Keep Fighting?

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by fromthatshow, Jun 25, 2008.

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  1. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I think some of the phrases we throw out here need to be re-evaluated. With good intentions behind them, when you really think about it, some of them are empty/don't really help aside from the fact that both people recognize the good intentions.

    Phrases I think tcould use re-evaluating...

    Keep fighting

    This message for "hope; encouragement" sounds more depressing than anything. Why should life be a fight? Many of us feel like we've been "fighting" for a long time, and are sick of it. I think it would be more hopeful to tell people to stop fighting. Stop fighting whatever it is that is keeping you in depression. Change, the past, the future, whatever.

    Hold on

    Let go. I realize people are saying hold on to life, but the phrase itself just isn't helpful I don't think. We need to let go of whatever is making us feel suicidal, keeping us in this depressesed state. Holding on takes a great deal of effort. Letting go is effortless.

    Keep trying

    Keep trying to what? To survive? Sounds cold. Sounds empty. Give up sounds more freeing to me.. "Losing all hope was freedom" - Chuck Palahniuk (in fight club hehe). Sometimes we need to hit bottom (there I go with fight club phrases again, god i love that movie) in order to make changes. Keep trying implies no change. Keep doing what you're doing, eventually things will get better. If you keep doing what you're doing, maybe they will get worse. Sometimes we have to change. Trying is going against the flow. I have found much more peace in "allowing" as opposed to "trying." Accepting the things that happen in my life as oppossed to trying to control them.

    So I'd say...

    Stop fighting and let go!

  2. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    I'd interpret this statement as giving me sanction to commit suicide, personally. Suicide is at bottom what I truly want to do, so if and when I am in a position to "stop fighting" and to "let go" that's the plan.

    BTW, one cliche that gets thrown around here that used to irritate me but now kind of amuses me is one you didn't post: "Stay safe." Every time I read where someone has posted it, the question that comes to my mind is, "What could be 'safer' than death? And what is less safe and more likely to be a source of misery than my continued existence?"
  3. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I don't believe anyone truly wants death? They want pain to end. They want problems to go away. Death appears to be the only answer for many, when it is not the only answer.
    When we have completely let go of the past and are in the present moment, why would we have any reason to want to kill ourselves?
  4. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    What are you basing that statement upon? From where I'm sitting it is akin to saying that because the vast majority of people in the world are heterosexual, I just don't believe anyone out there could possibly be homosexual.

    In any event, I do indeed truly want death. I guess it is your choice to either believe me or not. What keeps me alive, at least at present, is simply a sense of obligation I feel toward several people. Were they somehow no longer present in my life, I would remove myself. And I would do so with a smile on my face, without a glance backwards.

    Not in my case. The 'problem' is life itself.

    It may not be the only answer for you, but I see no way you can make such a sweeping generalization about everyone in the world.

    Why wouldn't you? What you're describing doesn't really sound all that attractive, personally.
  5. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    There's nothing wrong with living. Life itself can't be the problem. It's our judgements of life, that this is a bad place, things are bad, life sucks, life is terrible. All judgements that if we changed or let go of, would make life worth living.
  6. innocencexisxlove

    innocencexisxlove Well-Known Member

    Sorry gmork, but I really agree with Spencer here. A lot of times, the "supportive" statements we say are empty, and leave room to feel worse.

    :hug: sorry you truely feel like that though, gmork.
  7. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    No need to be sorry. I just see no basis in fact for these curious claims he's making. Presumably some sort of evidence shall be offered at some point, but until such time I am quite comfortable rejecting virtually everything put forth on this thread by fromthatshow.

    I quite agree. In fact, in my first response I was noting that not only are they empty they are open to multiple interpretations. Indeed, even interpretations that might run contrary to the intent of the individual making the statement.

    I don't disagree with this, though, again, I do note that a statement like "Stay safe," means something to me that is probably completely contrary to the sense it is typically used on this site. Fair enough?

    Why? I'm actually more at peace with myself now than I have been in decades, possibly forever. I've acknowledged, to myself at any rate, exactly what it is I want and the parameters under which I will grant myself this relief. Of course, in my case the "more at peace" bit is decidedly relative. I'm reasonably sure I will never be at peace until I'm at peace, if you will.
  8. innocencexisxlove

    innocencexisxlove Well-Known Member

    gmork, i'm sorry. i underestimated you. you're right in a lot of ways.

    i apologise.

  9. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Perhaps in your case, I have no issue with that. But what I disagree with this this assumption you seem to be operating under that everyone should think as you do. That not only makes no sense, I see no basis in reality to support such a claim. But before I proceed any further, please dispel my confusion: Do you claim this statement as an objective standard or simply as a personal opinion? And, if it is some sort of objective standard I'd kindly ask you provide your proof of this claim.

    Why not?

