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It's down to me.

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Scum, Mar 19, 2010.

  1. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    Scum's Disclaimer: I used to have a thread in the diary section, but I got it closed because someone thought it was about them and had a go at me about it. If you read this and for some reason you think its about you or that I'm having a go at you, then stop, and think why. If you carry on reading right to the end you will see what I truly feel about this situation and why. You will see who creates these situations and who it is that needs to resolve them; me. In case anyone feels a need to get defensive, to respond nastily and cruelly, ask yourself why when this is a non threatening 'let it all out' from me, to me. I'm not sure why I'm posting this publicly; probably because I'm never heard, and it would be nice to be heard, for once.

    I think I hope for too much from people.

    I tend to live by the rule 'do as you would be done by'. This is particularly in place on forums. For forums I try to treat people with respect, I try to validate people, I try to hear people, I try to reach out if I know something is going on, or someone needs help, I try to offer constructive help to allow the person to improve things for themself, I try not to make assumptions, I try to ask questions to understand more, I try to be there for someone no matter what state I'm in.

    Thing is, generally people don't reciprocate.

    I rarely feel heard or able to talk about stuff. Times I have posted, people have made my post about themselves. I feel like people only talk to me for support, and this is becoming more and more evident. For example, when I posted about having a bad day 'tomorrow' (it was the then tomorrow- not actually today's tomorrow) and being scared and needing help, people sort of vaguely replied to the post. The words they said the day before were hollow because they didn't follow through. People should not say things, especially on here, unless they can follow through.

    I know that generally I am a self fulfilling prophecy with this because when people ask me how I am, I don't bother replying, I mean, what's the point? People don't ask me how I am because they want to know how I am, they ask me how I am so that I ask them back and then they get the support they need from me. I have told people how I am only to be ignored too many times to count, so there is not much point actually putting myself in that position, because it hurts so much to be ignored, or brushed aside.

    If someone offers me support then I always, ALWAYS try to repay that favour as people hopefully know. I can't bear just taking, or just using people, yet I continually put myself in the firing line to be used by people.

    I know in my head, but not in my heart, that care means different things to different people at different times. When I write a reply, I actually don't feel care towards that person generally. I've been hurt too much that I don't feel care about anything or anyone, although I know that I must care in there somewhere. People are too quick to say they care when they don't, or when they want to care. They then don't follow through on their words, after all, they are just words. Words don't mean anything unless they are backed up by behaviour.

    I also know in my head, but not my heart, that there are different types of care. Things like 'I care about you unconditionally, whatever happen', 'I care about you when I am thinking of you but not the rest of the time', 'I care about you when I need support from you', 'I care about you while you visit this website', things like that. Mostly, on the web, its a case of 'out of sight, out of mind' (or 'out of site out of mind'), but I can't get that into my head. For those I genuinely care about, I wonder how they are, even if I can't see their name on the forum anywhere, or have no contact for whatever reason.

    I give and give and give and then feel abandoned, betrayed and rejected when I need support and people are not there. It happens time and time again. The common factor is me. I then get angry at other people for saying they care and not actually caring, but really, I am the one with the issue because, like I say, I am the common factor. Always happens to me.

    I generally then get bitter and angry and leave the site. Sometimes for good, sometimes for a shot period, othertimes for months, weeks on end. All that does though, is cement everything I think people think about me because, once again, when I've left, no one is interested in where I've gone, how I'm doing or anything. I don't actually expect people to be, but plenty of people say they would be interested/concerned, and again don't follow through. I wish people would not say things they don't mean. People should say they don't care, or that they are not bothered, or whatever, but people should not get your hopes up, only to deflate them when maybe you need them most.

    The problem does not just lie with forums though, its in real life too. And I think that is the main problem. If I felt heard in real life then forums would mean jack shit, but forums are generally the only place I have to be heard.

    The real life situations are a real trigger for the forum situations. Being treated as though you are the most worthless person in the world can be so hard to deal with. When its then back up in a place that you love, by people who previously said different, it hurts even more. It hurts and cuts so deep. The forums are not the problem- real life is. I don't know how to change real life. I don't know how to make myself heard, so I just block it out, and channel all my feelings towards the forums.

