Jesus Christ commands your life?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by ybt, Apr 27, 2007.

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  1. ybt

    ybt Guest

    I'm very tired, so I hope I make it to the end of this post...

    This isn't a rant on the bible. Actually, it isn't a rant about anything.

    Christians often say things along the lines of "I have found Jesus Christ.". Or, if discussing Jesus Christ to others, "You must allow Jesus Christ into your life", "Jesus Christ is the love, the life, the way", I'm sure you're many aware of that.

    My question is simply...

    What is Jesus Christ, as often portrayed? Christians don't give clear answers. No, I'm not bashing Christians. But is it a set of principles that you follow? This is the most logical answer from my perspective, a set of principles; to be the good samaritan, and do the THINGS that Jesus supposedly did. To be accountable for actions and such... forgive me, I am not very familiar with the Bible itself.

    But the way the followers phrase it... "Jesus Christ into the life". Does this make him a spiritual entity, do you actually feel him? Another thing is "He guides my actions" - do the principles guide it, or do you truly feel who he is? It's not a blurry line, but I find it exceedingly impossible to get a straight answer.
  2. RainbowChaser

    RainbowChaser Well-Known Member

    That's because it's so difficult to give an answer, but I'll give it a try.

    To me He's a spiritual entity, but maybe I'm wrong in a way. It could easily be Him asking the Holy Spirit (who most definately is a spiritual entity) to guide us in following His principles..? That would make the most sense to me at least.

    I hope this helps a little, even if it only bumps the thread up so that someone who knows better can answer :hug:

    PS: Once you work out who this is, you're probably gonna laugh :laugh:
  3. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    There are many different interpretations. I know in my old Christian days I sometimes felt the presence of God and considered Jesus to be the Lord of my life. Partly because I was too much of a wuss to make anything of myself at the time and partly out of fear.
    But a lot of Christians still act out of their own nature in a lot of ways rather than the supposed nature of Jesus.
  4. ybt

    ybt Guest

    any other opinions?
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    I think there's two ways of looking at religion, I could take a passage from the bible such as "Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel, Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel" and I could ask is this true? There may be evidence for it, or against it, I really don't care. And I also don't care about debates concerning Adam and Eve, or the nature of Hell. This is all about trying to work religion out with my mind, I can't do that.

    I just live my life and passages from the bible sometimes spring to mind, (which can be comforting or can be quite distressing), they just seem to fit into my experience of living, they seem to be more a part of who I am, what I believe. I see this more as religion from the heart. Our outlook on life is often shaped by people from our past, our parents, friends, loved ones, and though those people may no longer be part of our lives, a part of them stays with us, what they said, their outlook on life, lives on in our hearts so to speak. And I think you could say the words and outlook of people like Jesus may also have a place in out hearts too.

    I can't be too sure about this though as I'm not a Christian. I guess I just pick and choose bits of Christianity and reject other bits. For example if Jesus says you should forgive others I'm not automatically going to accept or reject that, I'm going to question how that fits in with my understanding of life, and if he says that he's the Son of God I'm going to do the same. I can't make myself believe things in my mind, I can only listen to other people's beliefs, file them away in my memory, and one day discover whether I accept them or experience them with my heart.

    I guess in the same way if somebody tells me that they love me, I can accept that with my mind, question it and debate it, but unless I feel it with my heart and experience and accept that love then it's kind of meaningless to me.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 29, 2007
  6. Blackness

    Blackness Guest

    I don't believe. Look around the world at wars, starvation, poverty, even this website, if he is sooo mighty why doesn't he help us????????????
  7. Savior

    Savior Active Member

    To me, to say "let Jesus in your life" sounds pretty much like "cheer up". I mean, you can't force someone to find his answers in such a personal matter like the religion: some people might just don't believe, while for others it might just be too difficult.

    But I do think that there could be different interpretations of the sentence. Since Christianism is supposed to be a religion based on 'giving' oneself to others like Jesus did, it doesnt necessairly mean that you must go to church every sunday and pray the Cross, the holy Mother etc; but more importantly, it might be a trigger to find your own dimension and to ease your pain by doing good for others, basically.
  8. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Actually Savior, thats a really good point I know why people say "let Jesus into your life" but I do question their timing sometimes and the assumption that the person in question can actually do it.
    I am a christian, I have always been a christian..even when my faith falters it never dies; but I know an atheist who would give anything to believe, we've spent countless hours discussing faith, not just christianity all faiths and the bottom line is no matter how much he wants to believe the faith does not come.
    I can only pray he finds what he's looking for.
  9. lebigmac

    lebigmac Well-Known Member

    Fcuk the fcuktard Holy Spirit. That's my answer. :smile:
  10. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Lebigmac...that post was unproductive and insulting to those who believe in Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit. If you don't believe, then why the violent feelings toward an "imaginary" entity?

    YBT...Jesus (according to my beliefs, the Bible, etc.) is human, spiritual and divine. He is God and he is human and He is spirit. I know it's confusing...took me years to get it and I still don't really :). Why should I? I'm only human.

    But, here's the short and dirty of it from what I believe.

    The reason God does not manifest Himself all the time to everyone (why there is suffering, lack of faith, etc.) is because of free will. Let me explain as quickly as I can.

