Israeli occupation of palestine

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by wanttodie, Mar 2, 2008.

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  1. wanttodie

    wanttodie Well-Known Member

    So i came across this old article right after the assassination of lebanese pm hariri 2 years back. nice basic overview and testimony of an israeli on the occupation.

    Shamai Leibowitz 24 March 2005
    The assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri has led to an explosion of "people power" in the streets of Beirut, in which hundreds of thousands of Lebanese citizens have called for an end to Syria's occupation of their land. These calls have been celebrated and echoed in other capitals, and nowhere more so than in Washington. However, there is another area in the Middle East where a struggle to end foreign occupation has brought the natives only death and destruction. For decades, Israel has crushed the 3.5 million Palestinians living under military domination, beating them into submission while taking away their civil rights and their land.

    As an Israeli Jew committed to peace for Israel and our neighbors, I was shocked and disgusted by the recent terror attack in Tel Aviv, which took the lives of innocent Jews. Such acts of terror have made headlines and been rightfully condemned by the international community. However, deadly Israeli attacks against Palestinian civilians have not received significant press attention in the West or led to appropriate, decisive international action. For decades the Israeli army, equipped with US arms and technology, has killed, maimed, beaten and tortured tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians. Clearly, America could have put an end to this. Instead, however, it chose to allow Israel to continue with the brutal oppression of the Palestinians, and never demanded from Israel to stop committing war crimes.

    From 1986 to 1991 I served in the Israeli army in the occupied Palestinian territories. During this period I was shocked and disgusted at what my comrades and I were repeatedly ordered to do to Palestinian civilians. To crush the uprising for independence and statehood, we were ordered to brutalize them. In one of our army bases in the West Bank, there was a mysterious room. Every day we watched Palestinians being led into it. After a couple of days our commanders would lead the Palestinians out, black and blue from bruises and their faces swollen. They resembled sacks of potatoes more than human beings.

    We later realized this room was a torture chamber. On some days, we could hear screams coming from the room. It was a sickening experience. However, we continued participating in the occupation because Israeli politicians persuaded us that we were in the midst of a "peace process." So effusive were they in their lectures on how Israel "only wants peace" that we were blinded from seeing the reality of how the state is brutally oppressing, subjugating and dehumanizing the Palestinian people.

    As many Israelis realize today, when Israeli governments talked about the peace process during the Oslo period, they were pulling the wool over the world's eyes. Israel continued colonizing the West Bank and Gaza with its Jewish-only settlements and, at the same time, entrenching a cruel military regime over Palestinians.

    The same is true today with Ariel Sharon's "disengagement" plan, which is being marketed by Israeli propaganda as a "painful concession" toward peace. Many of us who live in Israel and visit the occupied territories recognize the truth: Israel is continuously intensifying its military rule in the West Bank while stealing more Palestinian land and building more illegal Jewish-only settlements.

    After years of failed political efforts by the Israeli and international human rights community aimed at ending the occupation, it is clear that new approaches must be implemented. For years, American taxpayer money has funded the occupation--the torture chambers, the military apparatus, the bulldozers used in house demolitions, the building of settlements and now the construction of the West Bank wall, declared illegal by the International Court of Justice (ICJ). It is high time that American companies and institutions united in a multi-tiered campaign of strategic, selective sanctions against Israel until the occupation ends.

    The first step for American civic institutions is to engage in selective divestment--withdrawal of their investments from companies that are, directly or indirectly, funding the occupation. First and foremost, states, cities, universities, churches, unions, banks and pension funds should divest from Israel Bonds, which finance the occupation, and from any company that sells arms, ammunition or other military equipment to Israel.

    This should include companies like Caterpillar, which manufactures and sells the bulldozers that have flattened thousands of Palestinian homes, and General Dynamics, General Electric, Lockheed Martin, Northrop-Grumman, Raytheon and other corporations, because these companies play an active role in enabling Israeli forces to engage in practices that violate international humanitarian law.

    Second, the West should hold Israeli military personnel and political leaders personally accountable for human rights violations, including trial before international courts and bans on travel to other countries. This strategy has been implemented in other conflicts (Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo and South Africa, for example), proving its deterrent value and effectiveness.

    Prohibiting the sale of arms and military equipment to Israel is, in fact, called for by existing US law. According to the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961 (22 USC S2304), "No security assistance may be provided to any country the government of which engages in a consistent pattern of gross violations of internationally recognized human rights."