    Point is, I know this is my fault. I know that no one cares and I know that is down to me. I know all these things, but sometimes I forget that I know them. I forget people say things they don't mean, I forget I'm worthless, I forget many things. The only person to blame for that, is myself.
  2. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    Scum, I've thought about you when you left. And this post doesn't surprise me as I kinda think I knew how you were feeling all the time, especially when you were supporting loads of people here, usually that's a sign for me, that something is going on (wrong) for you underneath. It used to tear me apart to read your journal and see you posting so much to others here. I used to do this at a previous forum years ago when I was very unwell and dissociating. And it's about being heard, seen, and your need for that to be reciprocated is so understandable, but you won't find that on a MH forum. Your posts to others show you know how to listen, validate and do all the things you might crave for yourself when you're in distress, but from my experience, you're not going to get it here. This isn't your fault though, you're wanting something very basic that everyone wants.

    I understand what you mean here. Who is treating you as the worthless person in the world? Who in real life would you like to hear you?

    When people don't follow up, give, or check on you, that does not mean you are worthless. It might mean loads of things, like they've forgotten, their care is transient, they might not feel your pain. They might not understand what you're hoping for.
  3. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    Same here. Even though I barely knew you when you left the last few times, I saw your replies to people; and at the same time I saw how much you were hurting when you wrote in your journal. When you left, there were many times I'd wonder how you were doing, if you were okay.

    One part of your post really stood out to me;

    People are too quick to say they care when they don't, or when they want to care. They then don't follow through on their words, after all, they are just words. Words don't mean anything unless they are backed up by behaviour.

    You're right. Actions speak louder than words. Words don't have much meaning unless they're backed up by actions.

    I'm so sorry you've been hurt ... both on forums and in your personal life. :hug: You don't deserve that. It isn't your fault, and you aren't worthless.

    I do care, and I truly mean it. I'll do everything I can to prove that to you. You're worth that, and so much more.
  4. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    Thank you both for the replies.

    ggg- good to see you around, but sorry you're having such an awful time at the moment.

    I think your first paragraph is very wise and probably very accurate. It can be found on forums related to mental health though, I think it depends on the kind of people who are there, to be honest. However, I should not be searching for it, ad I also shouldn't be projecting it onto others.

    Alison- I think that I put too much on what people say. I learnt only to say what I mean, so if I say I'm leaving a site, then I will, or if I'm going to swallow tablets, then I will, or if I will always be there for someone, then I will. I see lots of people though, who say things and not meaning them, or having a hidden angenda behind them and not acknowledging that so if things are taken at face value, that's not the message the person is trying to get across. It would be good if people could stop and think 'do I really mean this' before typing as opposed to typing something that is led by an emotion, (such as someone wanting to leave the forum because they felt rejected-for example, saying they feel rejected because of X and feel like they need to leave, not that they are leaving and then wait to be talked around).

    I guess it comes down to communication and interpretations by people; both the person responding, and the person reading, and how things can get warped or changed because of wording, or intent, or impulse, or whatever.

    Us humans are curious things.
  5. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    I think you're right when you say you could find what you need on a MH forum. But it does depend on the forum, and even more on the people. But why do you feel like you shouldn't be searching? You want to be heard ... to be listened to and taken seriously. And it's okay for you to want those things.

    You're right, it's all about communication. I've learned over the years (and through many misunderstandings) to say what I mean, to stop and think about what I'm about to type before I type it, just to make sure I'm saying exactly what I want to say. It's different typing as opposed to actually talking to someone, because with talking we have a few things to go on, like what's being said and tone of voice. But in typing, all we have to go on are the words, and so they need to be carefully thought out.
  6. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    I think that I shouldn't be searching because if I search, I won't ever find. I am looking for something idealistic and not realistic. I can find bits and components without people or settings ot situations, but not the whole package. I think if some of the needs were met in real life then I wouldn't be searching on places with faceless names.

    You're right, text is hard to communicate with because you lose everything like body language, emotion, context, voice tone, voice volume, intonation, everything. I think until you've dealt with miscommunications and then worked out what went wrong you don't even realise how important communication and language is on a forum.
  7. WildCherry

    WildCherry Staff Member ADMIN

    You mentioned that you can find bits and pieces of what you're looking for, but not the whole package. What are you looking for? What would help you?
  8. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    I don't know what I'm looking for, but I do know its idealistic and not achievable.

