LSD and psilocybin

[Lady Wolfshead]

Mod edit: I moved this thread here to discuss this as a therapeutic treatment. This discussion can be had here as a discussion for therapy for mental and emotional disturbance but not as a "storytelling" thread and all parts as such have to be removed according to the SF rules.


I actually had a really fantastic dream last night, and it's influencing how I feel today. Just giving me some hope. The dream itself was a bit nonsensical but I think the gods were trying to tell me I still have strength, youth, love, wonder and creativity.

Yes it was a hell of a dream.

Man I REALLY want to go on one of those psilocybin trips that is one of the emerging new treatments for depression. Hey, I know I could just get the stuff myself but I really want it to be legit.

 

[Dark111]

I actually had a really fantastic dream last night, and it's influencing how I feel today. Just giving me some hope. The dream itself was a bit nonsensical but I think the gods were trying to tell me I still have strength, youth, love, wonder and creativity.

Yes it was a hell of a dream.

Man I REALLY want to go on one of those psilocybin trips that is one of the emerging new treatments for depression. Hey, I know I could just get the stuff myself but I really want it to be legit.

This is something I've always been curious about and perhaps you have a better understanding of this than I.

I'm quite skeptical about psilocybin, or an psychedelic, as a treatment for depression, or any mental illness. My brother took it only once and he said he experienced extreme terror. He thought he was going insane. Shortly afterwards he developed a panic disorder and good ole fashioned country doctor we had, he was prescribed valium to which he became very addicted. Perhaps there is new research I'm not familiar with, but I always remember Aldous Huxley warning in his book "The Doors Of Perception", that if you are not already of sound body and mind, when it comes to psychedelics, you're in for a trip to hell. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[Walker]

if you are not already of sound body and mind, when it comes to psychedelics, you're in for a trip to hell.

This ^^ Entirely true. If you are sketchy mental health wise or even on that day, you can have a nightmare of a time. The slightest triggers can set you off in that moment - a dog barking is suddenly just terrifying or a stranger is suddenly definitely an ax murderer you need to get away from. I have had to psych myself through many a trip with "hey, you paid for this... this is what you want to do so chill out... calm down, this isn't going to last forever..."
I *think* that when dosing for MH they're lowering that from "hey yeah this is a great fun time" to "this is pretty mellow and I can feel it but don't feel like I can fly when I look out the window"

 

[Sunspots]

I went pretty heavy with psychedelics as a teenager and the thought of using that to improve mental health just seems like those researchers are off their heads (maybe they've been helping themselves to too much of the stock).
But I guess it's similar to the ketamine treatment - the doses are so refined and carefully administered that it has almost no resemblance to the street version.

 

[Aurelia]

This ^^ Entirely true. If you are sketchy mental health wise or even on that day, you can have a nightmare of a time. The slightest triggers can set you off in that moment - a dog barking is suddenly just terrifying or a stranger is suddenly definitely an ax murderer you need to get away from. I have had to psych myself through many a trip with "hey, you paid for this... this is what you want to do so chill out... calm down, this isn't going to last forever..."
I *think* that when dosing for MH they're lowering that from "hey yeah this is a great fun time" to "this is pretty mellow and I can feel it but don't feel like I can fly when I look out the window"

This is why I'm never doing LSD. I'm afraid it might end with me jumping out of a window or some shit.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

This is something I've always been curious about and perhaps you have a better understanding of this than I.

I'm quite skeptical about psilocybin, or an psychedelic, as a treatment for depression, or any mental illness. My brother took it only once and he said he experienced extreme terror. He thought he was going insane. Shortly afterwards he developed a panic disorder and good ole fashioned country doctor we had, he was prescribed valium to which he became very addicted. Perhaps there is new research I'm not familiar with, but I always remember Aldous Huxley warning in his book "The Doors Of Perception", that if you are not already of sound body and mind, when it comes to psychedelics, you're in for a trip to hell. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

There's a lot of new research. The drug is pure and standardized, and administered under conditions which favour a "good trip" such as having a loved one present, and under medical supervision. The results from clinical trials done in Europe are excellent. I am terrified of psychedelics but I would try it. To my understanding, a "bad trip" can be mitigated or reversed by having someone there to calm you down.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

I went pretty heavy with psychedelics as a teenager and the thought of using that to improve mental health just seems like those researchers are off their heads (maybe they've been helping themselves to too much of the stock).
But I guess it's similar to the ketamine treatment - the doses are so refined and carefully administered that it has almost no resemblance to the street version.

Yeah I think this is the case.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

This is something I've always been curious about and perhaps you have a better understanding of this than I.

