Jesus lives on Suicide Forum

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by TG123, Apr 22, 2007.

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  1. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    Often many people when they think of Jesus Christ they see Him as a king who would exist in human terms.

    One who is friends of only the rich, one who is friends of those with lives free from poverty or worry or pain or despair.

    Some people unfortunately push forward this image, portraying a jesus who only seems to be found in large and beautiful glass churches, a jesus who blesses people with millions of dollars, a jesus who teaches that 'God helps those who help themselves', a jesus who shows love only to the healthy, the happy and the rich. A jesus who is not concerned with injustice. A jesus who has no time for those who are wracked with guilt or struggling with depression or sickness or loss, except to tell them to donate money to a certain televangelists radio or television station or order some 'holy spring water' or a 'prayer shawl'. A jesus who claims that loads of money and beautiful mansions and perfect health are God's plan for everyone, and that those who have these things, unlike others, are blessed by God. A jesus who teaches concern after self, enrichment of self, and an escape from any possible pain.

    A false jesus. The real Son of God and Lord and Saviour lived among the poor. He ate with people who were sexually exploited and who were struggling with addictions and sins. He was followed by shepherds, fishermen. Tax collectors, prostitutes, and thieves. He traveled to the homes of dying and dead people and raised them from the dead. He was one of the homeless, and did not have a place to put His head. He preached and showed the Truth to the rich and poor alike.

    He did not pose on a battleship, but taught love for enemies and showed it, even when they were beating and persecuting and murdering Him. As His wounds from the whips and nails driven through His hands and feet were pouring with blood, He prayed for His tormentors 'Father, forgive them for they know not what they do'.

    He died for all of us. His arms are open to all who want to put their faith in Him. The depressed. The suicidal. The ashamed. The sick. The dying. Those who have been cast away by society, friends, family members. Those who are struggling with addictions. Those who have been told they are worthless, that they are shit, that they'll never amount to anything, that they should have never been born, that they are a stain, that they are hopeless, losers, retards, freaks, beyond any help or hope. Even those of us who have internalized these messages.

    He is a King who loves everyone, but His primary concern was always with the downtrodden and suffering. He blessed the poor, the hungry, the persecuted, the grieving. He LIVED among them and still does! What we do to the suffering and poor we do to HIM!!! He sees your pain and your suffering and your tears and your pain. HE IS WITH YOU. You can come to Him.

    He lived and continues to live among people like many of us here, and He died for us all. He will walk with you through your pains and your sufferings and your tears. By putting your faith in Him you will not escape problems in this life, but He will help you come through them and His light will shine from you to the world. And when your life, He will give you an eternal life truly free from pain, suffering or tears.

    Putting my faith in Him was the best thing that happenned to me. He has not 'erased' my problems, but has helped and is helping me get through them, and even in the hardest moments of my life I know God is with me. He offered us the free (for us!) gift of salvation at the cross, we can accept it and live for Him.

    Take care and peace.

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2007
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    TG123, I ask this not because I'm trying to be awkward, because your posts are always a joy to read and inspire me. But my question is this...

    I often ask myself "Why should I believe in God?"
    And I may, look at the Universe, creation, nature etc. and go "Wow, yes I can see that there may be a God behind all this"

    But then I ask, "Why should I believe in Jesus?"
    And it's at that point I struggle.
    (For example if man has had religion for 20,000 years or so, why wait all 18,000 years before putting in an appearance?)

    I don't expect you to have answers, I think it's unfair to expect people to have all the answers, I also know that we experience things, have revelations etc. that we find difficult to convey to other people, so if you have anything to say on the subject that would be great, and if you don't that's fine too.

    Best wishes, as always,

    Ziggy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2007
  3. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    Hi Ziggy,

    As always, it was a pleasure hearing from you, my friend. Your question is not at all awkward and I hope my answer will help a bit and that God will guide my words.

    Jesus is the Son of God, He is the Word of God and one way that God revealed Himself to us. For the first many years, God sent us prophets like Moses and Elijah, Adam and Eve knew Him and had a personal relationship with Him, even though they chose to disobey Him.
    For these thousands of years, God has sent many people and others listened to them for a while, but then for the most part turned away. These prophets themselves were only human and while they did reveal God's will, they too were flawed and could not reveal the whole message.
    God came down in the form of His Son, Jesus Christ, to show us the ultimate example. Jesus was sinless, was not a hypocrite, and could reveal the Message in its completely true and unblemished form- for it is a perfect message from God and who but God could reveal it? He was God when He lived on earth, yet also man. He felt loneliness, rejection, weariness and pain. He lived among us and suffered for us and died for us.

    Why believe in Jesus? He is the ultimate form of God's love. In what greater way could God show His love for us rather than coming down to live among us and suffer for us? True love involves not only happiness, but also sacrifice. Christ did it for us. No one else was arrested and beaten and crucified for you. No other philosophy or religion has this to offer you, that God Himself did all this for you. This is the highest possible expression of love, a love of commitment and sacrifice.