    I think what I'm looking for on the internet is what I need in real life- but can't get.
  9. nagisa

    nagisa Staff Alumni

    I want to say "I'm here for you" or "If you need to talk, you can pm me" but I'm thinking maybe you'd consider me one of those people who wont follow through. So I'm just going to offer a :hug:.
  10. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    Thank you Misguided Ghost- Hugs are good :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2010
  11. IV2010

    IV2010 Well-Known Member

    I give and give and give and then feel abandoned, betrayed and rejected when I need support and people are not there. It happens time and time again. The common factor is me. I then get angry at other people for saying they care and not actually caring, but really, I am the one with the issue because, like I say, I am the common factor. Always happens to me.

    so sorry you feel like this Scum..
    I really do care...:arms:
  12. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member

    Would you send me a PM Scum so that I can write to you? I would like to tell you a few things on my heart regarding your situation but I have no way to reach you
  13. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    I have my PMs and Visitor Board disabled. Feel free to say it here though.
  14. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    Maybe you could write it down, and think it through. It might not seem as idealistic once you start doing things. It's baby steps, and there might be a time when you don't feel the need to invest yourself in people using MH forums but use them as secondary support.

    I know it's difficult, maybe you don't feel like you're worth caring about in real life- once you start believing in yourself, and fighting to be seen, heard and to be treated decently, things can change so much with getting care you need, help you need, as well as helping you feel more in control of your life.
  15. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    I really tried, I really fought. I did. Its not going to happen in real life. I know it can't happen here either. It can't happen anywhere. Which leaves me very lost and alone.
  16. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    What did you do? You don't have to answer, but I'm curious.
  17. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    I knew I was in crisis. I did everything I could to be heard, they didn't hear, I lost time and ODed. I'm the most worthless person in the world. They hear everyone else but not me.
  18. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    I feel for you so much, what you're going through is painful and exhausting. When was your OD?

    Getting into a crisis and approaching for help can be the biggest gamble, especially when they don't hear you or act fast. Did they offer any outpatient support or just send you home?

    Is there any part of you that can tell yourself something in the vein of- " I know myself, and I did my best to be heard and seen and they didn't. This does not make me worthless, but the responsibility for that OD, lies with them and not myself." It's okay if you can't do it, but I'm just putting this out there. How the crisis team responded to you doesn't reflect on you as a person. I've been there so many times myself, it's like somebody killing you slowly..
  19. Scum

    Scum Well-Known Member

    It was on Wednesday.

    On the morning I went to my doctor. He heard. He called the crisis team. They arranged a time to come and see me and turned up 20-50 mins late (they gave a half an hour period when they would arrive). They told me they didn't know what to do with me and because they said because they had previously offered me long term IP DBT there was nothing else they could think to do. I told them I was unsafe, that I was going to OD, everything. I told them everything. I could have done with going to hospital, or even just a table to knock me out but they upset me so much it triggered the dissociation. I don't remember much of that day, or the next, or even yesterday. Today is still blurry.

    I am not worth their help. I am meant to die. I didn't want to die until I came back and realised what they had done to me. I did everything I am supposed to, everything I could and they refused me help.

    It was their fault I ODed. I couldn't have done anymore.

    I'm just meant to be dead.
  20. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    That's disgusting, I'm sorry.

    Are they the same crisis team that offers a couple of weeks of intense outpatient monitoring? I've asked my CPN, and they are not supposed to turn you away on the spot without consulting the whole team and making a decision, especially when you're in such acute distress on that day and actually OD'd. You'd definitely get CRT support where I am.

    So what I hear is that you dissociated during the OD, afterwards, you can't remember much, but you ended back home and there's no back up?

    No wonder you feel the way you do. It sounds like a degrading experience and you were treated like someone invisible, like a hopeless case and you weren't treated like someone who was actually asking for help and did everything you could to access help. You did everything right. :hug:

    You are worth help. I see MH professionals as people who don't define me...they don't define your life and what your life means. Maybe that's why I don't get too effected by things now. But a lot of people there are basically half sleeping and need a major wake up call as to what they are doing to clients like yourself.

    Are you dissociating now?