    The current hypocritical American Administration is not enforcing this law with regard to Israel. It is, therefore, up to American civil society to uphold the law and prevent the sale of any military equipment to Israel by pressuring the government, filing complaints against companies that violate this law and withdrawing all investments from such companies.

    The Presbyterian Church took a positive step in this direction when in July 2004 its General Assembly passed a resolution calling for selective divestment from companies that profit from the occupation. This past February the World Council of Churches, which brings together more than 340 churches worldwide, issued a similar resolution. While criticizing the severe human rights abuses inherent in the occupation and the construction of the illegal West Bank wall, these resolutions also affirm the right of the State of Israel to exist securely and peacefully, and they categorically reject the tragic cycle of indiscriminate violence perpetrated by both sides against innocent civilian populations.

    Sanctions are a powerful and nonviolent means to insure that the Israeli government abides by international law and ends its appalling human rights violations in the occupied territories. We have witnessed the power of worldwide economic pressure in the collapse of the South African apartheid regime. If American civic institutions follow the same strategy, we could see the end of the Israeli occupation in our lifetime. Americans should stand up for human rights and justice, follow their own law and take the most productive step toward peace and security in the Middle East.
  2. Daze&Confused

    Daze&Confused Antiquitie's Friend

    Atrocities have been commited on both sides, it's time to stop playing the blame game.
  3. wanttodie

    wanttodie Well-Known Member

    The point of this thread was that Israel in this case fits the definition of a terrorist organization just like the many Palestinian groups yet on television and elsewhere it is often the Palestinians that are accused. I do think the land rightfully belongs to Palestinians but the terrorist methods they have been using are wrong. In any case, believing that a land belongs to a certain group of people just because some 2000 year old book said so is pure bullshit.
  4. Daze&Confused

    Daze&Confused Antiquitie's Friend

    homo sapiens from c.70,000 BC
    Amorites from c.2500 BC
    Hattians, Arabs, Aramaeans mixing together from c.1500 BC
    Amorites began to arrive in the territory west of the Euphrates, in modern Syria, from around 2500 BC. The Akkadians called them Amurru, and groups of them drifted down into Sumer where they eventually replaced the Sumerians as rulers in Mesopotamia. Enough groups remained in Syria to have their name, Amurru, eventually come to be used for part of Syria and all of Phoenicia and Palestine instead of referring to them as a specific kingdom, language, or population.

    The caananites seem to have appeared as a separate people by 1200 BC, which is also the same time the philistines settled on the coast of what is now israel.
    there was a lot of upheaval inc/1200 BC and a dark age, so the details are lost.

    As you can see the land has had many civilisations.

    Land belongs to the people strong enough to keep it, that's how it's been for 10,0000 years.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  5. wanttodie

    wanttodie Well-Known Member

    By that logic I guess you can also justify occupation of Americ through ethnic cleansing of 100 million natives, colonization of Africa, pol pots genocides in cambodia, or even what saddam did in his own country, iran and kuwait. You can also justify what hitler did.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  6. Daze&Confused

    Daze&Confused Antiquitie's Friend

    Nice way to take the sentence outta context, did you read the previous lines.
    My point, and histories is that unfortunately the strong tend to take from the weak, right or wrong it's been that way since man first crawled outta his cave, and clubbed to death his neighbour for the bigger cave.
    I was also pointing out that the palestines claim is superceeded by several thousand years by other tribes.
    Nobody owns land, we mereley lease it till we die, or a bigger landlord comes along and evicts us.

    If it ever was the Holy land, too much blood has been spilt for it to be considered holy now.

    But feel free to continue the cycle of hate and blame.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2008
  7. wanttodie

    wanttodie Well-Known Member

    Oh ok Im sorry. What you are saying is true that its a dog eat dog world out there but I feel if a crime against humanity has gone unpunished, then its a crime in itself.
  8. LetItGo

    LetItGo Staff Alumni

    I see both sides. I dont think anyone with half a brain could see Israel as blameless, very few people ive ever spoken too see it that way. The stated aim of Hammas is to wipe out the Jewish state, is it not? or is that long as they maintain that line they can expect further Israeli aggression. If, by some miracle, a new group takes over the palestinian leadership, and can somehow bring the cowboys under control, then you might actually see some progress in the region.

