Major problem with this site

Discussion in 'Rants, Musings and Ideas' started by Quezi, Mar 23, 2007.

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  1. Quezi

    Quezi Member

    Not everyone with suicidal tendancies is always gloomy and fragile.

    Some of us have a dark, even pitch black sense of humour about it.

    Some days we feel upbeat, chipper and playful - this doesn't mean we're 'trolls'.


    There are some on this site who are bedridden, terminally ill, severely handicapped who understandably feel suicidal; while SOME of the relatively more fortunate here, simply haven't come out of their introverted shells.

    'Tough Love' works wonders for such people in my first hand experience, but sadly, whenever I try it in the chat room (and actually start getting through to them) I'm warned, censored, kicked or threatened with banning!

    Molly Coddling isn't the uniform answer for all (or maybe any) of the desperados on SF, so....

    ...FFS.....loosen up.


    Somebody was actually chastised the other day for typing 'die die die die' in the chatroom for Christ's sake.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2007
  2. ~PinkElephants~

    ~PinkElephants~ Senior member

    outright calling someone a nasty name isn't tough love, it's rude especially when you don't know the person's circumstances in life. Outright saying you were trying to get in on the private joke doesn't excuse what was said. I'm sorry you feel that some people need to lighten up but I feel what was said was wrong and to be honest I didnt take it so well. Thanks though.
     
  3. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    Although I admire your attempts in helping people, in which I agree at most times is much more effective than wrapping people up in cotton wool, it just doesn't seem to work well over chat, instant messenger services, forums, etc.

    To be honest though, remember to prioritize yourself first over people on here. I know to some people out there that sounds kinda cruel or they may disagree with me, but your first priority should be yourself.

    You do have a bloody good point though, and I wholeheartedly agree. However how this forum is run is not my place to say.
     
  4. Quezi

    Quezi Member

    WhatLiesBeneath79,

    This thread is not in reference to that farcical misunderstanding.
    Feel free to PM me if you wish to discuss it further.
     
  5. RainbowChaser

    RainbowChaser Well-Known Member

    Telling someone you want a picture of them to "jerk off" to isn't tough love, nor is calling someone a b*tch. These are just two of the things I can mention you've done on that chat room, one to me and one to a friend of mine. These aren't things that I'll just 'loosen up' about...
     
  6. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    You were warned Quezi, I told you you would be silenced, if you continued. You didn't continue. You weren't silenced.

    Bullying is not a funny thing, regardless whether you think it is or not.
    It ruins lives.

    And what you called WLB79 was an insult, whether you think it was or not. You were warned for that.

    I am sorry if you don't think I am moderating the chatroom correctly - if you have a problem with me, please speak to an administrator about it.

    And 'Tough Love' may work for some, but not, in my experience for the majority. I'm meant to protect the whole chatroom, and if that doesn't work for the majority, then I am not prepared to let some members have it their way, just because they feel they dont like the rules of this forum.

    It can be triggering, and that is what the staff are meant to remove, or at least help protect members from.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2007
  7. Jawa

    Jawa Guest

    Abacus21: shouldn't this thread be in the Let is all out... forum?
     
  8. Guy Incognito XI

    Guy Incognito XI Well-Known Member




    I thought I was going to agree with this post but I don't. You want the moderators to loosen up so that you or anyone else can scream die, die, die bitch to strangers who come here for help. Absolutely not. Those comments are not constructive and they border on someone taking pleasure out of being nasty.

    Speaking for myself what I didn't understand when I first arrived in this forum was that the forum is directed towards helping people deal with their problems and prevent suicide. I respect the work done by the moderators and other contributors but my reservation, to be honest (if I can be) is that some of the people who post such unhappy threads really should commit suicide.

    I read the stories of people who are desperately unhappy. They say they fight on and fight on and everyday they consider suicide. Yet the only advice they receive (or which the moderator will allow to be posted) is the old cliches about how 'things will get better' or 'lots of people care'. I'm sorry, however well intentioned this advice is, the person has heard it a million times before and acted upon, but their life has not changed.

    The most constructive advice is sometimes to say commit suicide. Why is that so wrong?

    If someone is playing a computer game, and he finds the game very miserable and painful to play. Imagine he says to me (Guy) I really want to quit this game and go to sleep. I say to him no you sit and play the game. Keep playing. The person does try and try and struggles on. But he says to me again please Guy I just want to end this game. Now what kind of friend would I be to say mate I don't care how much you want to end this, you play on, damn it!. Instead, I would say my friend you have tried haven't you, and you really just want to end this. Well friend then end the game, turn off the computer and go to sleep. Go to sleep and rest in peace.

