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Mental health patients kill 1200 ....

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by FrainBart, Oct 10, 2013.

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  1. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    Yes, thats the facts, us mentally ill have killed that many people (in the UK) in 10 years i might add... yes the small font is necessary because thats what the stupid "The Sun" newspaper did.

    I know this is a bad one to put and I appologise... but also... I want people to look into how our health is perceived. A good article from the guardian..

    I find it disgusting how the world is in regards to mental health, is it because they are ignorant, or is it down to disgusting tabloids front page articles? perhaps a mix of both?
  2. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Definitely a mix of both. People are quite fickle and stupid. Unless they educate themselves, they don't have a clue. So people are ignorant. But what doesn't help is all these dumbass tabloids scaremongering and brainwashing the public, knowing full well that people aren't very well educated.
  3. meaningless-vessel

    meaningless-vessel Well-Known Member

    It is extremely startling how media outlets can be allowed to trivialise mental health in this way (re: the sun) - Mental health is undervalued, and often scapegoated for a lot of things which doesn't help those who suffer from it.
  4. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    This is a very difficult situation really. I believe it we were honest with ourselves we would find we also share many of these same prejudices. I have no "prejudice" against mental health issues , however if selecting child care for my son I would not consider somebody with an admitted history of mental health issues. Because they would not be able? nope. Because the person that did not admit it does not have? nope. Because I am a parent and if I did not know the person extremely well personally , I would not risk it.

    We all see ourselves and the people we know in a different light than a stranger. When the public are asked these questions they are thinking of strangers. The simple fact is, there is plenty of history to support that fear and anxiety - The Connecticut school shootings, the Navy shipyard shootings, and the lady killed in Washington DC last week after running over a police officer are all high profile examples. You do not need to look hard in even legitimate news sources to find many other examples almost daily.

    I am far more guarded about personal information here on this site than other types of forums I visit or places I post where I have no issue using real full name, and I am less guarded than most here.

    The real issue is that this stigma causes people to forego medication and treatment making the problem worse, rather than that there is not really a problem. That is of course purely opinion. That coupled with the inherent difficulty in mental health care of diagnosing and establishing levels of an illness makes it very hard to do anything when thinking about people you do not know at all but consider the worst. There are thousands of posts on here where people admittedly lie to psychiatrists and treatment professionals. While obviously very few times is that an issue of public safety, it is a clear indicator that one of the prevalent characteristics of mental illness is in denying severity or being obtuse in admission to symptoms. That lends to the impression lots of people have issues, but if they admit them at all they must be really really bad and likely worse than they admit. It is not fair on an individual level but is not inaccurate when applied to large populations.
  5. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    However would examples as what the newspaper posted create further stigma and taboo about mental health illnesses meaning less people would be willing to seek help being afraid to be labled as one of the "psycho killers"

    whats so misleading... 1200 in ten years, but whats the rate of non sufferes killing, whats also misleading is it failed to state that the rate was decreasing... and why was it decreasing... because people were going and receiving treatment. now with articles like this, whats the likelihood it will rise.
  6. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Yes, of course that type of article makes it worse in stigma. Unfortunately, it is also the only type of article that raises public awareness enough to get people to stop considering mental health as the least important illness and first place to cut services. When you say thousands suffer from depression, the result is people say "they will get over it - suck it up- and any of the other things they are told every day by even friends and family - by making it scary enough it carries the double edged sword of making the stigma worse but also - possibly- making people see the importance of treatment as well and just maybe the next round of cuts will not further gut the mental health services quite so badly.
  7. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    What people saw was spending a lot of money at a time, to show that articles like this were disgusting. People were buying shops out of the newspaper to burn it in bins as a statement that this is not the way to go about things, perhaps articles showing what good treatment can do, not the badness of mental health.

    they dont focus on the work so many people put in to supporting people suffering from "hidden" illnesses. theres posters going on about diabetes, and people crying, as if its the worst illness in the world. There is so much negative promotion of an ilness that they dont focus on offering the support out there, like "go to your doctors if you have these thoughts, contact this charity contact your mental health centre" it targets the weakness and negativity... the UK is already in a state of crush everything thats not working, that the next target will be those who are suffering.

    We've only just banned disgraceful posters telling people who may be in the country illegally to go home (if I could find the image I would share it)
  8. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    Psycho killers do have a mental illness, I think.
    Once there is a more accepted acceptance that mental illness needs to be addressed with far more funding and attention, and with less blame and more cure and prevention, then a big step forward will be made for the disease. When guns are involved, there is a huge outcry for gun control reform. Therefore, when news such as this is broadcast, should there not be a huge outcry for better identification, treatment, and expanded services geared toward helping reduce, or at least treat, mental illness.

    Someone in the mental health care industry said something to me yesterday that I found to be quite profound. I asked them if I could steal their statement and use it again and again. They agreed. What they pointed out was that when someone has a disease such as cancer, we don't say, "John Doe is cancer." Instead, we say, "John Doe HAS cancer." Why is it then that when someone has a mental illness (let's use bipolar as a for instance) that we say, "John Doe is Bipolar." Why do we not say, "John Doe HAS cancer"?

