Justin Bieber on abortion?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by feathers, Feb 17, 2011.

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  1. feathers

    feathers Well-Known Member

    "I really don't believe in abortion," Bieber says. "It's like killing a baby?" How about in cases of rape? "Um. Well, I think that's really sad, but everything happens for a reason. I guess I haven't been in that position, so I wouldn't be able to judge that."

    There seems to be outcry about this interview that was in the Rolling Stone. Frankly, I don't see what the whole fuss is about. I actually agree with the Bieber kid on this. I mean, just because it was rape, doesn't make it any less "like killing a baby". If you're against abortion at all, the fact it was rape changes nothing - the fact it's still an innocent baby and all that.

    I'm against abortion personally, probably because of my recent miscarriage and period of desperation for a baby. But yeah, there's always adoption or actually keeping the baby, after all it is the mother's baby too...

    Where does everyone on here stand with abortion and indeed abortion after rape?

    K x
     
  2. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    I'm in Canada. We have no legally binding restrictions at a federal level on abortions and the provinces have some regulations for it but it's altogether true that abortions are legal here.

    I'm for this. If it were not the case that all abortions were legal it would be the case that women that want abortions would find a back-alley clinic and get unsterilized equipment causing infections or injury that can all too often cause death of the mother.

    The fetus is not a baby. The embryo is even less a baby. It's a shell that would, given time, become a conscious being. If it's criminal to kill something that *could* have been a real baby then every time a man masturbates is a mass-murder and every woman that ovulates a perfectly good egg away without getting pregnant has murdered a child too.

    The only legally and rationally tenable position (unless you like having everyone being serial killers) is that the fetus or embryo is not a child and it is not murder to destroy it.
     
  3. feathers

    feathers Well-Known Member

    "If it's criminal to kill something that *could* have been a real baby then every time a man masturbates is a mass-murder and every woman that ovulates a perfectly good egg away without getting pregnant has murdered a child too."

    That isn't strictly true. If you leave a foetus, and do nothing, it eventually turns into a baby. If you leave an egg inside of you and do nothing, it doesn't turn into a baby. You have to physically do something to actively get rid of and destroy a foetus. To menstruate you don't really have to do anything.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2011
  4. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    It's still the killing of potential life.

    Think of it like this: I have skin cells here on my hand. While I was cooking I did, due to some negligence, get some very hot oil on a patch of these skin cells and they all died due to the excessive conditions.

    Did I just commit a murder? (Murder due to negligence is prosecutable) No, of course not. I had an accident and a small part of me got injured. Part of ME. That's the key thing - if those skin cells were to have been removed carefully and left to its own devices it would have died because it needs my body to provide it with nutrients and it is therefore considered part of MY body. It's considered permissible for me to intentionally kill my skin cells too; I can get tattoos or piercings through my skin and these acts will kill cells but I can do it!

    So a woman can potentially have a series of cells too; these cells cannot live without the woman's body and do not per se have any form of consciousness. Not only do these cells need her, they will in fact be detrimental to her in order to try and grow; cause sickness, swelling, discomfort, etc. I can get a tattoo and kiss a score of skin cells whenever I please; why can't she go and get the leech removed from her uterus?
     
  5. feathers

    feathers Well-Known Member

    17/02/2011 - the day babies became leeches.
     
  6. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Humanity is defined by consciousness, which a fetus does not have. I cannot equate abortion with murder, as a result.

    As for rape, think about the child - is he going to find a loving home when he is born, or does he stand a good chance of entering foster care? I'm strongly in favour of the right to abort in any situation whatsoever - but in rape even moreso. In situations where protection wasn't used or it failed, it's ultimately her actions that caused the baby, so she can prevent that. In the case of rape, it wasn't her at all. To deny her the right to abort in that case would be to deny her any rights at all over her own body.

    It's true that many women who get abortions regret it, but it's also true that many women who have unwanted children regret it, and their children regret it. An aborted fetus does not suffer, while a child in a hostile world does.

