Is it right for WikiLeaks to be leaking massive amounts of American intelligence?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by aoeu, Nov 29, 2010.


Is WikiLeaks doing good or bad?

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
  3. Not sure

    7 vote(s)
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  1. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member


    I think government transparency is a requirement for a democracy, and it's been a complete system failure that transparency is mostly lacking in virtually every country in the world. Go WikiLeaks!
  2. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    I think it is complex.

    I find it to be more harmful than good, but it does need to be allowed, and it can be argued that it is sort of like a "necessary evil".

    Not quite the wording I want to use but gets my general view across.
  3. All these mixed emotions

    All these mixed emotions Well-Known Member

    I think its amazing work that wikileaks does, ofc at the expense of some "minor" information that is being posted... I think its a smal price to pay, the information is more valuable as it may lead to;

    A. Governments will shape up their act
    B. Its good that the watchers are being watched themselfs
    C. A better democratic klimate will be there, 'cause now we also know more and can more easaliy make our minds up in these complex questions.

    I am kinnda looking forward to the exposing of the banks!
    The other stuff isnt acctually news for those who already know how the world is run.

    Anyways, topgrade work from Assange and he has major balls, and that is always a welcome thing in a world run by ignorance and evil combined with hard life and PTSD to the roof...

    we be better of knowing than not to know

  4. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I don't understand the poll options. Is it good or bad, yes or no? It would be easier to respond if the option choices were "good" "bad" and "unsure". Yes or no to what? It's not really a yes or no type of question if ya dig.

    But anyway, I'm all for wikileaks and I hope they release every damned thing they find. I'm of the personal opinion that wikileaks is actually our own intelligence operation. The government isn't that dumb to let this be known overtly though. I also believe none of the information being released through it is actually classified. If it were, the government would be so damn deep into the media's business, no one would even know these supposedly classified documents even existed. I mean really, no one would know they existed if it weren't for the media covering this day in and day out, advertising it. The State Department wants to shut down wikileaks, but not the news networks that are advertising these supposed leaks? Give me a fucking break. These are obviously anomalies that "they" actually want people to know. So you have to question whether this information being "leaked" is actually true and not a complete fabrication as part of an intel psy-op on the American public.

    But anyway, I vote yes, it is a good thing.
  5. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Nrrr... The thread title is what I meant to put. >_<

    Some moderator change the poll question to "Is WikiLeaks doing good?"
  6. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    Yes it is right and essential for citizens around the world to see how their Governments try to hide their dirty little secrets.

    I read this in the Telegraph;
    US Republican presidential hopeful, Mike Huckabee wants the person responsible for the WikiLeaks cables to face capital punishment for treason.
  7. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Yeah Id be wary of any policatal figure using this situation as a policatal stepping stone.

    Oops read that from the fron perspective :biggrin: I read that they are considering classifying the site as a terrorist organisation. Which techniqually it is. Though I think this is great. It will finally help to break up that fucking word and specifically look at what is going on, and the people involved.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 1, 2010
  8. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    I don't know if it's necessarily 'right' or 'wrong', really - so I have no opinion.
    I can say that my dad (as a conspiracy theorist) already has told me about
    50% of these 'sensitive documents' that have been posted, so none of it is a surprise to me at all. It's old news, frankly.
    The government tends to do lots of sneaky/shitty things while people aren't watching directly.

    What's done is done- it's history. If having those documents posted for everyone to see helps the government and the forces that be to make smarter decisions, then it's great! Learn from your mistakes and improve!
    If it somehow leads people to think their country is evil and they should destroy everything... perhaps not so good.

    Whatevs. I guess we'll just have to wait and find out what happens.
  9. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    The ramifications of it's actions are certainly complex and ambiguous, but by and large I believe it represents an admirable initiative. Wikileaks is presumably out to serve the public good through it's actions, and many people forget that before these high-profile leaks, it did a lot to expose corruption and government abuse across the world (it still does, though that remains largely overshadowed by these high profile actions).

    Anyway, if it genuinely does aim to serve the public, then the masses themselves would decide whether or not they approve of it's methods or the consequences. If the people of the world feel threatened, then they'll make their voices heard and likely pressure Wikileaks to cease. Otherwise, it seems that most people favor such transparency - barring any major threat to national security - and Wikileaks will continue to do what does best for some time to come (assuming it's allowed to).
  10. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Well, IMHO the government could stop it if they really wanted to. Which leads me to wonder why they don't. Not that I want them to. I really don't care. The US government isn't this incompetent.