I'm quite skeptical about psilocybin, or an psychedelic, as a treatment for depression, or any mental illness. My brother took it only once and he said he experienced extreme terror. He thought he was going insane. Shortly afterwards he developed a panic disorder and good ole fashioned country doctor we had, he was prescribed valium to which he became very addicted. Perhaps there is new research I'm not familiar with, but I always remember Aldous Huxley warning in his book "The Doors Of Perception", that if you are not already of sound body and mind, when it comes to psychedelics, you're in for a trip to hell. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

Also, your brother's experience does show that the drug can have an effect which far outlasts the actual intoxication. Imagine if he'd had a GOOD trip.

Since the subjects in the clinical trials were already suffering anxiety and depression, they were not technically of sound mind, yet still had good results.

 

[Sevven]

I actually had a really fantastic dream last night, and it's influencing how I feel today. Just giving me some hope. The dream itself was a bit nonsensical but I think the gods were trying to tell me I still have strength, youth, love, wonder and creativity.

Yes it was a hell of a dream.

Man I REALLY want to go on one of those psilocybin trips that is one of the emerging new treatments for depression. Hey, I know I could just get the stuff myself but I really want it to be legit.

I always wonder if we're allowed to talk about psychedelics here. I believe them to be very beneficial

 

[Sevven]

@Walker, you're an admin right? Psychedelics are honestly one of my all time favorite topics but I wasn't sure if that was "okay" on here. So, would it be appropriate to do a thread on it? And if so, would others like to discuss it more? Maybe @Aurelia @Dark111 @Lady Wolfshead @Sunspots
I have lots of experience and I believe it to be very beneficial for me personally, but it's different from person to person and varies based on set and setting. Could be an interesting conversation.

 

[Dark111]

@Walker, you're an admin right? Psychedelics are honestly one of my all time favorite topics but I wasn't sure if that was "okay" on here. So, would it be appropriate to do a thread on it? And if so, would others like to discuss it more? Maybe @Aurelia @Dark111 @Lady Wolfshead @Sunspots
I have lots of experience and I believe it to be very beneficial for me personally, but it's different from person to person and varies based on set and setting. Could be an interesting conversation.

I don't speak for the others you mention there, but I speak for myself. Some people have the right psychological makeup to have good a experiences from taking psychedelics and others don't, it's a simple as that. I can't even smoke marijuana, which has psychedelic properties. The few times I tried I didn't get anxious or paranoid, I got extremely irritable and just really bloody hungry. And I listened to all that about being with the right person and in the right setting, so I tried it a few times and same result every time. Mescalin was another one I tried and it made me quite violent. Nothing transcendental was revealed to me. I didn't feel any expanded consciousness or any less rage than I already did. I'd sooner eat broken glass than try any psychedelic ever again.

But sure, I think kicking of a thread on this might be good idea. As long as we get to hear to both sides of the story.

 

[Walker]

I moved this thread here to discuss this as a therapeutic treatment. This discussion can be had here as a discussion for therapy for mental and emotional disturbance but not as a "storytelling" thread and all parts as such have to be removed according to the SF rules.

 

[Walker]

@Walker, you're an admin right? Psychedelics are honestly one of my all time favorite topics but I wasn't sure if that was "okay" on here.

As noted above, I've created this thread here but we need to tread carefully as to keep it strictly in line with a therapeutic approach to treatment.

 

[Walker]

That's a pretty heavy reaction you explain to drugs in general @Dark111 Any idea why that makes you feel so terrible?

 

[Dark111]

That's a pretty heavy reaction you explain to drugs in general @Dark111 Any idea why that makes you feel so terrible?

I have no problem with mood-altering drugs, I have quite a fondness for those, but you can set all mind-altering drugs on fire.

Mind-altering drugs disrupts our brains natural ability to process information. You know that information we need in order to make decisions affecting our survival and well-being? Yeah that gets screwed. In fact, the effects of hallucinogens like LSD, psilocybin and DMT can be described as drug-induced psychosis—distortion or disorganization of a person’s capacity to recognize reality, think rationally, or communicate with others.

When they studied brain scans of individuals high LSD, it showed that the chemical allows parts of the cortex to become flooded with signals that are normally filtered out to prevent information overload. The drug also allowed more information to flow from the thalamus, which is a kind of neural gatekeeper, while stemming the flow of information to another part known as the temporal cortex. This disruption in communication may explain some of the wacked-out effects users of psychedelics report, feelings of bliss and being at one with the universe to hallucinations and what scientists refer to as “ego dissolution”, where one’s sense of self disintegrates.

The way I see it the brain processes information the way it does for a reason and interfering with that does not equal spiritual oneness with the universe. It means you're brain has been fucked with and you clearly cannot trust the output from a malfunctioning brain. And no chemical is going to "dissolve" my ego, the fact that it tried probably explains why I got so irritated and angry when I tried that stuff.

