Discussion in 'Therapy and Medication' started by chewbacca, May 31, 2011.

  1. chewbacca

    chewbacca Well-Known Member

    Sorry if this aint the proper section but....

    I've never been on meds, but from all the 'research' I've done (ok research might be strong a word) it seems like they do more damage then they help..... the whole thing is kinda suspicious to me.... after all its chemicals.... i just dont trust that, its done by mega companies who dont give a **** about you all they care about is your 'NEED' for meds, so they can cash in....!

    I'm just thinking aloud I guess, as I'm quite desperate and I'm thinking about seeing a doc and have something prescribed...... I just dont trust this western medicine at all though.... (im from eastern europe).... look at chinese peeps.... they heal all their ills with herbs and whatnot..... or look at the 'savage', uncultured, 'primitive' nations (amazonian indians, native Papua New Guinea poeple... or whatever!) ... they have no clue about such medication (god bless them) and they're good without it....... (maybe its because they dont have problems like the 'civilized' western people but still...)
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2011
  2. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Chinese medicine has been repeatedly proven to not work (exception: acupuncture.) And, tell me, what are the active ingredients in herbs, if not chemicals?

    And pharmaceutical companies, you know how they became wealthy? By peddling treatments that work. If they didn't work, people wouldn't buy them (and the FDA wouldn't allow them to be sold, anyhow) and the companies would go out of business.

    In some cases it is of questionable value, but you're in trouble if you don't trust Western medicine and you're being treated for depression or other serious mental illnesses. I guess exercise is comparable, but you're not likely to do it if you're depressed. Other than that, there's very little that can be done. Folk and herbal remedies just don't work.

    Many people on this forum have had their lives completely turned around by medication.
  3. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    for some conditions, medication is a necessity
    like insulin is necessary for diabetes.
    i'm bipolar. i require mood stabilizers and an anti psychotic
    i wouldn't be alive without them...
    sure it's big business but what isn't these days
  4. chewbacca

    chewbacca Well-Known Member

    can you normally function?... this genuine curiousity but why do you need them?
  5. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    without the meds i swing between mania and severe depression.
    the mania is not good (uncontrolled spending, breaking the law, promiscuity, hallucinations) and the depressions are severe (several suicide attempts, many hospitalizations). i was untreated for a long time and my life was one big train wreck. much more stable on medication.
  6. chewbacca

    chewbacca Well-Known Member

    can you, like go to work and stuff? its been years since i was able to do that and even then it sucked
  7. starryeyed

    starryeyed Well-Known Member

    This is interesting.i was psychotic.i went on meds.i was able to live a normal lfe.
    I went back to work very off them now but couldnt have got better without meds.
  8. chewbacca

    chewbacca Well-Known Member

    this is something that no one ever tells me, but, how do you actually feel when you are on them? I'm an artist and musician and somehow depression kind of helps me come up with 'ideas'.... and I'm afriad I would lose the passion for music if I was on meds.... do they make me forget about all the morbid and vile things I have engraved in my mind? will they allow to walk down the street without fear of meeting these monkeys... I mean... poeple?
  9. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    i'm not working right now because i also have a diagnosis of ptsd from childhood trauma. i'm dealing with that with twice a week therapy and am on the waitlist for a 4 month daily intensive program. once i finish teh intensive program i plan to go back to work.

    as for creativity, that's such an interesting question. i was also afraid meds would interfere with my creativity (i'm a photographer). thing is, without meds i made such a mess of my life that i wasn't getting much done, i was just running around putting out fires. i am still in touch with my pain, which is the source of much of my art, i just don't want to die so much, if that makes sense.

    if your life feels out of control i always suggest trying medication, or therapy, or both. it didn't "numb" me out or anything, just took away the worst of the suicidal feelings. i'm still pretty fucked up. but more in control of my disorder, rather than it being in control of me.
  10. starryeyed

    starryeyed Well-Known Member

    I studied art and am a writer.i couldnt create on meds.
    I was goin round like a zombie.someone in work even said it tome
    I was protected from the world.since I came off im writing way more and can hear and see things and appreciate life more.
    I was psychotic though so would have hurt myself most definately.
    Depression is dont HAVE to be on meds.
    Theres no way you could go round psychotic without meds.
    Why dont you talk to someone.we cant here.
    Theres loads of.meds you could try
  11. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Yes, medication can mess with creativity, especially in people with bipolar. I certainly feel that. I had some of my best ideas in the past month when my bipolar was completely out of control.

    I guess you have to decide: art or a chance at happiness? Except it's not such a dichotomous question, because there's still art with the chance at happiness, except maybe not as much.

