Knowing for sure that the future is messed up...

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by someone_, Nov 2, 2007.

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  1. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    I have severe depression and social phobia as well. I've been in this depression for so long that I don't even remember how it feels not to be depressed. I'm depressed for a lot of reasons but the one that can't be resolved is the fact that I'm gay.

    It makes me sick to think about a future without kids and just a lonely future. It doesn't matter how I change my life or what I do, I'll never have the life I wanted and not make anyone proud.

    I'll give a general example. I just visited a gay forum where someone posted his picture and you have this 60 year old talking about the shape of the dick, the balls and some seriously disgusting stuff. It's revolting. The thought that a 60 year old has to say that on the internet instead of being a grandfather and a family man... it's sad. I don't want to be like that.

    Then somewhere else I saw pictures of other people and it does not feel natural to me. The more I'm grossed out with them and what I read in their apperances and facial expressions, the worse it makes me feel about myself.

    I'm very lonely right now too. I don't have a single friend. I don't enjoy life and when the present's fucked up and the future is bound to be not what I want, why would I even want to be alive? What am I living for?
     
  2. lulu rose

    lulu rose Guest

    I dont know what anyone can say to change your mind. But just because you're gay doesnt mean you have to be like that 60 year old man. You dont have to talk about the shape of peoples genitles or be disgusting if you dont want to be.

    Gay is your sexuality not your personality. And you can have kids. You can adopt,, adoption is an extreamly honorable thing to do, it really is. Think of it. Those poor children were put into adoption for whatever reasons and they need someone to take care of them, and as far as I know theres nothing against a gay couple adopting.

    Not all gay men are all about the sex, there are some of them who are like you, who just want a happy life with a family, it's just finding them thats the hard part. But if you dont try to find them, then you wont have you tried those sites, that match you up. There are some really happy couples who found love through those means. Where do you live anyway, you might be able to find some groups (not gay clubs or bars) but community groups that you could go to to talk about everything and make friends.

    Hun, from your post, I cant tell much about who you are, but you're obviously a very pleasent and sensative person, and dont worry, being gay doesnt mean you have to be like that 60 year old guy. You can be gay and you can have a family.
     
  3. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    The beauty of clinical depression is that you don't need a reason to feel depressed. The corollary to this is that one doesn't need a reason to be feel happy. I'm both introverted and gay, and I think the introversion is a bigger contributor to depression than my internalized homophobia.

    One of the few guys I dated in college was a pre-med student who wanted to adopt kids. Another way of being involved is to be a mentor. Lots of kids don't have fathers, and so many of them need mentors:

    http://www.beamentor.org/

    Personally, I plan to donate to UNICEF, do some computer-related volunteer work for learning-disabled students, etc.

    As long as you don't give up, you will make it. Suicide is the only guarantee of not reaching your potential.

    For existential relief from online sexual nihilism, go to Match.com or Chemistry.com and search for potential boyfriends. I like Chemistry.com the most. I live near a college town, so lots of the guys there have PhDs.

    I think you really identified the primary problem here. You need to socialize more. Meetup.com is one way to find social clubs in your area. You may also find people using Friendster, Facebook, MySpace, and the "strictly platonic" section of Craigslist. More traditional ways of meeting people are, of course, the workplace, and also some professional or hobby groups.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2007
  4. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    Thanks for the replies.

    I'll never be selfish enough to raise a kid with a man in this tough world. I'd also want kids of my own, to grow old in a way that always keeps me surrounded with others. It's even hard for me to see myself growing old with a man. If we ever break up or he dies, what will be left? Straight people always have children and others that will ALWAYS be there.

    That's not just why I want kids. I want kids of my own and to raise them in a way that's good for me and them. And the thing is, no matter how I go about it I'll never have a comfortable safe life. It really makes me think future is worthless. But then I'm also scared of suicide and what might happen later.

    As for communites and stuff like that, I'd rather not go. I live in a small place so it's just likely I'll know people there or people that know people I know.


    I'm introverted as well. See, while I appreciate everyone's suggestions and alternatives for not having kids of my own, that's exactly what I mean when I say it's overwhelming sometimes to understand that no matter what I do, I'll never have a perfect future. Right, not everyone has perfect lives but most people have the potential to work hard for a perfect future. I don't, no matter what I do. It's not motivating.

    I tried to socialize but I was very uncomfortable at the gay club I went to. Add social anxiety to the mix and it's even worse. Clubs are not for everyone, but I got social anxiety only around the age of 14 and I was quite the opposite before so once again it kills me how "gone" I really am already. Then I have this "future" to look forward to... And I'm just not motivated. I'm also studying and my depression is ruining that too.

    I met up with a few guys online. Only had experience with one and it ended up badly. I haven't tried to meet anyone since that one time.
     
  5. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    Regarding "the perfect future," one of many cognitive distortions of depression is all-or-nothing thinking. A therapist would be ideal for identifying and challenging such negative thought patterns.