    Protecting life for life's sake while ignoring human suffering is cruelty, plain and simple.
     
  7. nagisa

    nagisa Chat & Forum Buddy Staff Alumni

    Well said. I completely agree.
     
  8. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    What? Unfertilized and fertilized eggs are not comparable; they're completely different. Taking premeditated and intentional action to terminate a fertilized egg and actively growing human being, is killing it. That's no accident nor is it naturally occurring, unlike the ejaculation of your already inactive sperm cells, or the release of an already unfertilized egg in a bored uterus during menstruation.
     
  9. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I ain't a fan of it.
     
  10. bhawk

    bhawk Well-Known Member

    why do people find it unacceptable to have an abortion yet are willing for animals to be slaughtered?

    Why is a human life -undeveloped at that- worth more than an animals life? life is life, death is death, death aint nice regardless
    people have some skewed perspectives

    I am pro abortion despite having my ex abort my child behind my back.
    What would a child think if he/she found out their father was a rapist?
    What about the mother not only having to suffer the trauma at the time but also having a constant reminder for the rest of her life?

    A womans body is her own, she can choose what she wants to do with it, and as lovecraft said, to remove her right to abortion is to strip her of her fundamental right to choose what happens to her body.
     
  11. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    Really? I see people giving more love to animals than people.
     
  12. absolution

    absolution Forum Buddy

    Abortion.. Hmm.. Well I mean its a woman's choice what to do with her body. I understand the controversy over the fetus not being part of her body though.

    I think if the woman is in risk of losing her life due to the pregnancy going to term then it's okay to have an abortion. Or, like it was said, if she was raped I think it's okay. But also I sort of agree with the "it's her body" statement.
     
  13. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    Right.
     
  14. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Nope it isnt.
    Just because women are the ones able to give birth does not give them the right to terminate something that is only half theirs. After conception she is but a vessel that allows the new being to evolve. The male part is just as significant in the creation of life and therefore should have equal say.

    "fundamental right to choose what happens to her body." but not to the life of another being that is only 50% of her responsability.
     
  15. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    In my life I know have found 0 vegetarians/vegans that care that much if I eat meat or animal product and I've also found maybe 2 or 3 people that don't disagree with war on principle.
     
  16. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    The man does not OWN half of the child. His investment is very, very little. Her investment will last a lifetime - she'll never forget a pregnancy. The father can find someone to have babies with who wants to have babies if he wishes, he can't force it on someone else. Guess what? No male has ever needed counseling over an abortion!
     
  17. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    If a woman is raped, that child will forever represent that time when she attacked and forced to carry some sick bastards baby.
    It has come up multiple times that women will neglect or even hate the children who were born of rape.

    I am for abortion. I am also against teen pregnancy, we having a growing population problem and yet teens who could simply wear condoms and use birth control are popping out babies and now they even have their own t.v. shows, it's ridiculous.
    Anyone who wants to have their own baby and never considers adoption, I believe, is selfish, there are thousands of children who need love and a good home, why not give them one before we start making more babies?
     
  18. jota1

    jota1 Well-Known Member

    Um sorry but a man is responsible in 50% of the new human-being. The fact that women go through the process of feeding the embryo is just a matter of fact. Its nature and you cant do anything about it.

    Anyway you cant have it both ways, women want men to accept half the responsibility of house/work/education but they cant have a say in the new life they created. Sorry does not make sense
     
  19. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    My views on abortion are currently in flux. In the past, I've alternated between both sides of the debate; presently, in the face of so many ethical and philosophical discussions on the matter, I've found myself uncertain.
     
  20. Prof.Bruttenholm

    Prof.Bruttenholm Well-Known Member

    I pose a question, what if giving birth to the possible baby or in fact, delivering it in anyway would in some way harm the mother or kill her?
    What if the mother is far too young, like the 9 year old in India who was raped and impregnated?
    Should we make a 9 year old raise a baby? Or do we just say 'well, put it up for adoption or make her parents raise it?"
     
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