    Art or a chance at happiness with somewhat reduced creativity?

    I don't know if it's the meds that cause it, they mostly sedate, I think it's actually the fact that you're cured (evidence: I was on the same meds when I had the wildly creative periods as when I wasn't, it was a matter of light intake that boosted my creativity)
  12. tweetypie

    tweetypie Antiquities Friend

    I 100 % believe in medication through experience alone and nothing will ever convince me otherwise xx
  13. eagle

    eagle Well-Known Member

    I'm another one who wouldn't be alive if it weren't for the medication i'm on! I would have killed myself long before now!
  14. HawthornePassage

    HawthornePassage Well-Known Member

    feels like a 'fake buffer'.

    and aeou, i wouldnt doubt that even if the meds didnt work much, the pharma companies would still be rich. people are so desperate for relief from this godforsaken world that theyll believe anything if it makes them feel better. remember the snake oil salesmen etc
  15. dazzle11215

    dazzle11215 Staff Alumni

    you don't believe that bipolar is a disease? or in your view is it just some reaction to the crappy society we live in.

    i couldn't disagree with you more

    what about schizophrenia?

    proven fact that people with a mental illness have different brain chemistry. it even shows up on brain scans.
  16. HawthornePassage

    HawthornePassage Well-Known Member

    i believe that mental disorders are 'pathological' (but usually justified and normal, though whose to say what's justified?) emotional reactions to the virulently toxic society and environment we live in (which also depends on micro-environments), combined with the personality features of a person which are determined partially by genetics, etc. but, those personality traits by themselves are not necessarily pathological so its not fair, though technically correct, to cite 'genetic predispositions'. at least this is the case most of the time, but even in other cases where there is a major biological factor (such as chemically induced chronic fatigue syndrome) the actual triggers must be addressed rather than ignored. mental illnesses are also often incredibly complex, elaborate, and nuanced and often work in bizarre 'systems' that reach deep into the subconscious and thus many cannot be explained simply by 'common sense' or 'cause and effect'. I've seen this in myself and others...thought 'it must be biologically caused because there is no obvious reason'. As an example of genetic markers, a creative and abstract person might be more prone to depression, schizophrenia etc under certain circumstances and might show a 'genetic marker' for those attributes, but nobody would say that being abstract is a disease. That person would certainly not mesh well with the closed minded, illogical, and stifling society we live in.

    i wouldnt call 'mental illnesses' real diseases in a literal medical sense, but certainly very problematic and in many cases just as crippling or more crippling than physical diseases. the 'mental illness is a real disease' mantra is often a reaction to the crowd which underplays the horrible pain these emotional issues cause people, its just not a scientifically correct thing to say.

    the brain is a chemical engine; every emotion and mental attribute you have is reflected in some chemical way. if you have massive psychological problems, its going to manifest itself as some kind of chemical distortion in terms of physical brain attributes. im sure my brain is horribly distorted compared to an 'average' person in both good and bad ways, but that doesn't mean that my problems were caused by that distortion. though, the brain distortions are part of our emotional 'permanence' and make it hard for us to change things that have been heavily drilled into our conscious and subconscious (as opposed to if we were robots or cyborgs who could change whenever we saw the logical need to regardless of feelings).

    and in THAT way, mental illness has a major biological limited component but is also within the range of normal adaption, because biological changes in the brain are a fully normal human attribute. without those chemical analogues of your 'mind' you wouldn't exist barring some kind of soul. that doesn't mean a 'chemical imbalance' is the CAUSE and theres absolutely no reason it would be most of the time if you really think about it. these 'disorders' are nuanced and grow over time. have taken neurology etc. the chemical imbalance is the result and biological manifestation of a bad psychological state at least the vast majority of the time. this is just the understanding ive gained reading the literature on both sides along with dealing with a shitload of people with mental illnesses. i used to be more along the lines of 'the biological model is just BS' and it is in a sense (its stigmatizing and misses the 'point'), but I think the reality of the matter is a lot more complex than that. sorry for the essay
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2011
  17. oxygenidia

    oxygenidia Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I feel the same way. I watched a documentary about these companies and it made some sense.. Your last line is pretty much sums up what I think about it.
    I was on anti depressants before and they never helped me, and the side effects have been bad, so no more meds for me now. I would only take them if I was really really really sick and needed them to function. If even then.
    My "issues" (or whatever the hell I should call them) are rooted in things that no meds could help with.
    That's my two cents though, if someone have mental issues that chemicals really help with..., then sure... Great for them.