clean his guns all the time, so he could point one at me every once and a while and tell me I was a worthless piece of **** who deserved to die. But, in public, I had to love and adore him, worship him, idolize him, because if I didn't woe be upon me once we were in private. Because the only thing my childhood resembles is North Korea, with dear old dad as The Great Leader, beloved of all in public, feared by all in private, only staying in power because you could be rubbed out at any time for any transgression.

    Because another whack job wanted to kill me 08/04/2012 just because I was doing my job to the best of my ability, doing it well, and doing exactly what I was supposed to do, and it p***ed him off. Because the girlfriend this parasite leached off of wasn't getting enough money from her parent's trust each month to support his expensive drug habit. Because I crumbled after that, and ended up thrown into some stupid day hospital program 5 weeks later, only because I steadfastly refused to go inpatient like some quack doctor wanted. Because it did nothing for me but make me feel like a criminal. Because maybe I'm totally unenlightened, but in my world, needing any kind of psychiatric treatment is seen as a disgrace, because I hear people comment all of the time now about "the crazies" or whatever, and until this happened and I became aware I had no clue about how pervasive the bigotry is in the Land of Free and the Home of the Brave. Because the day hospital thing was a big joke -- "arts and crafts", "relaxation" -- yeah, that'll do it. Three fricken weeks after I see the shrink, who told me I needed to go to on the spot to the ER and check myself in, but then let me wander the streets of Metro Detroit completely alone, no anxiety or anti-depressants like I desperately needed, left me hanging for 3 weeks until the day program could take me in, for what it was worth. Which wasn't much.

    Not that I'm bitter or anything like that.

    I have thrown everything I have at this - as long as it's outpatient so no one knows -- and nada. No peace, no closure, no sense that I'm anything but the scum of the earth. I must be the scum of the earth, because they treated me like I was some kind of dangerous criminal, even if the only person I was even potentially dangerous to was myself. Well, my life, my choice. I didn't ask anyone to save me from myself, I didn't need saving from myself at that point, not until the quack condemned me, based on a five minute diagnosis. And in that instant, 08/22/2012 at 3:10 pm, my life as I knew it ceased to exist. And, I want that back more than anyone knows, but that is denied me. Do I need being saved from myself now -- no, my life, my choice. Deal with it, people, deal with it.

    So, I've tried psychiatry, drugs, psychotherapy, hypnosis, guided imagery, naturopathy, massage therapy, spiritual counseling, extreme fitness training. The only thing that helps, really, for a while is pushing my body physically to the point of exhaustion and pain, the "runner's high" and it wears off, so I do it to extreme excess, getting in as many tough workouts each week as I possibly can, until it hurts and I puke from the pain, but it is the only pain that feels good.

    I will NEVER allow myself to be put in that situation against my will, and if they try, I will resist with everything I have -- "live free or die". And, if they succeed in locking me up, they better throw away the key, because the second I'm out of there, I'm out of there forever that time. But, of course, it would all be for my own good if they locked me up, strapped me down, and left me to p*** and drool on myself. Yeah, right. The first time was "for my own good" and it has ruined my life. All I wanted was a little help, a little comfort, and some hope. What I got was the same iron fist I got from my father, but this time with a healthy dose of humiliation for good measure.

    Am I enlightened about mental health care -- I guess not. Call me a bigot, call me whatever, I have to call a spade a spade. Who in their right mind came up with this concept that it's ok to treat people like criminals because of what really is a biologically based illness? Lock them up, strap them down, drug them up, but "it's for their own good" -- so they can go back into a society that views them as somewhere between a spree shooter and a social parasite, no matter who or what they really are, no matter if they are the kindest, most virtuous person on the face of the earth. Hester Prynn on prozac.

    Not that I'm bitter, mind you.

    Witty_Sarcasm -- thank you, that is sweet.

    DrownedFish -- moving between the sofa and the floor in front of the fireplace, which is on, as is his usual MO at night. He used to jump up in bed with me quite a bit, but he is getting older and finds it harder to do, plus frankly I am too generous with the treats, he could stand to lose a few pounds. He's my only son, what can I say.
  7. demuredawn

    demuredawn Well-Known Member

    hi motown,

    ty for your response. i am truly sorry you went through so much abuse. i too have had weapons pointed at/held up against me, so i understand the psychological pain that puts you through... and its vast. i also understand your harshness against society for the way in which they treat and look upon anyone that has psychological/mental/emotional disorders. it is not right, you are right. my answer to your question about if it means you are in more serious danger if you can visualize almost everything down to the tee, comes from my knowledge of how they do suicide evaluations. i can tell you... if you can tell them "yes i am suicidal b/c i think about and want death" and "yes i know how i would do it" , and "yes i have considered certain times/places (or yes i know the time/place) i wish to do it" and "yes i have access to the method i would choose or yes i have a valid way of obtaining access to the method i would choose" .. you will find you are on their alert radar screen for needing intensive and/or critical care; sometimes you will get the docs that increase how often you need to come to an appointment and change your medications and/or their dosages, other times you will land yourself in the hospital. that's just the way it is measured/evaluated on the "risk scale".