    Keep in mind that people with depression can be more convinced of a hopeless future than terminally ill patients with cancer.

    Social anxiety is relatively common among young adults. It's an epidemic in Japan. It is not only treatable but curable. The best way to get over it is to force yourself into social situations until you become habituated to socializing with others more, even if you feel uncomfortable and stressed. You may feel you have already done this with no success, but socializing is something you need to do constantly in order to do it well. Also, seeing a therapist can greatly accelerate and motivate progress. Having said all this, just getting older can make it easier to be sociable since life is inherently habituating.

    Since you are having problems being optimistic, forget about the future for now. Part of the reason you aren't happy is that you aren't addressing your current psychological needs, such as for socialization. Forget about when you are 60 years old. Suicide is due to psyche ache, which is pain resulting from current psychological needs not being met.

    Another potential issue you may have is an excessive need for control, which is related to anxiety (worrying about the future) and the human desire for predictability. Some people would rather know for certain that tommorow would suck than be unsure about it. Exercise can help reduce such anxiety levels, and so can music, therapy, socialization, watching comedies, etc.

    That's called learned helplessness. The opposite of learned helplessness is learned optimism. You really are having very classic symptoms of depressed thinking that a therapist could easily challenge and help you overcome. If you are a college student, almost all universities provide mental health counseling. However, if you have medical insurance, you might as well see a therapist in private practice.

    A growing number of straight couples are deciding not to have children. Studies have shown that being married is important for happines but raising children is overrated. If you don't believe me, read the best seller "Stumbling on Happiness."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2007
  6. lulu rose

    lulu rose Guest

    You know what you're talking about. Even though it seems bleak to you hun, and it seems like you cant do it on your own. You'll never know if you dont reach out.

    If you chose to see a school counciler and they have a syatem in place for booking e.c.t make sure you're seen asap. At my university, on the morning of the 10th october this year I tried to see the uni councilers, I was shaking, I looked a mess and there were tears in my eyes I said "can I please see someone, I really need some help" but they turned me away. DONT LET THEM DO THAT TO YOU!, Please dont let them turn you away! if you chose to see someone and you feel like you need it there and then, tell them you do tell them why and tell them what could happen if you dont see someone right now. I diddnt tell them, I let them turn me away and that night I tried to overdose, and it was all because I felt that no one wanted to know, no one wanted to help, but it was only because I diddnt say anything. I diddnt outright tell them that my life way in danger.

    Dont ever let any doctor, counciler, psychiatrist anyone brush you off or tell you "it's a phase" because you know it isn't and you know it's serious, so you make them understand in whatever way you can.

    You sound like such a sweet person, I havnt ever met a man who wants children. I'm glad they exsist. Even if I dont know you in person, I like you and think that you're a very decent human being. I know it probablly doesn't help though. I just wanted to say it.
     
  7. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    Like most males, you may be overfocusing on romantic relationships as a source for emotional support and friendship:

    Dude, Time for a Hug

    A recurring theme in gay movies is the importance of platonic friendships, e.g. The Broken Hearts Club.

    In any case, the average American will spend most of his or her adult life being single, with a series of monogomous relationships and at least one marriage:


    Most colleges and some towns have gay organizations that provide socialization and support. Also, people can easily start to dislike the atmosphere of bars and clubs, which is one reason online dating is popular among young adults.

    That's a good point. One must aggressively seek treatment. Most depression is severely undertreated. Feeling suicidal today can easily result in being actively suicidal tomorrow. An unexpected triggering event is all that is necessary.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2007
  8. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    I tried to reply in an organized way but that turned out more messy than anything else.

    While I know depression has obviously affected my mind and how Id choose to do things, unfortunately I know that a pefect future can never happen because of that technical detail that I'm gay. I won't have a family. Yes I can adopt but I wouldn't be that selfish. I won't have my own kids. It's scary that no matter what I do, it'll be like that regardless.

    No positive thinking will ever give me that. And yeah, a lot of people on't want kids and yet they're still gonna have them and that pisses me off too... Not that I want them NOW but in the futue yes. That's nice of you, lulu rose. You sound decent yourself and I'm sorry about what happened to you.

    I go to school everyday and I still don't get over my social anxiety. I have no one to talk to there so that probably keeps things as bad. I don't sweat, blush or shake but I don't like seeing a lot of people. I don't know how else to force getting more used to people, I'm not gonna go out on my own all the time. I'm trying to get a part-time job but I don't know if I can pass a job interview the way I am. I already failed one. I'm not nice or "alive" looking. They're gonna choose more "upbeat" people when it comes to social jobs.h

    I've considered coming out to the school counselor but I don't know if I trust her. I don't know if I want her to know things about me when my brother might also go that school sometime and she'll know weird details about his brother. I don't know if I want to see her everyday once she knows everything about me. My depression's getting out of control and I think some talking can help. I'd rather have platonic friends like you said but making friends at this point isn't easy. Too late for friends from school and making friends on the internet is rare. And even if I do try to make friends online, that's just one person... and when that one goes away it's back to nothing. I was trying to make friends online all year but nothing.
     