    I don't know if this made much sense or helped any, I'll try to write some more later and if you want to reply I look forward to hearing back from you.

    Take care and it was great talking to you, Ziggy!

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
     
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Antiquitie's Friend

    Thanks for responding. Good reply.

    I always like to think about things before I speak my mind, and I've got lots to think about. May be days, weeks, months, before I come up with a response, but I certainly will think about it. Catch you later then.
     
  5. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Hi Ziggy! Try reading the essay "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis. Before he wrote it, he was an atheist and was doing research so he could contradict Christians and people who believed in God in general. After all his research, he discovered this: not only is there a God, but Jesus Christ was the son of God. He thought a lot about it and can explain it much more eloquently than I, but one of his arguments is this:

    Jesus was either a liar, a crazy person, or the son of God. If you look at His life, you can see that if he was lying just to gain respect or popularity, he most certainly would not have been willing to die for that sake, because he would have been lying for material and worldly gain, something Jesus himself was opposed to. He lived his life in poverty and he CHOSE to die. Herod did NOT want to put him to death and gave Jesus every opportunity to back out. So chances are, he, at least, did not believe himself to be lying. He thought he was telling the absolute truth by saying he was the son of God. Also, Jesus' life and everything he did and said goes against the idea that he may have been lying. So if he was not lying, he was nuts. So let's go to the next idea...he was a lunatic. Nothing he ever did or said indicates that he was crazy. He was intelligent and consistent in his actions and deeds. He was lucid, and inspired people with logic and truth. He was not erratic or flighty. He never contradicted himself and he acted in a way that was correlative with his preaching. Even at the time, people did not think he was crazy. He was truthful (we have already established that he was probably not a liar) and compassionate. So he was not crazy. So what do we have left? He was the son of God.

    Now that is a very watered-down version of what Mr. Lewis describes in his essay, so I strongly recommend you reading it...so inspiring.

    The only other question is "Why was is necessary for God to send His son down to Earth to save us?" It's kind of a long story and it involves a good amount of biblical history, but if you want to hear it, feel free to PM me or just ask me to post it, otherwise, read the book I was talking about because it talks about that too...the reason God had to sacrifice himself/his son to save the world...once you hear the reasons, it's really not that difficult to grasp. Anyway, I hope you read this, and I hope it helps :)
     
  6. theleastofthese

    theleastofthese SF Friend Staff Alumni

    THis is an interesting thread. I shall be reading it closely as it progresses.:smile:

    one of "the least of these"
     
  7. TLA

    TLA Antiquitie's Friend

    ok, hahaha

    How do you know He (God) is there??

    I can question because a psychologist said "many people question God after a serious loss or change. It is normal and not bad"
    I am Christian, but am confused as to trustin Him with the future or deciding time to go.
     
  8. Please pray that Cynthia gets back into my life, and that she does so soon. I miss her alot. Thanks, TG123.
     
  9. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Oh TLA that happens so many times in life and questioning is a good thing, apparently it strengthens our faith:dry:
    When I feel like that I sit back and imagine it...no God. The God I have believed in all my life..The God I have laughed with in happy times and railed at in bad.
    When I try to imagine he's not there or have a crisis of faith, some part of me, some tiny spark refuses it absolutely.
    I guess it really is just that 'FAITH'. You either have it or you dont and all the arguing, debate, intellectualising and outright ridicule wont take it away.:unsure:
     
  10. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    PS: Kurt, I'll say a novena for you that you find the love you so badly want and deserve:smile: :hug:
     
  11. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    What happens to the majority of humanity that, for whatever reason, turns down this "offer"?
     
  12. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Are you sure about this? I think Lewis had been a Christian for quite some time when he wrote that particular work.


    Errm, no. Jesus could have existed as an historical person and been none of the above. What you're saying presupposes that the Gospel accounts are an accurate recitation of Jesus' life, beliefs and behavior. (And I personally see no way that this could be the case. Start with the genealogies in Mark and Matthew if you doubt me. )


    We know nothing of the sort. Aside from some bits in Luke of Jesus as an infant, we don't have a clue how he spent the first thirty years of his life. And this is on the shaky basis that the Gospels are an accurate history at all.

    Herod put Jesus to death? :blink: Don't you mean Pilate?
     
  13. reborn1961

    reborn1961 Guest

    Interesting post. I too have faith in Christ and know he does not turn me away because of my mental state and suicide attempts. For those of us that choose to believe, he is often the only friend we have in the dark. Take care.
     
  14. Edicius si Evol

    Edicius si Evol Well-Known Member

    Thx for recognising me.

    brb
     
  15. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Hi Gmork. Yes, sorry for the confusion...Pilate did actually put Jesus to death; it was Herod who refused to do so and sent him to Pilate.

    I am not one of those people who believes that the Bible is the infallible word of God. (O.k., I didn't get struck by lightning, so I'll continue). I DO believe that it is the inspired word of God, written by fallible men, so there are going to be inconsistencies from time to time.

