Meaning of conciseness

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Lorax, Jun 10, 2015.

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  1. Lorax

    Lorax Well-Known Member

    So, I love learning. While not an expert, my view is conciseness rises from chemical reactions in certain areas of our brain.

    Those reactions are bred through species adaptation to beneficial traights or enviroment. Granted humans function in social groups, we abide by the dominant group members & their imposed ideals. Resulting in ideas of higher conciseness, or societal bonds.

    Yay science~
     
  2. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Um... well technically everything in life is a chemical reaction.. There's a great deal more to consciousness than just chemical reactions. You're skirting the actual essence of consciousness which is in itself more awareness of ones self, and then controlling/directing oneself in relation to its environment, situations or self.

    Essentially A.I. You described chemical programming which is sequential adaptive responses. Not self awareness/consciousness

    But that's just my opinion. I definitely do not agree with your second paragraph. What you've described is containment and those who function within it. Not those who exist beyond it. Your last paragraph reads more of following versus individuals who are in control of their own lives. That's merely one avenue that a selfaware state has developed through Humanity. Humanity is breaking away from Natural because of it's ability to harness it's environment and consistently mold and subject individuals to it's desired stimulation/creation. It's just one way.

    As far as the meaning of consciousness? Well, there's the great beyond, so who knows(que god people). More internally and subjective to the relative environment, is survival and procreation at it's more basic state. Further connections are subject to the entity and it's connection to a particular environment or other entity(s). It's core source and development have a striking dictation on a beings conscious development. Though Consciousness can directly resist that core coding and veer off, hence the divergence from natural cycle evolution that moves with the environment, to something that controls itself and it's environment .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2015
  3. What

    What Active Member

    I tripped balls on shrooms once, lasted about 8 hours total, and it left me with the conviction that there are things in life for which we have no words. These things exist but we just have no words for them. I kept losing everything. Like my memories, my name, even my thoughts and emotions separated from me, like layers peeling away. Very hard to describe it. But in the end I was still there, I was still left. I was not my name, I was not my body, I was not even my thoughts, feelings or memories. I don't know what I was. But I was still there.
     
  4. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I know all there is to know about being concise.
     
  5. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Oh Prinn :p
     
  6. Lorax

    Lorax Well-Known Member

    That's very to the point.
    :p
     
  7. Lorax

    Lorax Well-Known Member

    Not that I advocate drug use or anything. *wink* mushrooms contain an active ingredient psylibin (not spelled that way) which activates primal regions of the brain & creates new neurological pathways. It also down-regulates areas responsible for "ego"

    It basically downs your ego & rewires areas that put two-two together. Resulting in a sense of detachment from your self, and a stronger ability to piece together unrelated thoughts (creativity)

    The reason you can't explain it, is your brain was temporarily wired differently. I think there's actually research on using the ingredient for ptsd & depression. But, that's just the early steps. We can show what your brain is doing. We can't show what you're thinking. (Yet)
     
  8. Lorax

    Lorax Well-Known Member

    That's written like a college thesis. Not directed at anything specific, my point was essentially that life is "AI" as you put it. Humans are animals, regardless of our technical achievements. Chimps can use spears, otters can open clams on their gut. Even our social structures are common in nature. The big difference is self awareness.

    My argument is that, even that is a predictable neurological trigger. We know we can alter or remove our perception of "self" or "other" by introducing certain chemicals. Or like with sociopaths. They have a very different set of views towards them selves VS others. We can even show using MRIs the areas that act different.

    Sorry, I don't come here much. Just thought I'd clarify what my argument was.
     
  9. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Yep, you essentially described adapting and being molded by your environment, with specific triggers/techniques.

    Still not sure what your argument is, that's more an observation. If I prick myself, my focus(percentage wise or fully, depending on the person) shifts to the source and area emitting pain.

    Are you saying you think because you read someones conclusion in a text book or read their observations that consciousness is purely limited to stimulated external control? Consciousness at the very least is very subjective. It does have striking similarities across all that harbor it. There is no denying this that it's merged with the body it develops in. The bodies themselves are defined by their environment to a degree. Consciousness in some sense grants a degree of interaction beyond the confines of our surrounding environment(s). And some could suggest, that we only appreciate the level of consciousness that we ourselves can see and define. Limited by our own understandings.

    Your title says "Meaning". I'm really only reading observations of what you perceive consciousness. There's not a lot of difference between your position of consciousness and what alot of people think when they talk and define emotions. Even thought itself could still be substituted with consciousness what you've stated.

    I'm just saying, your wording to me sounds like you're limiting whatever consciousness is. And I never said life is AI. I was saying that your inital post is strikingly similar to what adaptive programming is theoretically. Not life/consciousness :p
     
  10. johnnysays

    johnnysays Well-Known Member

    Ok am I reading your quote right? You're talking about consciousness, right--not conciseness?

    I agree consciousness arose from evolution. That seems to be what you're saying here. Somehow some inanimate matter came together and a spark flied and from teh flames was born the beginnings of biology. And from there consciousness eventually came about.

    But why consciousness? Why did the simplest life have to become more complex to inevitably produce conscious beings such as ourselves? Is consciousness somehow embodied in all lifeforms or is it something which emerged from biology for some purpose or reason?

    Does biology have a purpose? The best I've found is this:
    https://www.quantamagazine.org/20140122-a-new-physics-theory-of-life/

    Is the purpose of consciousness tied to the above link? Maybe more intelligent creatures disperse energy more successfuly, so the universe favors their creation.

    I have my own idea about things too. Not scientific ideas. Merely subjective things. I think consciousness never really emerges, since it always exists. It's fundamentally tied to separate things which're able to react to each other and retain their own distinct character and chagne. More layers of these fundamental things means more consciousness, so there're different amoutns of consiousness. A single particle is conscious-lite, or perhaps as absent of consciousness as possible. Biological lifeforms are conscious-heavy.

    In order for consciousness to take root, a few things must pre-exist. Firstly, there has to be separate things--particles/atoms/etc. There has to be some locality to allow for separate things to be different as well. Without separate things of different character, thoughts and/or feelings and/or memories cannot be represented. In order for memories to be created, these separate things must be able to store information and change over time.There must be a means for these separate things to interact and change each other. Our universe supplies these capabilities. Without them, consciousness could not form.

    I said a particle is conscious-lite. The particle can remember its shape, its composition, its temperature, its movement and direction and will actively react to collisions or encounters with other particles or elements of the universe. Compared to a human being, a particle is virtually inanimate. A particle doesn't think abstract thoughts or plan ahead or dream. From my perspective, a particle is still conscious, but it's only consious of a few variables relating to its immediate self and environment. In total, it's almost absent of consciousness.

    I know it seems ridiculous to characterize a particle as conscious. It's ridiculous. I am ridiculous. We walk together. I am saying conciousness is as fundamental as temperature. It's what everything comes together to create.

    EDIT: We're approximately 50-something percent water. Here's a chart for what composes our body:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:201_Elements_of_the_Human_Body-01.jpg
    Interestingly, all organisms on earth are based on these six essential elements (I bolded the most widely used):
    carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur (CHNOPS).

    What's it about these elements which make them so popular? This attempts to answer:
    http://www.livescience.com/32983-what-are-ingredients-life.html

    Here's an article by Neil deGrasse Tyson:
    http://www.astrobio.net/topic/deep-space/cosmic-evolution/the-origin-of-life-on-earth/
    Regarding the top 4 essential elements to life listed above, he writes.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 7, 2015
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