  9. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    All mental health counselors keep anything you say confidential. This was true even before the HIPAA regulations.

    Do you honestly believe that anyone in the history of mankind has ever had a perfect existence? Your point seems to be that you are mandating certain conditions that you deem necessary to have a worthwhile existence. You then deny yourself those same conditions with no logical basis for doing so. Furthermore, though this concern does not seem to be about the near future, you seem to believe suicide is currently a valid option. See a therapist, please :)

    Why would that be selfish? Adopting is a very selfless act. Some of the happiest kids are from gay families. It would a lot easier to argue that not adopting would be selfish.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2007
  10. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    I don't know if I want that specific counselor, though. I can't find free counselors in my area and I can't afford treatment. Wish I just had real friends and an accpeting family. Maybe opening up could make a big difference. It's been building up for so long I'm a totally different person and all for the worse. I don't know how much worse it can get. I had a real suicide plan at 15 and it's scary I stayed in the same place all this time.

    No, but what keeps most people motivated is knowing things can be great to them if they work hard. They have the potential for a perfect future. I don't, at best possible scenerio I won't have an ideal future. And I'm not talking about small flaws everyone will have, not having a real family is significant.
     
  11. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    I think that in a world like this, raising a kid with someone of the same sex can't be healthy for the kid, that's how it could be selfish. Just because I want kids doesn't mean the kid should go through hell because of that. And to be honest it seems unnatural to me, just one of those things you can't help. I have nothing against people that do adopt, I just wouldn't feel good about it myself.

    Also, I'd like to have kids that are my own because that's just a perference I can't help.
     
  12. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    I assume then you don't have medical insurance? And that your college doesn't offer mental health services?

    If you are anywhere near a big university, they often have a psychology clinic that is open to the public for very low, sliding-scale fees. This is separate from the free mental health services that 4-year universities provide to their full-time or even part-time students.

    Also, most parents can afford therapy. They just aren't used to paying for it.

    Definitely.

    OK, but I don't agree that you can't have the family you want. I also can't agree that you need X, Y, and Z to be happy. There are people whose children have died of cancer who live happy, meaningful lives.

    Anyway, an issue that you fail to address is the impact your suicide would have on your parents. Having listened to the 911 tape of a mother finding her son dead from suicide, I think you really need to think about the harsh realities of suicide if your continue to view suicide as an option. Another romantic, idealistic assumption you have is that a suicide attempt wouldn't cause you to be a quadriplegic for the rest of your life. Unless you have Dr. Kevorkian working for you (and he doesn't take cases anymore), there is no way to guarantee your suicide won't be botched by your unconscious survival instincts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2007
  13. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    Here is an example of how you may be very inclined to be pessimistic about your future:

    You currently feel depressed, repressed, and lonely. A direct result of your feeling unhappy and depressed is a lack of productivity since life feels like all spinach and no dessert. Instrinsic motivations like the joy of learning and the joy of being productive seem insufficient because of your depressed state. Since focusing on solving your current psychological needs would be inititally distressing and uncomfortable, you become hyperfocused on extrinstic, long-term motivations. Not coincidentally, the long-term goals you believe are necessary for future happiness are the same goals you believe are not realistic. Unconsciously, this gives you the perfect excuse to continue your habitual patterns of avoidance, including social withdrawal and avoidance of mental health services.
     
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  14. someone_

    someone_ Active Member

    I'd rather not involve others if I go to therapy. Certainly not family. They'd be judgemental and they're prettyt old fashioned.

    About opening up... I think only a therapist would be good for most of the things I have to say. I already opened up to someone and it backfired badly. The regret is still big. No one's attracted to people in pathetic situations and not everyone has to know my personality "errors" because I don't need generalizations or people knowing my weaknesses. It would probably help to have a platonic gay friend but I tried that all year.

    I know suicide would be terrible for some people around me. That's why I didn't go through with my suicide plan a few years ago. But staying on the edge for years since that point without getting help might make me lose it sometime to the point I won't think about that anymore. I used to think it was selfish but now I see how people can get into that state. There are some awakrd moments like my nervous breakdown I can't totally remember or "get into" with memory. Almost like I was crazy.

    The last pagraph is so sadly true. It's not even that "unconscious" but I can't let go of it just because I know I self destruct. I'm addicted to this. I don't remember what's it like out of this. I can't suddenly be all upbeat and friendly in a job interview and start going out with friends (they'd have to exist first) and I can't just get more focused at school because of that. My libido's so non-existant as well. There's not one area that hasn't been affected by my depression.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2007
  15. SoHappyItHurts

    SoHappyItHurts Well-Known Member

    That is a good point. Friends tend to make terrible therapists, as you have already experienced.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2007
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