    That said, we have more information on the life of Jesus than we do on anyone of that time. We accept things as fact that have FAR less textual evidence than the life and death of Jesus.

    The four gospels are just the texts about Jesus that made it into the Bible because the authorship could be traced directly to first-generation Christians.

    All the major details in all 4 gospels coincide with each other. Jesus claims repeatedly that he was the son of God. If He was not, then He was a liar or insane. That's all there is to it.

    If the gospels aren't even somewhat accurate, then I don't know how we can trust any of the histories of that time period at all.
     
  16. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    True. He may have thought Pilate was just going have him whipped and then turned loose.

    Fair enough.

    This is not true. The mention in Josephus is of dubious value, it most certainly has been tampered with. The other references usually brought up aren't from contemporary sources. And there's considerable doubt whether or not a document like the Talmud even mentions Jesus.

    Most scholars would disagree with this, and I personally believe that Mark predated both Matthew and Luke.

    At what point does a minor detail become a major one? I'm thinking in particular of Mt 27, where the saints who had "fallen asleep" were raised.

    And yet this detail gets no mention in any other Gospel? The dead rising and then romping around Jerusalem either didn't happen or Mark, Luke and John deemed it too unimportant to mention? Neither explanation bodes well for the accuracy of Gospel accounts.

    Not really, since the only accounts we have are from his followers.

    Which contemporary to the Gospel account of history are you thinking of, by way of comparison? Tacitcus?
     
  17. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Despite possibly not being mentioned in Josephus, Jesus is mentioned in many other texts that date to that era. Justin wrote about him approximately 100 years after his death, and it is obvious that there were different schools of thought on whether or not he was the messiah, so we know that he existed and was quite controversial. As far as not knowing about his childhood, I suppose most of the gospel writers did not think it important as he had not yet revealed himself. Also, they did not know him before he was 30. Luke is the only one who writes about his infancy (aside from apocryphal texts), and most believe it is because he knew Mary and interviewed her. Also, could Josephus have had his own agenda in omitting Jesus from his histories? Maybe.

    Yes, Mark was probably written first with Matthew and Luke following suit. And John was written later towards the end of the author's life. John seems most concerned in proving Jesus' divinity in his gospel and he was one of the original 12.

    RE: Matthew 27...I'm gonna have to get back to you on that one. It is a strange passage...I'm surprised I never noticed it before, although your description of all the dead saints wandering around Jerusalem did give me quite the chuckle. Zombie saints are nothing to mess around with! :)

    As for not trusting any histories from that time period, I was mainly speaking in very general terms. They always say history is written by the winners, so any historical account, especially from so long ago must be taken with a grain of salt. I guess there is no PROOF per se, of the divinity of Jesus, but it is very interesting that so many men believed it. If it was a power trip, or a means of control (like modern-day cults) that would be one thing...but SO MANY people believed it enough to die for it (and not in the Jim Jones Kool-Aid way, we're talking torture here) that it is definitely something to think about. It amazes me how many Christians there are to this day.

    In the end, I suppose it is a matter of faith, but I definitely think there is some very compelling evidence out there to support Christianity.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2007
  18. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    Also just for the record, I believe we can accept Christ after death. I'm not sure I believe in an eternal Hell. Even Pope John Paul 2 made certain references to universal salvation through the strength and faith of the Church. The jury's still out on that for me...maybe it's because that's what I want to believe...but there it is.
     
  19. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    Hi, Kurt. I'm glad to hear from you, although sorry to hear about your friend. I will pray for you and Cyntia, and I pray that she recognizes the good and caring and loving and faithful person who you are.

    As you know, I had a good friend who decided to leave my life as well. It hurt so much and drove me to depression and thinking about and trying suicide. She is not back in my life and probably never will be; she does not want to even remain friends anymore. I have learned from my hard loss (and it was really hard) though that God is always there, and He is a friend who will never leave us or turn His back on us. I know that you know this too.

    I hope that you and her go back to having the same relationship you had, but if that doesn't happen remember that there are many people who love you and care about you, and that Christ is always there for you.

    Take care and God bless you, brother.

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
     
  20. TG123

    TG123 Well-Known Member

    Hi TLA,

    You can certainly question and I think we all have that right. How do we know God is there?

    I knew it after I thought of killing myself and knew Someone was holding me back. When I was in tears and grieving for a friend who killed himself and for another friend who chose to leave me and not be friends anymore, I asked Him to take the pain and tears away and I praised Him and they were gone. When I look at people like Romero and Stephen and Martin Luther King, people who steadfastly believed in Him and helped others in His name and gave their lives for remaining true to Him.

    God created you and everyone around you and the world. He died on the cross, in the form of Jesus Christ, out of His great love for you.

    Believe me, don't lose your trust in Him. Remember Job, who went through literally hell but remained true. God did not leave him. Jesus will reward the grieving, the suffering, the sick and the oppressed who stayed true to Him.

    He is with you and will not leave you. If you want to talk personally, my email is holyspiritrocks@hotmail.com . Take care and God bless you.

    Cristo Vive!
    - Tomasz
     
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