    Of course they could say that they worry what the world would think of them if they did but I don't believe that either.

    Basically, I think Wikileaks is a government controlled operation. Exactly what they're trying to accomplish, it's really hard for me to speculate when I don't follow the news all that closely.

    Edit - OTOH, it could be that our government has lied so much that we suspect they're lying even when they're not and that they really did somehow get outfoxed by this guy.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2010
  11. TWF

    TWF Well-Known Member

    Government controlled it might be; the US government certainly has some major balls and a lack of heart if it's willing to put its own troops in danger with the use of "its own" Wikileaks.

    I'm not a great believer of conspirasist, but the pursuit of Assange is pretty damn suspicious as well.
  12. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    The State Department is warning social network users not to express their views if they are favorable toward Wikileaks and anything related to Wikileaks. They warned that job candidates in the federal government may be denied job offers if they are associated in any way with any positive feedback on Wikileaks. Students at Columbia and Georgetown received the message from the schools that if they want to seek employment with the federal government, to not express any supporting views on Wikileaks.
  13. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    More and more people are coming around. This stuff is just too weird. Whatever they're up to, they're making one hell of a stink over it and attracting a lot of attention to themselves.
  14. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    If we can take just one piece of information from this whole affair, it is that the US Government cannot be trusted and all that matters to them is their own self serving agenda. The leaks have shown the contempt that they hold for its allies, and in particular, the special relationship between the US and the UK is heavily one sided. The US is no longer the superpower it once was and they are running scared. I am not a fan of the European Union, but I do feel that the UK should ally itself more with the EU than the US and most importantly, not fight in their illegal wars.
  15. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

    yes and no

    It is freedom of speech to release infomation that is of importance to the public, things that need to know, injustice, torture, and other cover ups, I believe though they have stepped to far with certain things.

    Of course where is the line, if you had infomation as powerful as that, would you just sit on it. The problem lies in the fact they are releasing it as raw data, no editing, which puts lives in danger, I fully support what they are doing to a point, but I think the release of certain things I have read is dangerous in the world we live in.
  16. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    They redact everything they publish to protect people, and no one has yet proven that anyone has come to danger as a result of publications. They're threatening to release unedited info only if governments keep harassing their organization.
  17. Crue-K

    Crue-K Well-Known Member

    I disagree, far too often Governments claim this or that could damage our 'national security' when in reality, they just want to hide information that is damaging to their political policies. The US and UK Governments claim that this information would endanger the lives of our troops in, please tell us how it would. When the previous batch of wikileaks about the Gulf war/Iraq, they claimed that same bullshit, it would compromise national security, it didn't. Most of the information was what everyone expected and common knowledge, very little referred to matters of national security.
  18. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    i believe transparency is needed by all governments. There could be certain situations where secrecy could be advantageous but to be honest i have seen far too many abuses of power to think it as a good thing.

    This government has no accountability. I have been fighting since october 2006 for people to be held to account over a raid based on falsified evidence, yet they claim that noone is accountable despite the hard evidence we have supplied.
    Transparency is the only way to destroy corruption.
    Accountability is a necessity to stop abuse of power.
    Free science is needed to further our country as a whole.
    And policies should be based on science, not emotive or political reasoning.
  19. houseofcards

    houseofcards Well-Known Member

    Yep, it's right. I want to know every damn thing the government does - good or bad. If people die in the process... then maybe the government shouldn't have done that shit to begin with.
  20. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    I just worry that nothing will become 'beyond the pale' anymore - and rather than pushing govts to clean up their acts, the populace will simply become immune and de-sensitised to it all. 'oh, another corrupt self-serving politician... Oh well, that's fine - they're all the same'. And then there will be no standards left to be held accountable to and no-one even pretending to try to do the right thing (for form's sake, as it were). Being greedy, unjust, corrupt, exploitative and abusive of power will sort of morph into acceptability.

    So that's my worry but on the whole, very pro Wiki-leaks as a concept in not allowing govts to be dishonest and promoting a bit more accountability - no more pretending to be something you're not and no more flim-flamming with weak or completely untrue or spurious justifications. Yay.
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