Killing in the name of...

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by boo, Jun 2, 2010.

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  1. boo

    boo Well-Known Member

    Aquarius123 "inspired" me to make this thread. Now now, i don't want to start a flame war. Just some food for thoughts.

    Be it the Catholics, Christians, Muslims or wtv. Why do they think killing in the name of God is justified?

    Catholics, for example, apparently think killing in the name of Jesus-God is 'love' and moral and good and merciful. According to the Bible, he repeatedly commanded his followers to kidnap, enslave, rape, torture, and kill people of all ages. Charming, eh? Thank Goodness most Christians don't actually obey God very often!

    he ENTIRE Bible, including hundreds of verses (read the whole thing for the inexcusable context) such as:

    Luke 19:27 Jesus said, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

    Genesis 6:7 "And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them."

    Exodus 10:20 "But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, so that he would not let the children of Israel go."

    Numbers 31:17-18 "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."

    Ezekiel 9:6 "Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women . . . "

    Isaiah 13:16 "Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished."

    Deuteronomy 13:15 "Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly . . . "

    Leviticus 20:9 "For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death . . . "

    Exodus 32:27 ". . . Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour."

    Deut 21:10-12 "When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the LORD thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; "

    Exodus 31:15 " . . . whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."

    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 "If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear."


    Very disturbing...
     
  2. Perfect Melancholy

    Perfect Melancholy SF Friend

    Boo seriously I could not have worded that better honestly my thoughts preciously, it makes me wonder what level humanity has sunk too when I watch the news and see people killing innocent children in the name of god, Allah, or whoever they believe in. >.<

    I am not saying believing in something is wrong, every man women child has the right to select their faith, at the same time they have to respect other people beliefs.

    Do we not rate ourselves as an intelligent race? Then why do we act as animals, what drives us to destroy ourselves and each other?

    I belief faith is important although I lack belief myself, it sets moral guidance in which we can live our lives, for example treating each other with dignity and respect, but when the hell will we learn to stop blowing the crap out of each other?

    Is your god really going to say "well done dude, you killed 10 innocent children who had done nothing wrong" welcome to heaven/paradise." Well for me if that god did, I can do without them.

    Once again I have ranted so many times about Religion u.u so I apologise I am not after a group hug, just can we all respect each others beliefs? And that we all have the right to believe and wish what we want?

    We are all in this together, it is a tough enough world. If you are loving caring genures and kind well that is enough, it is time people made a stand and an example as a generation we should be standing side by side not against each other.
     
  3. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    There will always be people willing to kill for a number of reasons and beliefs, be they religious or secular in nature. No high-minded belief system can make up for those among our race who are corrupt, amoral, or misguided, and who will abuse and degenerate human ideas.
     
  4. IV2010

    IV2010 Well-Known Member


    Be it the Catholics, Christians, Muslims or wtv. Why do they think killing in the name of God is justified?


    I wonder the same thing Boo......
    too much killing in this world......
     
  5. Infinite Sadness

    Infinite Sadness Well-Known Member

    Because at the end of the day, we ARE animals. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Oh man, don't get me started on organised religion!! :/
    hehe
     
  6. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Why do you believe killing yourself is justified?
     
  7. flyingdutchmen

    flyingdutchmen Well-Known Member

    the statements in the bible have been written over 3000 years ago by over 50 different persons. correct me if i may be wrong, but how come everything else in this world does modernize exept the socalled 'holy books' like the bible. we dont drive cars build in 1900 do we ? no, we now have ABS airbags ESP etc.. to make the world a safer place. the rasist clans (KKK) that have been somewhat 'legal' 60 years ago are not tolerated anymore (for a good reason). gay people can get a legal marriage today and even adopt children. public executions have been banned in the western world and other country's may be still strugling with this but are somewhat following the west while they develop. now what i do not understand... how come this book which is preaching murder in a brutal way in some verses is not able to be modernized while everything else can ?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2010
  8. Infinite Sadness

    Infinite Sadness Well-Known Member

    If you change some things, what's wrong with changing others? Who would dictate what to change and how? Would people then think it ok to change it themselves and what would the repercussions of that be then? Loss of faith, power, and revenue?
     