    i realize your anger is not intended toward me. i do want to say this though... some of the things you are angry at, (like them locking you up, for example) are done simply because they are unsure how to best treat us when we get to the point that we are refusing to do the things that could possibly save us and that they are able to do for us, as well as to protect others b/c many people willl actually kill off someone for trying to stop them from committing suicide if they are in process of trying to do so (as in actually starting to use the method) or are enroute to get access to their method. i strongly believe much of the reason for the things that are said of us by the general population in society, is said because of the fear they have because they know this is not something they have control over and therefore it scares them because they don't want to end up like this anymore than we wanted to... a lot of people when scared will say a lot of hurtful things to make the person that is scaring them go away. is this right? no. but... it is still a reality.

    i said all that to say this. you said that you don't know if you want to be saved from yourself. you said that its your life and we should get over it and just let you do as you wish to do ... i read those things. but, they conflict with each other too....and here's why: if you don't know if you want to be saved from yourself, that implies part of you wants to be saved, and another part does not... therefore when you say to let you do as you wish to do, which part are we supposed to see as the part that is in authority of you... the part that wants to live, or the part that doesn't?

    i understand that you are afraid of being hospitalized based on the one experience you have had... it is possible however, that was just a bad experience that would not be repeated ... especially if you go to a different hospital this time. honestly, when it comes down to it, if you or anyone listens to that part of you that wants to live, the plain truth of it, is that you or whoever is listening to that side has to ignore what the part of you that does not want to live is saying in regards to your treatment and the only way to help you at that point comes down to disabling the effect that part of you can have on the part of you that does want to live. like i said, this doesn't always mean locking you up, sometimes it can be medication and more frequent appointments.

    you said that you have tried psychotherapy... have you tried every type, or just one or two diff kinds? there are a lot out there... here's a list: , one other that i know of that was not mentioned on that list is called Experiential Therapy, this is a description of that:

    you have tried "healthy living" .. does that just mean making sure you are exercising and eating foods that are considered healthy for you? or did you take into account the specific exercises that will produce dopamine/seratonin, and foods and juices that will give you added vitamins and minerals you may need based on a blood test being done to determine which ones you may be deficient in, or even foods that just give you an added boost of energy, etc

    you have tried a lot of things it seems... but one thing i did not see on your list that i have been trying myself recently and finding a lot of success with it. its called aromatherapy. it sounds too simplistic to truly help, as all it is basically is smelling different aromas... but it does help me a lot more than any medication ever did. if/when you decide to try this, be sure to buy only essential oils that are therapeutic range as the others will not help you. here is some info on aromatherapy: (this explains the basics of aromatherapy), (this gives a listing of the oils that are used most frequently as they have the most uses), (this is the site i use to purchase my essential oils --- even the 0.5oz size has lasted me and my husband over a month, so its well worth the prices)

    there are also herbs that can help you. here is some information on that:

    you said you have done massage therapy, but have you tried deep tissue massage therapy (yes, they are completely different things)

    there are many diff things that i have not tried either, but have been shown to help both with depression and other mental disorders... including stuff like yoga, martial arts, chiropractic care, accupuncture, accupressure

    there are aslo things that are available in some countries and as of yet not available in the USA... a lot of stem cell therapy, for instance.

    there's a lot of things out there, but you need to research to find a lot of them.... i encourage you to do so... after all, whats the use in giving up before you have tried everything and know without a doubt there is NOTHING that can/will help you, right?
  8. SuicideSam

    SuicideSam Banned Member

    I have 3 methods and what I need to execute them just waiting. The whole procedure is running through my head almost constantly, in vivid detail from start to finish not even missing a single detail. Makes it abit hard to concentrate on conversations or tasks but I manage. I agree with you on the extreme excersize it does help. The harder you push yourself the more you can forget. But its a temporary fix.

    I think society hates us because we are a reminder of what they fear. They will happily destroy you just so they can have peace of mind
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