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Male Suicide

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#21
The term itself only exposes how phallo-centric our thinking bout the subject has become! What about womental health?!
Do people with common sense not realize that 'mental health' is a generic term that of course includes both men and women? Perhaps that's the way to go but personally, I really just don't understand this 'woke' obsession with words. Phallocentric doesn't even enter my mind when I hear or read the term mental health. Does that mean there's something wrong with me?
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#22
The sadness in it all is healthcare is a moneymaking operation. That's when folks go into treatment. It takes the people like us educate people. Sounds good in theory. I'd be willing to volunteer. Put my money where my mouth is
I agree completely, particularly if you live in a country without universal healthcare. I often watch a channel called 'Invisible People' where a guy goes around different states in the US interviewing homeless people and how they ended up in that situation. I've watched a lot of his interviews already and the vast majority are homeless because either they or a family member got sick and it bankrupted them. Sure I remember reading just earlier this year how a person treated for covid-19 in Seattle was slapped with a 181-page bill for $1.1 million. It is indeed truly scandalous and the folks benefitting from this sleep very soundly at night too. And yes Lane, we can certainly do what we can by educating where we can.
 
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Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#23
The self help of suicidal thoughts that you speak of I heard about from a therapist. I think she was just trying to make me feel better, ha. But it does make sense. Her thought was that when you contemplate it so thoroughly and then dont go through with it, it's an accomplishment, something to that effect.

As for making it tabu. I think you wrote that its not a talked about topic. Its good that @Dark111 brings it to light (play on words 😁). I see posts on Facebook for walks on suicide prevention and I really want to do them. I honestly feel like one of my sons is at risk. I dont want this to be about me. Hes so angry and like me, he may have inherited the gene. He doesn't talk about feelings, prime candidate right there. Life is not perfect for those with the imperfect families. Sorry my thoughts get scattered. I think this is an important topic.
This is about all of us, that includes you. If you're worried about your son, and it sounds like you have a valid reason to be, this is the place to share it. How old is he, if do you mind me asking? And has he always expressed himself the way he does now?
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#24
Here again I have to be cautious in my answer so as to not draw my own experience into the discussion.

I hope I did not sound like I was criticising that it should be done but that regardless of it's special qualities, touching the issue of male suicide should be done in conjunction with female suicide. And also that for every requirement placed on a man, as I see it at least, the requirement placed on a woman is a counterpart and should be addressed in conjunction.

If a man is not allowed to cry for example, and a woman expected to cry, reasoning (if reason enters/entered into it at all) behind how this came to be must have significant correlations. I'm wondering right at this moment if a woman crying might have been some kind of way to achieve closeness to a child and then simply assumed would not work if a woman were to enter into a "man's role" and pertaining to men, everyone believes death to be a sad thing but in an ancient battle, it would most likely be counter productive if the soldier in battle began to cry on the battlefield.

Nowadays, for both of these situations we don't do that anymore but the behaviors remain even when old boundaries are crossed or at least offered as a coming change. A man may still try to not cry even if a cry might lead to a better solution.

Open discussion presenting a woman's point of view might prove to be enlightening. There are other sides to this too as to the female experience where changes might be helpful per male experience. I just think both should be approached together since they involve the same "parts" of the machinery.
I do hear your what you're saying extraterrestrialone and your feedback is always thoughtful and appreciated.

Suicide is still the single biggest killer of men under the age of 45 and I wanted to take a closer at this.
But my plan was to create a separate thread on women as I'm still gathering what information is most reliable and then do a comparison on what support structures are in place and how, if at all, they could be improved, expanded or even created from scratch. And yes, there are indeed a lot of evolutionary traits that are still hard-wired into us to this very day. Women are hypergamous and their disgust at what they believe is a 'weak' man is just one of those very traits. Look up about why a woman's rejection of men they deem 'unattractive' is so brutal, that's another one. It's not the man's behavior the woman is so put off by, it's how unattractive the man who's doing it is.

Of course, people are invited to share their own thoughts, experiences or any information pertaining women's suicide in this thread here. Maye you can set the ball rolling?
 

Gonz

sick and tired of being sick and tired
#25
Do people with common sense not realize that 'mental health' is a generic term that of course includes both men and women? Perhaps that's the way to go but personally, I really just don't understand this 'woke' obsession with words. Phallocentric doesn't even enter my mind when I hear or read the term mental health. Does that mean there's something wrong with me?
I was, uh, kidding.
 

extraterrestrialone

hi, guess who... its me...
SF Supporter
#26
walks on suicide prevention
i have a certain bitterness about suicide prevention walks. 2 or so years ago when my insurance changed and i lost my help and was without a therapist for 8 months i went to one place that boasted about their suicide prevention candle light walks - one of which had just been held - right near where i worked at the time. i felt that this would be the right place to go to for help. the thing is that after the hourlong intake they said that they could not help me. what? i’m too suicidal to be helped? or... i guess i’m suicidal to others only by convenience relating to their scope of things. ask and i can explain further.

but i also feel that although suicide prevention walks are well intentioned, they strengthen stigma and may really be making things worse for those who suffer. i don’t know... i may just be totally out of the spectrum of sentiment pertaining to people’s issues and how to handle suicide awareness in order to help those who suffer with suicidality.