  9. boo

    boo Well-Known Member

    Because they are waiting for their God.
     
  10. flyingdutchmen

    flyingdutchmen Well-Known Member

    as far as i am informed the church does have an leader which calls himself
    the pope supported by many kardinals. if they have no authority about their own lecture and community then who does ? the radical statements in the books must be changed or removed before being published and being spread to the people who call themself their followers. to me this is not about faith power or money, this is what 'they' owe the world. this is the least they can do after having used abused and raped million of children wordwide for decades. here in holland and even more in germany every day tens of people come forward who have claimed to be raped by the leaders of catholic schools. priests who have been active in the 60-70's and have been preaching the bible for years are being arested as we speak. many victems have been payed silence money. if there is nobody being responsible for these acts then how can this community even exist ? ofcourse it is possible to "restructure" the entire organization like it can be done with every other organization and it has been done before in the 60's after WWII
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2010
  11. Lovecraft

    Lovecraft Well-Known Member

    I'm still an empiricist but studying the Eastern religions like Hinduism, Taoism and Buddhism has restored some level of my confidence that spirituality doesn't have to be a complete brain-fuck of stupidity. In fact Hinduism sees science as completely accurate and useful - their core beliefs are only things outside of what science can study at all.
     
  12. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    Dear Vita Infinite - thank you for opening this thread and for the amount of food for thought you are providing for us. As I have only just discovered this thread, please forgive me for taking a while to respond to it.

    In my view, the Bible is a great work that contains many nuggets of golden spiritual wisdom and truth, but when one takes every one of its words literally one more likely creates obstacles instead of overcoming them. I believe that none of the religions that are still part of our world were intended to be with us forever. I believe that the teachings that are contained in the sacred texts of books like the Torah, the Bible or the Koran, to name but three, were not meant to be treated as if they had been set in concrete or chiselled into stone for all eternity. They were given to humankind, through various teachers over the ages, so that in the fullness of time each one would be replaced by more advanced teachings at some future date.

    Spiritual wisdom and knowledge is a living organism that grows and evolves, the same as everything else in the whole of Creation, including us and our world. New religions appear at certain predestined times to serve humankind because our race is ready to receive more of the Divine truth; when they have lost their usefulness they are removed and replaced by something else. A good belief system is capable of taking on the role of a staff human souls can lean on for a while, during some of their journeys through Earth life. And religions that are worthy of carrying that name aim to act as ladders that invite and encourage human souls to climb it, so that it may rediscover its origin in God and reconnect with the Divine.

    Finally, however, the soul is guided into the realisation that no-one can really teach it anything because in the depths of its own being, through its oneness with God, it contains all existing knowledge. On its return into this blessed state the Universe presents the soul with many opportunities for learning from its own experiences that the answers to all its questions really are known within, and that this is the only place where each one of them is always answered truthfully.

    My experience has shown that some are using Bible’s teachings to act as a protective shield for them to hide behind, but from what? Maybe their own true feelings for someone? I cannot help the feeling that the Universe is giving those who do a lesson of a very special kind, so that their own experiences may eventually guide them into the realisation of how destructive such behaviour patterns in fact are. Finding out what our true feelings for someone are can only be done through listening to our inner guidance, which has its origin in our Highest or God Self. This is the only place where the answers to all our questions are known. Bearing in mind that the Bible’s words were written for another world, for other times and other cultures than ours, instead of turning for advice to words that have remained unchanged, frozen in space and time, to my mind it is better by far to seek our own contact with the living God within.