    Until then its just more of the same until someone cracks the shits and drops the big one
  9. bleach

    bleach Well-Known Member

    There are no "good guys" in this world. "Nice" (AKA weak, cowardly, soft) groups get devoured by the cruel ones. Israel doesn't expressly state their desire to wipe out the palestinians, but they've been working towards the goal for a long time. Eventually they will do it, unless the the U.S. withdraws support from israel for some reason... in which Israel will be overrun and destroyed. The situation will end in genocide one way or another.
  10. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    Jews survived a holocost and caused thousands in Palestine . end of story
    see how beautiful religion is .. I've read the torat and it literally says kill youngs and enjoy their women , not mentioning that their hakhams allows killing kidz because it's always for god's "good cause"
    they're cold blooded killers . period

    if god came down I'd spit on his face , seriously
  11. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    Its got nothing to do with "god." This is people killing other people simply because they are different to each other and have different beliefs. Jewish people who werent even in Europe during WW2 simply used the holocoust as an excuse to gain support to invade palestine, and the western countries agreed and supported them. You say that it is merely the way of the world but surely we have come to a point in time were wars are now pointles. A thousand years ago when information and methods of communication were too primitive maybe but not now. Its just an illegal and immoral occupation of arabic lands which were taken from them because "god told us its ours"
  12. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    has nothing to do with "god" eh?
    well certainly it has to do with religion
  13. Sylar

    Sylar Well-Known Member

    deleted again :lol:
    use another image host haha
  14. I may have made a mistake when moving it to another album...



    (will ask mods to delete the former ones...)
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2008
  15. What’s long bothered me is that Israel as a country has one of the very lowest populations of ALL the world’s countries, utterly insignificant really. Yet the squeaky wheel has been getting the oil (no pun intended, and not that they have any) for literally decades. And I couldn’t give a rat’s ass that it’s the place of origin for 3 religions (not to mention that Judaism only constitutes 0.22% of all world religions – in fact, they’re far smaller than even the “other” category). They’re in the news constantly – bloody ad nauseam - and it sickens me! So call me anti-semetic cause I’m fed up with hearing about it!
  16. Hae-Gi

    Hae-Gi Banned Member

    Judaism makes me feel sick. Anyone who truly believes in it is a bad person. It's important to say that Islam makes me feel sick, too, though.

    Anyway, there is no defence for a stance that "Israel" belongs to the Jews, just because some stupid, religious text says so. I think that Israel has proven that it is not worthy of this country. Everything that was made into Israel should go back to the Palestinians, and the Jews should be free to move to the USA and Great Britain; the two countries that supported the creation of Israel. They especially should have the right to move to the USA, though, considering the US's politics in the area. However, I am well aware that this won't happen... the only likely scenario is genocide, in one way or another. In both ways, actually, though... probably, Israel will begin, but then the surrounding arab countries will counter.

    Did you know, by the way, that Jewish children in Israel are taught to spit on Palestinians that live there? Also, did you know that the Palestinians aren't the only ones that are treated as lesser beings, but Christians, as well? While I haven't heard that they are spat at, they are considered not to belong in Israel, and are supposed to get out of there, sooner or later (or convert to Judaism, perhaps).

    By the way, I know that not all Jews act in this manner, and, for that matter, do not believe in Judaism, but a large majority supports the government's politics, at the very least. To add is that those who simply think that Palestinians should be allowed to live in Israel, often are seen as traitors.
  17. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    a lot of assertions Hae-Gi, with absolutely nothing to back them up. Did you know most swedish people molest their childern? I mean, I don't know that for sure. But since the Swedes are a bunch of antisemitic fucks, who cares what i make up about them, right?

    You know why Isreal is so defensive? Because so many people think they shouldn't exist. Israel is a Jewish State and they will defend it. Is it "moral" or "just" or (even worse) "right?" Who knows, this world is not black and white, good or evil. Millions live in Israel and call it home should they be displaced so you don't have to hear about them in the news? Is that the "Right" choice?

    I'm not defending Israel's actions against Palestine. The media does not cover that story, mostly because the Palestinian pop. in the West is much smaller, and the argument has been framed in a Pro-Isreali manner.

    By the way its about to intensify again.
  18. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    <img src="">
  19. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member


    119 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 982 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000



    1,031 Israelis and at least 4,528 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000.



    6,845 Israelis and 31,815 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000.



    1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.



    0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 18,147 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.



    Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.


    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2008
  20. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    Thank you.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 5, 2008
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