    There are so many stigmas out there in reflection to mental illness and the more that we can make people aware that mental illness is not an isolated issue that we can hide and it will go away, then the more apt we are to see more attention given to it for positive wellness-seeking results. JMHO.
  9. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    Yes I do agree more awareness needs to be made about mental health, but that is not by labeling them killers. when worked out there 1200 was less than a remarkable number. 0.01%. over 10 years.
    They could make news about 1 in 5 suffer depression, check inside to get information, check this check that, no. that would raise awareness. but instead they take a negative point that mental health patients have gone on to kill people... do they forget that non mentally ill also go out and commit crimes?
  10. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Positive publicity, like used to support other illnesses would be a great approach. Posters with athletes, celebrities, CEO's, etc saying I was treated or am being treated for xyz mental illness. This is very common in virtually all other illnesses, yet the stigma is still too strong for any to step up and volunteer from those walks ........
  11. TheLoneWolf

    TheLoneWolf Well-Known Member


    Forget what I posted. I've only been back for about a month now, no need to go stirring up controversy again.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2013
  12. Event_Horizon

    Event_Horizon SF Supporter

    This can pretty much be summed up as Fear sells. As does Hate and Atrocity. The media machine is rapidly becoming a poison owned by an ever smaller group of people who are pushing an agreed upon agenda. Journalistic standards are continually being eroded to make way for profit and ideology fed to people as truth regardless of consequence. The Sun is a laughable paper and is owned by a subsidiary of Rupert Murdochs media empire.

    It is very difficult now to find fair and balanced media sources that actually knows what facts are and frames statistics with out inference. What is worse is a lot of people are not taught any semblance of critical thinking. So they cannot even discern truth from fabrication. Instead there is an implicit trust in the media and the world it portrays as if it is an accurate reflection. When it often is not and just feeds bigotry and division. The media machine continually portrays fear and hate and a constant state of threat and negativity. This is why I refer to it as a poison. As solely indulging in negative consumption can only lead negative places and create distorted views of the world we live in.

    The mentally ill going round killing people as if it is some vast and horrific epidemic is one such distortion. The statistics used and the inferences made don't fit with reality. A classic case of correlation does not imply causation, the way the statistics were gathered themselves are entirely flawed. If I wanted to throw a further spanner in the works. How many mentally ill 'psycho's' that have killed were on any kind of medication at the time? How many approached services prior to eating their neighbours skin? How many went ignored by an ego driven Psychiatrist? How many begged for an admission and were turned away due to bed blocking practices? Or management pursuing targets in lieu of the human cost?

    What is an epidemic is failing mental health care across the country. Plenty of sane people kill one another all the time. Mentally ill people are also involved in violence. But more often subject to it or let down so badly it gets to that point before something is done. While the services that should have been there trot out empty lines like. 'Lessons will be learned.'

    The world is not black and white at all. This is why I take issue with many of the papers that spew nonsense devoid of empirical evidence, or independent expert analysis. They should not be called news outlets, but commentary outlets and purveyors of opinion. With maybe a disclaimer, 'opinion may not reflect reality.'

    PickwithAustin. The reason people call themselves Bipolar and Schizophrenic. Is because the whole world of mental health care is infantalising. Some people become so treated as their label and not a person they become their label and lose sight of themselves. Some people not only adopt their illness but also make it part of their self identity.

    The Sun acted irresponsibly but also likely knew that. Bad publicity is still good publicity. Those burning papers still had to buy them. Moral outrage sells well.
  13. pickwithaustin

    pickwithaustin Staff Alumni

    So then change is going to be necessary not only from those who are on the 'outside' of mental illness, but from those who are diagnosed it as well. There is an old saying that I think goes something like this: "Change must first come from within." If a person with cancer can say, "I have cancer," rather than "I am cancer," then maybe we can begin to teach those diagnosed with mental illness to do the same. Just a thought.
  14. rtrt46546565

    rtrt46546565 Well-Known Member

    I also find that disgusting. And I'd say it's due to ignorance, plain and simple. If people believe something just because it's in an article, well what else could that be other than ignorance? It's a shame people aren't willing to actually educate themselves on things, especially since we're living in an era when knowledge is pretty easily obtainable.
  15. Lost

    Lost Staff Alumni

    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 10, 2013
  16. itmahanh

    itmahanh Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    Ya know...if we the readers didn't keep fueling the bullshit that the papers put out, then maybe articles like the one in question wouldn't make front page, or even the 12th page, non at all would be best. People don't want to know the facts. They want the gore, the lies and if it involves a movie star or singer...make it even thicker.

    How many times do you read that a movie star or singer accidently overdosed. Seriously? Then those people must of been completely brain dead most of their lives. THEY didn't know not to mix their pills or take more than prescribed? Most times alcohol and other non-prescribed drugs are found at the scene too. They didn't know the end results that were going to befall them mixing those things? Damn rights they did. Hello People! They committed suicide. Then the media generally tries to turn the fault on the shoulders of the doctor, the families, the friend and even the fans. Why is it that when someone famous commits suicide it is too taboo to print? Because it is too real?
    Because other people are going to go out en mass and kill themselves at hearing the news? Because it may make some one else consider suicide? Please give us a break. If you are feeling suicidal, good chance is it has nothing to do with how a rich person ended their life.

    Mentally unhealthy people killed 1200 people? Maybe because were just so sick and tired of hearing the garbage the the media keeps trying to bury mental health issues under. Pa-lee-sss
  17. insiiideouuut

    insiiideouuut Well-Known Member

    And this is why crazy people do crazy fucking shit, because there's no help for us

    I don't appreciate being called a killer. and people wonder why I wanna die.
  18. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    If somebody wants to blame the newspaper report for doing something "crazy" then they have some issues that do need to be addressed. It may be triggering, it may be depressing, but ultimately we are responsible for our own actions, whatever they are. blaming other people for the symptoms of an illness is no better than those people looking at you as the symptom of an illness.....
  19. Yoyogirl86

    Yoyogirl86 Well-Known Member

    maybe we need to make stand and say we are not axe murderers.
  20. FrainBart

    FrainBart Staff Alumni

    A stand would not be good, but more awareness needs to be made of mental health illnesses. It needs to be known and not taboo, and the only way we can achieve that is through talking. and telling others about it.
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