    From the evolutionary plateau we have reached by now it is not hard to see that hiding behind a barrier of Bible or other spiritual teachings has never been a substitute for consciously making wise decisions and choices, for taking responsibility for our actions by following our inner guidance. Doing so is the very reason why we are at present in this life. Blindly following anyone’s teachings is not what the Universe demands at this special time from any of us, its children of the Earth. We are here to learn how take responsibility for ourselves and every one of our thoughts, words and actions, and we are all required to make our own decisions about what we can and want to believe.

    We are responsible for what we allow to enter our consciousness and the only reason for accepting anything is when the small still voice of consciences within prompts us: ‘This is true!’ or ‘This makes sense!’ This part speaks to us through the world of our feelings. It has always been with us, but for far too long it has been suppressed and ignored by – I dare say – all of us. When something feels right or wrong, then that’s what it is. We ignore this guidance from within very much to our detriment, because in everything that is in our lives, we ourselves are the bottom line. We are the only ones who can decide what is still of value to us today and what needs to be discarded. To find out whether any spiritual teachings are still valid for us these days, we need to feel inside our own heart and listen to the responses that come from within the very core of our own being by the small still voice of conscience, which has been with us since times immemorial.

    BEAUTIFUL THINGS
    Knowing that beautiful things are right and true,
    And that beautiful actions please God,
    Helps wise ones to develop their inward sense of
    What is right, true and beautiful.

    The highest wisdom is to trust
    One’s intuition and to follow its guidance and
    The answer to the last appeal of what is right or wrong
    Lies within everybody’s own heart.
    So, trust thyself.

    Aristotle 384-322 BC.

    With love and light,
    Aquarius
     
  13. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    From what I gather from both modern and ancient history, nearly every war ever was originally started because of some sort of religious conflict.

    I don't get it... honestly... I've just never understood why people couldn't just accept that everyone believes in something different and that's perfectly fine.
    That's just part of my own belief system.
    Call me crazy; but I see no reason to start wars- to fight and kill and die in the name of _______.
    Material possessions, land and 'bragging rights' really are not worth tainting your own soul and risking your life and others lives for.

    That is just a part of human nature though. We like to destroy stuff.
     
  14. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    I've reached the same conclusion. These faiths are the closest to maintaining a balance between science and spirituality, while generally being absent of the dogma and conservativism which have tainted most other religions (although exceptions, as always, certainly exist).
     
  15. alices_ponder

    alices_ponder Well-Known Member

    I noticed that as well and in my opinion, it is and was such a waste of time to fight over other peoples beliefs. It is still happening in our world today actually, and I don't understand why.:blink:
     
  16. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    Dear KittyGirl - I wouldn't call that crazy! I'd call it a voice in the wilderness coming from one who does already understand the things that truly matter in life.

    As far as making wars in the name of whatever is concerned, Hosea 8:7 from the Old Testament of the Bible strikes an early warning note: ‘They have sown the wind and they have reaped the whirlwind; it has no stalk, nor an ear to yield meal; and if it were to yield, the strangers shall eat it.’

    I believe that this teaching has not just one but two hidden esoteric meanings. First it refers to the law of Karma and that what we send out into the world must return to us. But that is no means all there is to it! In keeping with the Universal laws the force of whatever any one of us creates through their thought processes and the actions that follow these thoughts in our world will always increase; it gathers ever more strength and momentum. This demonstrates the urgent need for learning to control our thought processes, for in this aspect of life, the same as all others, the dictum that practice makes perfect applies. The more we work on something, anything, the better we become at it.

    The way I understand this life is that we are part of God and God is part of us. On our own we are nothing and certainly cannot create anything, but as co-creators with God – within reason and with the help and the will of God – we can create anything. As living parts of the ever expanding Universal energies, we are expansive and dynamic beings. This expresses itself in abstract as well as in visible terms, and given time all our creations enlarge. This shows in the way we learn; the more we learn the more our consciousness expands; the more we give, the more we receive, and so forth. This principle applies to everything we send out into our world and it is well worth our while to carefully watch every thought, word and action. However, the knowledge of these things puts us in charge of our destiny, because this way we can indeed ensure that only the right things return to us.