i’ve been speaking about this for easily as many years+ as i’ve been here on SF, and to my therapists, and to my doctors, and to others and have hardly even gotten an “mmm hmm, interesting!” out of anyone. but i stand by this belief and it makes perfect sense to me. i suspect that since i’m a patient rather than a doctor, no one is ok with simply giving my sentiment/beliefs credit.

its not like i think they’re specifically ignoring me. its just that its natural to assume that if a person (such as myself) has such issues, then what comes out of that person’s mouth might be questionable. also even though most doctors insist that i am suicidal, i deny it. i can explain this further too. but who is to say who is right? its always easy for people to rule me out in this case. but consider my above first paragraph. that clinic was specifically there to help those who are suicidal until they encountered me - and it is not clear why. but the issues raised in this thread most definitely apply to me to a significant degree. i’m curious if there is an answer.
 

extraterrestrialone

hi, guess who... its me...
SF Supporter
#27
The term itself only exposes how phallo-centric our thinking bout the subject has become! What about womental health?!
i’ve created two words because i think they move away from the known accepted and stigma tainted terminology and are even a touch humorous which might be a good thing. but it also might be taken as totally without merit. who knows? i would like to hear a definition of pahllo-centric - kidding or no! i don’t want to jump to any conclusions. as for my words, i mentioned one several times in the past - cognicumbrance. and the other i’ve used more recently, (maybe not here) is discombobulance. and i almost hate to say it but i’m not kidding about these!
 

BarryW

SF Supporter
#30
I liked the talk if for no other reason than it is comforting to see people in public talking about suicide. While she was talking about the parallels to sex education, I started wondering about what it would be like if there were also mandatory suicide education. Right now the topic is probably brought up in very few areas like philosophy, pschology, psychiatry, and maybe a footnote in biology or english literature. It's not enough.

I feel like it was a missed opportunity when she didn't point out that we should help make the world into a place where an audience wouldn't need to close its eyes to feel comfortable raising their hands about having had suicidal thoughts.
 

Lane

SF Supporter
#31
i have a certain bitterness about suicide prevention walks. 2 or so years ago when my insurance changed and i lost my help and was without a therapist for 8 months i went to one place that boasted about their suicide prevention candle light walks - one of which had just been held - right near where i worked at the time. i felt that this would be the right place to go to for help. the thing is that after the hourlong intake they said that they could not help me. what? i’m too suicidal to be helped? or... i guess i’m suicidal to others only by convenience relating to their scope of things. ask and i can explain further.

but i also feel that although suicide prevention walks are well intentioned, they strengthen stigma and may really be making things worse for those who suffer. i don’t know... i may just be totally out of the spectrum of sentiment pertaining to people’s issues and how to handle suicide awareness in order to help those who suffer with suicidality.

i’ve been speaking about this for easily as many years+ as i’ve been here on SF, and to my therapists, and to my doctors, and to others and have hardly even gotten an “mmm hmm, interesting!” out of anyone. but i stand by this belief and it makes perfect sense to me. i suspect that since i’m a patient rather than a doctor, no one is ok with simply giving my sentiment/beliefs credit.

its not like i think they’re specifically ignoring me. its just that its natural to assume that if a person (such as myself) has such issues, then what comes out of that person’s mouth might be questionable. also even though most doctors insist that i am suicidal, i deny it. i can explain this further too. but who is to say who is right? its always easy for people to rule me out in this case. but consider my above first paragraph. that clinic was specifically there to help those who are suicidal until they encountered me - and it is not clear why. but the issues raised in this thread most definitely apply to me to a significant degree. i’m curious if there is an answer.
Your post made me think of advice I received to not sit silently or quietly and to question your situation regarding your healthcare. I get what you're saying about them not validating you because you're the patient and they, the "professionals" have the answers.

What they did about the walk was misleading, a farse. I remember when you lost the insurance. You know, even in the hospitals, they are about making money. When I was there they would keep those longer with insurance that pay.

Maybe a message from suicide survivors would get people's attention. I dont know. It's such a sad topic and maybe a tabu in families. Well, my train of thought has reached its limit.
 

Lane

SF Supporter
#32
I agree completely, particularly if you live in a country without universal healthcare. I often watch a channel called 'Invisible People' where a guy goes around different states in the US interviewing homeless people and how they ended up in that situation. I've watched a lot of his interviews already and the vast majority are homeless because either they or a family member got sick and it bankrupted them. Sure I remember reading just earlier this year how a person treated for covid-19 in Seattle was slapped with a 181-page bill for $1.1 million. It is indeed truly scandalous and the folks benefitting from this sleep very soundly at night too. And yes Lane, we can certainly do what we can by educating where we can.
Well this made me think, there are definately people making money off the pandemic.
I read the letters and log the cases of our customers that have lost jobs due to Covid. It's sad, but on the bright side our state has extended the low cost healthcare to low income people.
 