    Now I am not encouraging suicide at all. I believe most of the people in this forum can be helped, but I would just like to say that I think our responses to posts are too restricted by moderators and as a consequence only cliches result which are not really helpful for people who have heard it all before.
     
  9. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    I appreciate your point Guy, but equally, there comes a line where one has to decide whether to allow potentially pro-suicide posts on the forum, when the forum is pro-life, and pro-suicide forums are illegal.

    I'd much rather moderate the posts, erring on the side of caution, than not do so, and possibly have to live with the guilt that I maybe caused someone's death by not pressing the edit button.
     
  10. Nakur

    Nakur Guest

    I entirely agree with Abacus21 here, it's alot better to be safe then sorry. And I do think most people come here to get help, not to hear things that might make them want to suicide even more.
     
  11. Guy Incognito XI

    Guy Incognito XI Well-Known Member



    I'm heartened that you allowed the post, and I think on the whole you are right. I wanted to put foward my view in this general section, but I think it would be a bad idea to address somebody's problem (even where they say Let me die, for instance) by answering yeh you should commit suicide.

    Many of the people who do post are fuelled with emotion and pain, and seem very unstable. They can (I think) be helped and you guys do a good job. I think maybe myself and the original thread starter have reached the point of no return. I accept suicide as if it was a booked holiday. I am emotionless to it. I think if I had the emotion and raw pain of most people here I would want to here the nice and helpful advice you give.
     
  12. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    I believe the original thread starter was airing his feelings over various incidents that had happened in the chatroom earlier tonight; You, however, should give yourself time to consider if this is the right option for you. I believe it isn't.

    I hope you reconsider.

    I'm here if you need to talk.
     
  13. ybt

    ybt Guest

    first, i'm glad this topic isn't locked. topics should be locked i agree when insults keep flying even after warning, but this is just a symposium thread.

    i believe the original poster is upset about us "not facing problems", and instead having "edit - offensive" etc.

    but anyway, it must be understood that a lot of people here could be tipped over the edge by an ill remark. the retort is obviously "well then stop fucking around and help yourselves!" - we're trying. no, we're not strong people. well, i am, but a lot aren't. or they're caught in situations they can't get themselves out of. as abacus said, it's better to edit than to risk it
     
  14. Malcontent

    Malcontent Staff Alumni

    I was going to reply to this thread last night, but to be honest I would've insulted you Quezi, because you insulted one of my best friends and that hurt me.

    Tough love does sometimes work, I actually agree with you there. I use tough love on some of my friends. But the point is I know them, so I know what not to say. And they know I care about them even if I might say something a bit cruel. I don't believe you can use tough love on people who you don't know, because you just end up with the tough part without the love. Do you get me?

    Are you trying to give people tough love because that's how you actually want people to treat you? If so, I can do that for you. Don't think that I don't like you, I'm just frustrated by the fact that you obviously have a brain, you're just not using it. Quit judging people before you even know them, and to be perfectly blunt, get over yourself and see someone else's point of view. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I am not meaning to insult you here I hope you understand that.
     
  15. Quezi

    Quezi Member

    :rolleyes:

    Exactly what I'm talking about.
    This culture of victimization. Where one fragile person encourages another to get the wrong end of the stick, then they bond by attacking the "bully" *boo hiss* together.

    Fucking ridiculous.


    Likewise.

    No, that was just the final straw.

    It was a good ice-breaker that got you to vent pent up anger and consider the enticing signals (which I've previously listed) you were naively broadcasting.
    The fact that you've returned yet again to confront me, is a positive healing step.

    Many of the things I say to people in the chatroom lobby (which should be a place to kick back, unwind and let our hair down) are challenges - never, ever, malicious.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2007
  16. Malcontent

    Malcontent Staff Alumni

    Quezi I am not attacking you, I clearly stated that I left replying to this till today so I wouldn't attack you. I'm sorry that I want to back my friend up, I thought that was just human nature.

    I do see your point of view, as I told you the other day I used to be a lot like you. Although I doubt you believe that it's the truth, and I would like to help you, Not help you become just like me, but to get you through whatever has brought you here. I'm not defending anyone but you right now. I wont lie and say you didn't piss me off last night, cos you did, but I'm still willing to try to help.