    Whatever we create, for good and for evil, more of the same inevitably comes flooding back to us. For example, being loving generates more love; living peacefully brings more peace, whereas war faring returns to us and our world as ever more destructive wars, as the past has clearly shown. Let us not fool ourselves! On the spiritual level of life cheating does not exist and escape from or avoiding the unerring justice of the Universal laws is impossible. The more human souls become aware that God is always with us and that therefore nothing ever gets away from the scrutiny of Its all-seeing eye, the more it is likely that we shall strive to conduct our lives with honesty and integrity. In this way we, each through their own efforts, are capable of changing the course of our own destiny as well as that of individual nations, our whole world and the whole of Creation.

    It is not difficult to see how our chances of making some real progress on the evolutionary spiral increase because of all the knowledge we are now allowed access to. It really does set us free to consciously decide which way we wish to travel in future. Further down into darkness and evil or up and ever up back into the light of our true being, at one with our Highest Self, the choice is ours. Becoming aware of our true nature and taking charge of our destiny is an immensely empowering experience, but it also brings us the responsibility of choosing wisely. It’s a great time and energy saver as well, because whenever we are in difficult situations, we no longer look towards others to provide us with the answers to our questions. Instead, we go within and consult with our inner teacher and guide.

    As you can see, taking responsibility for everything that is in our life is a wonderfully liberating experience. One cannot help wondering how long it will be until the leaders of our world, business, political and spiritual also grow wise to that. The Universe tests the human soul constantly to establish how much understanding it has thus far developed, and the trials of power are particularly difficult ones. Would that the consciousness of all those who are presently in leading positions throughout our world, wake up to the fact that no-one on the Earth plane has any real power. This would help them to recognise their responsibility for wisely handling any power that has been entrusted to them.

    May the orgy of destruction of places like Berlin, Leipzig, Chemnitz and Dresden – in particular on February 13 and 15, 1945 – serve as a reminder of how Germany, because it sowed the wind of war, could not escape the consequences of its actions. Universal justice worked through the Allies and ensured that we, the civilian population, had to reap the bitter harvest of what our politicians had sown. The historian Frederick Taylor wrote about the destruction of Dresden: ‘It has an epically tragic quality to it. Dresden was a wonderfully beautiful city and a symbol of baroque humanism and all that was best in Germany. It also contained all the worst from Germany during the Nazi period. In that sense it is an absolutely exemplary tragedy for the horrors of twentieth century warfare…’

    Let this be a warning to all those who to this day are walking on the warpath. We also need to consider that – as always – there is more to these events than meets the eye. The world around us is a reflection of what is happening within, an outer manifestation of the inner realities of humankind, in cases like these. Because of this, manmade and natural disasters alike are part of the Universal justice of the law of Karma.

    Should you now ask: ‘How can we as individuals counteract this?’ my reply would be: ‘A great deal could be achieved if all who read this go within themselves in their prayers and meditations, and ask that the radiance of the light of wisdom from the Highest Star may flow into the hearts and souls of all political, business and spiritual leaders of our world – to help them with their awakening.’

    With love and light,
    Aquarius​
     
  17. boo

    boo Well-Known Member

    You sure put that copy and paste to work, i'll give it to you Aquarius. You're from Oprah.com forum aren't you? Because everytime i google your text, it leads me there.
     
  18. Aquarius123

    Aquarius123 Well-Known Member

    Well, thanks and God bless, dear Infinite One. Hope you don't mind too much that I do. As you will appreciate, it saves a lot of time as well as tedium writing the same things over and over again. And yes, I am a member of the Oprah Winfrey Forum, but also of several others. They are an excellent way of meeting new people and making new friends, don't you think?

    With love - Aquarius ​
     
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