Lane

SF Supporter
#33
This is about all of us, that includes you. If you're worried about your son, and it sounds like you have a valid reason to be, this is the place to share it. How old is he, if do you mind me asking? And has he always expressed himself the way he does now?
I don't mind at all. I always talk about my estranged daughter when she doesn't deserve it. Thanks for asking @Dark111. He's 25. He's usually pretty rude to me and I sometimes say something and other times ignore it. I wonder if he's depressed. If I ask him anything personal he'll usually snap at me. He also made reference to being gay once and that's ok with me. I'd be happy as long as he's happy. He's artistic. He doesn't have friends. My niece saw him for the first time in many years, she loved him as a baby and couldn't believe how he treated me and and off his social skills were. She said maybe autism spectrum. I dont know. I have 2 sons and they come over once a week for dinner. I've been making it every other lately, I'm tired from working and the attitude of him and younger daughter when they're together. Omg, are you sorry you asked now?
 

Dante

SF Supporter
#34
I just watched the video, and I dont see her attitude becoming common, just the idea of someone asking me "How are you" and me giving an honest answer... this guy at work, if I dont say "Ok" he complains that you are supposed to answer "Ok" when someone asks you how you are. Nice thought, but I dont see her ideas coming to be for a long time.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#35
I don't mind at all. I always talk about my estranged daughter when she doesn't deserve it. Thanks for asking @Dark111. He's 25. He's usually pretty rude to me and I sometimes say something and other times ignore it. I wonder if he's depressed. If I ask him anything personal he'll usually snap at me. He also made reference to being gay once and that's ok with me. I'd be happy as long as he's happy. He's artistic. He doesn't have friends. My niece saw him for the first time in many years, she loved him as a baby and couldn't believe how he treated me and and off his social skills were. She said maybe autism spectrum. I dont know. I have 2 sons and they come over once a week for dinner. I've been making it every other lately, I'm tired from working and the attitude of him and younger daughter when they're together. Omg, are you sorry you asked now?
I imagine it starts to really wear you down when you're making a genuine effort to connect with someone, particularly a loved one, and you're met with indifference & hostility. Is he one of the sons that comes over for dinner or does he still live at home with you?

To go back to your point about believing he is at risk, you mentioned he's angry all the time and doesn't open up to you about how his feelings. Do you know if he behaves similarly with other people? Have you witnessed other behavior that gives you cause for concern? I'm not at all trying to minimise your concerns here, he's your son and you just want the best for him but I recall when I was younger I had a very antagonistic relationship with my father for a quite a few years. We just didn't see eye to eye on anything. He was the last person I would want to talk to about anything but it was just down to the dynamics of our particular relationship. I related differently to different people. Maybe you've already considered this and there's more going on there.
 

Dark111

Scholar's Mate
SF Supporter
#36
I just watched the video, and I dont see her attitude becoming common, just the idea of someone asking me "How are you" and me giving an honest answer... this guy at work, if I dont say "Ok" he complains that you are supposed to answer "Ok" when someone asks you how you are. Nice thought, but I dont see her ideas coming to be for a long time.
No argument there, in work we're all ok, never better, happy to just be there. That old chestnut "there's a time and place" for expressing certain thoughts and/or feelings will most likely be with us until the end of time. And we might just have to find a way to work with that. Finding workable solutions to the plagues of the human condition are more often than not some real head-scratchers and I can understand what the presenter suggests seems quite pollyannaish, but just acknowledging that there is a problem, and that we need to have open and honest conversations about it, counts for a promising start in my books.
 

Lane

SF Supporter
#40
I imagine it starts to really wear you down when you're making a genuine effort to connect with someone, particularly a loved one, and you're met with indifference & hostility. Is he one of the sons that comes over for dinner or does he still live at home with you?

To go back to your point about believing he is at risk, you mentioned he's angry all the time and doesn't open up to you about how his feelings. Do you know if he behaves similarly with other people? Have you witnessed other behavior that gives you cause for concern? I'm not at all trying to minimise your concerns here, he's your son and you just want the best for him but I recall when I was younger I had a very antagonistic relationship with my father for a quite a few years. We just didn't see eye to eye on anything. He was the last person I would want to talk to about anything but it was just down to the dynamics of our particular relationship. I related differently to different people. Maybe you've already considered this and there's more going on there.
Both of my sons come over. They live with their father ages 21 and 25. His house is bigger. Anyway, I think he tries to he funny or snarky and misses the mark. Or maybe hes still mad at me. I've lived my life unconventionalally but still have always been right beside him. He's always been an angry bird (sorry corny). I think he may also be a late bloomer. Thanks for caring, I know this isnt about me but we were talking about male suicide. He actually gets annoyed when I try to talk about anything personal. I guess I just have to keep trying!

Your story about your father helps. Is your father still alive? I think if I suggested counseling he'd balk. The good news is, and talking with you here just reminded me, he did say the last time we were together that he wishes that he took more classes he enjoyed in high school. But it's kinda sad to have regrets already at 25. If you as a son/daughter now or in the future think of a way that I can reach out to him please let me know. However, I dont think hes at risk for suicide but the thought has crossed my mind and I've expressed it to my younger daughter only because of now he isolates himself and his disposition. He's neutral others I believe.
 

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