    Assuming this is how you've chosen to live your life and conduct your affairs, that's entirely your business. However, it seems to me you've confused your specific situation as something generalizable to all of humanity. Again, I would ask you to forthrightly state if you consider the above an opinion or something open to objective proof. And, again, I'd like to see the evidence in support of such a claim, assuming you consider the above something other than an unsupported opinion.
  10. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    I believe at our core, once you've torn off layers, people all want the same thing. We all are one. All want the same thing. That's probably where our viewpoints differ.

    Are you telling me since you've been bore your deepest desire has been to die?
    Believing that at the bottom of it all you want death is wanting to be special I think. There is always another way than suicide, and if for you, suicide is the only way, then you truly are different, special.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 25, 2008
  11. Notreally

    Notreally Member

    I think that fromthatshow is right
    Life is what we make of it.

    And obviously no one can get facts to prove the meaning of life.
  12. protonaut

    protonaut Well-Known Member

    I prefer a more neutral perspective. I would say there is nothing wrong with wanting to live, and there is nothing wrong with wanting to die, either. However, my view is not a universal law over all of humanity.

    I think some of you are making the mistake of trying to define your subjective views as objective.
  13. Anime-Zodiac

    Anime-Zodiac Well-Known Member

    It's the intent and thought that counts. Off course words like "keep fighting" and "Hold on" may seem empty but that is because most people who say this to a person don't really know that person. So it's down to you how you take these words.
  14. protonaut

    protonaut Well-Known Member

    Keep in mind that a conversation involves the speaker who makes these statements and the viewer who interprets them. The individual has some discretion here. How you choose to perceive words will determine whether they'll be offensive, neutral, or helpful - take note of your own role before placing full blame upon the speaker.
  15. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    Okay, so you're simply stating your opinion. At least we've now established that.

    Sigh. And then plunge right back into the unsupported assertions. So, what exactly is this 'same thing' we 'all want?'

    I am unwilling to impose my beliefs upon others, yes. And we do indeed seem to differ on that score.

    Not continuously since birth, no. But for long periods of time, yes, it has been.

    This statement makes absolutely no sense to me. What on earth do you mean by it? That I go through life trying to draw attention to myself? I assure you I do not. Not even on this forum, generally.

    It is nonexistence I am after, personally. Suicide is simply a means to an end. If I could achieve nonexistence by simply wishing it I would do so in an long as I could also wish myself out of the commitments that are at present keeping me here.

    Not for me, not at all, actually. I could die in an accident or contract a fatal disease. In fact that would be preferable for all concerned. Certainly would require less effort on my part.

    As opposed to your strange assertion that we're "all the same?"

    But, anyway, I don't in fact think this. I don't consider myself "special." There're upwards of 30,000 suicides in the USA each year alone. Presumably at least some of them shared some of my views. I certainly don't think I'm smart enough to be subscribing to some viewpoint unique in human history.
  16. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    How am I imposing my beliefs? We're just discussing. It's not like I'm at your house knocking on your window...
  17. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    The simple fact of the matter is most people don't have a fucking clue what they're talking about when they say stupid shit. The closest most of them have ever been to major depression was having their heart broken in high school. Not saying that isn't depressing but it's nothing like serious long-term depression that just never lets up. Those people are generally depressed for a while and they get over it. Something actually caused their depression. Something they could do something about.

    They're making shit up. Or they're telling you what worked for them. Which is generally useless because everybody is different. They might just be trying to help but there are a lot of ignorant sadists out there who take every opportunity to say something mean and callous.
  18. unbearable

    unbearable Well-Known Member

    Can you please elaborate more on this?
  19. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    There are a lot of us here that want to die, but it's always because something, even if we can't see it at the moment. Like gmork said, he hasn't wanted to die continuously since birth, so obviously something changed his mind, it is not a core feeling, it is on the surface.
    If you believe in God it makes no sense. Why would God make someone's deepest desire to die? If you don't believe in God it still makes no sense. As a species, why would any member of that species be born with an innermost desire to self-destruct? That wouldn't be a very good job of keeping the species going.
    So while I acknowledge that a lot of here really do want to die, I refuse to believe that anyone at their core with all the layers torn down will be left with nothing except wanting to die.

    It is wanting to be special because it is wanting to be different from the rest of humanity. I'm not talking about wanting to die or even suicide itself, but to believe that you are suicidal at your core. That you are destined for suicide. Made to self destruct. That, I think, is wanting to be special.

    I don't think most people come to this forum with the idea that some people's deepest desire is to die. That's why we try and help people. To find themselves again, find the good in life again. If someone was really meant to die by their own hands, the best we could do is say, wow I'm sorry, that's really terrible, good luck. But we don't do that because I don't think anyone really believes that to be true. There is always something underneath feeling suicidal. It's not at the bottom.

    Sorry if that was repetetive. I try to explain myself the best I can.
  20. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    Yes true, I definitly wasn't trying to make this thread about blame. I was just wanting to take a deeper look at things we say often. I realize it is mostly about intent but I'm the kind of person who likes to tear everything to shreads. Look deeper at everything.
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