    Please try to get to know people here, then maybe you'll find what you're seeking. But right now you're trying to jump in with both feet and people feel threatened by that.
     
  17. worlds edge

    worlds edge Well-Known Member

    I agree with the above. If nothing else, allowing such behavior will do nothing but create non-stop flamewars, and likely drive away most members.

    I feel very much the same way. But it is one thing to think this in theory and quite another to allow posts like "Oh, okay, off with you then. You're right, things won't get better for you. You'd better head off exit stage left." A post like that would doubtless be triggering as hell for a lot of members. Plus, when all you're dealing with is disembodied words on a computer screen who can say for sure? I've kind of concluded that the only way to run a forum like this is to do it the way it is done here. I'm not thrilled about it, but all the alternatives I see would be worse.

    Very true. I must admit I find this irritating as hell. But I have nothing better to offer most of the time.

    I think your statement is probably right, but I don't think an internet forum is an appropriate place to say it. We just don't know each other well enough to say for sure. Heck, someone who wants to commit suicide should arrive at that decision by themselves, anyway.

    I don't think your analogy works. There's nothing saying someone couldn't drop the game and go read a book, watch television, go for a walk, etc. Heck, they could even return to the video game when they're in a better frame of mind, perhaps they'd enjoy it more at another time. Suicide would not only knock out the game, it would knock out all else.

    Aside from saying that certain people should be given a green light for suicide, what are you not saying now that you'd say if you could? Just curious. I agree with you about the cliche business, I just never seem to know what to say beyond them.
     
  18. Quezi

    Quezi Member

    I think this^ topic is better suited for PM, but as so many are bringing it up - let's get to the bottom of it:


    Everytime we're in the chatroom, I notice you(?) publicly greet WLB with 'sup b*tch' or something VERY similar ('bitch' is definately used, albeit with asterixes).

    Obviously a term of endearment/banter/private joke etc.

    She always takes it with good humour.

    I've started chatting with her quite a bit recently, and she makes lots of little snipes at my expense - which I don't mind at all. She's only teasing.

    Last night, she left chat for a while, and on her return I greeted her (jokingly) with 'the bitch is back' (an alliterated line taken from either the movie Alien3's trailor or Joan Collins' 2nd autobiography).

    To my horror, she virtually burst into tears, then half a dozen chatters instantly turned on me.

    After I'd very skillfully managed to explain myself whilst skating on dangerously thin ice, and thankfully had my explanation corroborated by yourself (a 'mod'); in an act of seemingly breathtaking dishonesty, you quickly buckled under popular pressure to punish me - with a nasty little PM threatening to ban me if I hurt the feelings of anyone else!

    The PM ended with a cowardly 'this is not up for discussion',
    'Malcontent has now closed his PM window' (paraphrased) i.e. you are now on ignore by this user.

    For shame.


    Btw the chatter who typed 'die die die die' was mid-grumbling about his/her life; just thinking aloud. They wern't telling anyone to die (and obviously) nor am I calling for such behaviour to be allowed. oO(Why don't people make an effort to follow the logic of my posts before making erroneous accusations/joining the condemnation of the reactionaries?)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2007
  19. Malcontent

    Malcontent Staff Alumni

    Private joke Quezi, private joke. If you took the time to get to know WLB you'd understand why that upset her so much. You say to your horror, but did you once say sorry to her? That's all it would have taken. "sorry, I made a mistake".

    I did not "buckle under popular pressure", if you took the time to get to know me you would realise that I don't do things like that. I upheld the rules of this site, and to be perfectly blunt I'm sick of seeing you upset people. Telling you the matter was not up for discussion may have been cowardly but I believe it was a better option than the insults I would have slung at you otherwise. And I did not put you on ignore.

    You say for shame, I'm sorry to disappoint you but I feel no shame for my actions.
     
  20. Quezi

    Quezi Member

    'Private joke' in a 'public' chatroom. Perhaps best to limit them to PM or a passwoord protected room. You can't blame me for not knowing her life story; it's not common knowledge.

    That's exactly what I'm trying to do if you'd kindly get off my case.

    No, and why on Earth should I? I made no 'mistake', she misunderstood; if anyone deserves an apology it's me, but I'm not too fussed.

    That's something you need to work on (esp. as a Mod). The admission's commendable.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 24, 2007
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