 

[dandelion s]

one of the emerging new treatments for depression

a friend here was just telling me about a psychedelic and it did sound very interesting and tempting but over the past several days i’ve given that a lot of thought and fears about it and apparent bad physical experiences now make me very reluctant. this particular one may also not be legal but not really knowing much about this subject i don’t really know. then just yesterday my therapist brought ketamine infusion to my attention. i think this might be in the same category also. but i still have to read more about it.

but when it comes to psychedelics...

when it comes to psychedelics, you're in for a trip to hell. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this.

what stands out most to me and that was from a long time ago but still is very present in my mind, my neighbor was urged into trying LSD by his sister for whom it was “wonderful”. he had a bad trip. became very psychotic for the remainder of his life. appeared to pose a threat to women (such as my sister) during times when he was not being hospitalized. this put fear into everyone around. but worst sadly was that just through talking with him many times (he was a friend afterall) and things his other sister relayed to me, he suffered greatly and ultimately died a very troubled person.

i do not mean to suggest that an LSD trip in the attic during the 1970s is anything similar to what is being discussed in this thread, and it was also understood that anything that he went through then must have been coming from something already existing in his mind before the “trip”, but it effected me deeply and even vividly (that’s another story) so that anything of the sort to me seems potentially dangerous and for me most likely needs to be avoided. it may really be a trip to hell! i still need to find out what the safeguards are - if any and i’d still be leaning very strongly toward not trying anything psychedelic.

 

[Aurelia]

It means you're brain has been fucked with and you clearly cannot trust the output from a malfunctioning brain.

You can barely even trust the output from a "functioning" brain, let alone a malfunctioning one. So I fully agree here about psychedelics being fucked, overrated, and not worth it. The only thing I've done that comes close to being psychedelic is DXM, but all it really was, was a bad 24 hour fucking trip.

 

[Dark111]

a friend here was just telling me about a psychedelic and it did sound very interesting and tempting but over the past several days i’ve given that a lot of thought and fears about it and apparent bad physical experiences now make me very reluctant. this particular one may also not be legal but not really knowing much about this subject i don’t really know. then just yesterday my therapist brought ketamine infusion to my attention. i think this might be in the same category also. but i still have to read more about it.

but when it comes to psychedelics...


what stands out most to me and that was from a long time ago but still is very present in my mind, my neighbor was urged into trying LSD by his sister for whom it was “wonderful”. he had a bad trip. became very psychotic for the remainder of his life. appeared to pose a threat to women (such as my sister) during times when he was not being hospitalized. this put fear into everyone around. but worst sadly was that just through talking with him many times (he was a friend afterall) and things his other sister relayed to me, he suffered greatly and ultimately died a very troubled person.

i do not mean to suggest that an LSD trip in the attic during the 1970s is anything similar to what is being discussed in this thread, and it was also understood that anything that he went through then must have been coming from something already existing in his mind before the “trip”, but it effected me deeply and even vividly (that’s another story) so that anything of the sort to me seems potentially dangerous and for me most likely needs to be avoided. it may really be a trip to hell! i still need to find out what the safeguards are - if any and i’d still be leaning very strongly toward not trying anything psychedelic.

I'm with you on that one, extraterrestrialone. I'm no neuroscientist but giving something like that to someone with an already troubled mind just doesn't make sense to me. Personally, I believe whether you've got some mental illness or you're just some basic normie, there needs to be some pre-existing vital component, I'm not sure what exactly, but some stable, well-formed part of the psyche, that's built into the persons very psychological makeup so they're not plunged into Dante's Inferno.

I notice this "ego dissolution" and "self-disintegration" gets mentioned lot when I read anything about psychedelics. Was Carl Jung onto something when he said:

"The first half of life is devoted to forming a healthy ego, the second half is going inward and letting of it"

Maybe bad trippers missed out on that first part and some psychedelic is forcing them down a path not meant for them.

 

[Dark111]

You can barely even trust the output from a "functioning" brain, let alone a malfunctioning one. So I fully agree here about psychedelics being fucked, overrated, and not worth it. The only thing I've done that comes close to being psychedelic is DXM, but all it really was, was a bad 24 hour fucking trip.

I trust the output from my functioning brain. My functioning brain tells me I'm holding a mug of Earl Grey tea and admiring my Dame De Cour roses through the window. Now if my tea were laced with magic mushrooms I imagine those roses would look very different. But nice we agree on the sheer fuckery that psychedelics are.

 

[Aurelia]

I trust the output from my functioning brain. My functioning brain tells me I'm holding a mug of Earl Grey tea and admiring my Dame De Cour roses through the window. Now if my tea were laced with magic mushrooms I imagine those roses would look very different. But nice we agree on the sheer fuckery that psychedelics are.

I wasn't saying it "matter-of-factly" just to say it or as a joke of some kind. I meant that you literally can't trust a normally-functioning brain at times. For example, consider optical illusions, and the ways in which we perceive patterns, colors, and so on. Sometimes our brain looks for things that simply aren't there, resulting in faulty perception.