    I believe that:

    In the beginning, God created EVERYTHING from nothing. At first, this everything only involved spiritual beings...a.k.a. "angels"...immortal beings who are not God, but who KNOW God in His entirety, know their creator and His power. Most angels were happy to love Him, knowing that they owed their existence to Him, but some thought, "Hey, why should HE be God, and I'm just an angel who is supposed to worship Him?"

    God realized that because these angels KNEW about His ultimate power, they HAD to worship Him...(if YOU knew that someone had ultimate power and was responsible for your creation, you might say "Hey, this sucks. I obviously HAVE to be subservient to this guy because I have no choice.)

    At this point, God realized that because the angels (who were basically the first companions to God) KNEW for a FACT that God was the be all and end all to their existence (since they interacted with Him constantly), they were FORCED to respect Him. I mean, they had no real choice because they had too much knowledge. No free will.

    So God tried something else. God wanted to be loved on His own terms, without "forcing" anyone to believe in Him or worship Him. It would be like if you payed your friends to hang out with you. They might do it, but they would resent you, and they wouldn't really like "you for you". They would like you because you had the cash, the power.

    So God created people. And He basically said, "You have a choice. I am not going to give you eternal life and show myself to you every day because I want to be loved for who I am, not for what I can do for you and not because I am all-powerful." God was lonely because He was only loved by the angels because he was "God".

    So by not "paying" for our love, God could be sure that if we "CHOOSE" to love Him, it is a real and conscious choice. It was a gift.

    Now, because of this, some of the angels became jealous. They HAD to obey God, HAD to "love" Him, because he was God and they knew that for a fact...but as humans, we can choose to accept or reject Him. We can choose to believe in Him or not to believe in Him. Therefore, God could be accepted and loved because of who He IS.

    God gave us life, the world, existence, and we don't have to do anything...we don't even have to BELIEVE in Him at all! This is FREE WILL.

    When Satan (who was originally one of the most loved angels) saw this, and saw our blissful ignorance, he became very jealous. He thought, "Why are they allowed to have life and beauty and hope without being beholden to God? Why did God allow these humans to live in a beautiful world without having to serve Him in any way?"

    So Satan began to war against us, the human race.

    Now, the story of Adam and Eve may be true, or it may just be an allegory to explain the situation in a simpler way.

    So Satan decided to turn us against God. Satan never had a choice, because he always knew that God was the all-powerful creator whom he HAD to respect...if he did not, well, he was going against reality, against everything he knew to be true. On top of that, God gave humans dominion over the entire Earth. So Satan sought revenge against God by fucking with us. By making us turn against God in order to show Him that we (his most favored creation in Satan's opinion) would go against Him.

    So he tempted Adam and Eve, telling them that God was all about power and control when all God really wanted was to be loved for who He was. When we sinned, Satan was like, "See? Those humans you gave so much power and favor to will really just screw you over."

    But what really happened was that at that point, Satan was setting himself against God...he then became the adversary (if you look it up, the name Satan means "accuser", because he is the accuser of a lawyer trying to convict us humans).

    Now, in the Bible, Satan is allowed to come and go between Heaven and Earth throughout the ENTIRE Old Testament. He is not yet banished to Hell. Throughout the Old Testament (pre-Jesus) Satan is always going to God and accusing God's most faithful followers of not following God's will...he is still an angel, accepted in Heaven, but still trying to mess with us because he is jealous of God's special treatment toward humans After all, we have free will, something Satan does not have. This is why Satan HATES humanity. He feels gipped. He feels that as "king of the angels" he should be God's favorite.

    So God came to Earth in the form of Jesus, in order to show us His love and compassion without forcing us to believe. We were shown signs and miracles.

    See, God is perfect. Being in His presence as an imperfect human with free will (we can have indescriminate sex, curse, steal, etc...and still convince ourselves that there is no God, which makes us feel justified in doing whatever we want) is impossible. We are not and can never BE worthy of being in the presence of God. It's like being a hooker at a child's birthday's just not right. So before Jesus, God gave us all these ways of purifying ourselves...animal sacrifice, sexual abstinence, cleasning rituals, etc.

    When the Jews fled Egypt, God was present with them the entire time! He was present in the form of a pillar of fire that they could see and worship. He fed them with Manna and led them through the desert, but they resented Him for it, the same way some of the angels resented Him! There were rules that they had to follow (too many rules for ANYONE to follow!) and so they became rebellious.

    So, because He loved us so much and wanted to bring us closer to Him, he came to Earth in the form of a human: Jesus. Jesus said that we didn't have to follow all of the old rules. We just had to love God above ALL else, and love our fellow man as ourselves. In this way, we can fully experience God without being FORCED to do anything. We can believe in Him or reject Him. We feel Him in our hearts as a spirit (that is the Holy Spirit), He came to Earth as a person (Jesus), and He is eternal as God (God), so Jesus is all of these things.

    I know this was a convoluted way of explaining it, but I would be happy to talk to you about all of this or anything wlse...I also have links to articles and other things that may help :) :hug:
  11. lebigmac

    lebigmac Well-Known Member

    Sorry, peanut. It was nothing personal. I guess I still harbour some ill will towards the Catholic Church (not necessarily the people who are a part of it).
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2007
  12. sadsong

    sadsong Staff Alumni

    Great post peanut :)

    Lebigmac, please try and stay respectful to other peoples beliefs and opinions. You are more than entitled to have your say of a differing opinion, but please stay respectful. it doesn't help anyone to be throwing insults around. :)
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