Mental Illness is a Medical Condition (A Rant)

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Freya, Apr 10, 2015.

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  1. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    Lets just say it again - in case someone didn't quite get it the first time round:


    I read post after post here of people saying they feel so bad they want to DIE - that in their daily life they feel so awful that their constant overriding thought is how to make the pain stop - by any means necessary - including killing themselves...

    Then state they WILL NOT SEE A DOCTOR and/or that they stopped taking their medication because it made them gain weight or dropped their sex drive or made them drowsy or or or

    Which is it??

    Do you feel so awful that you will do ANYTHING TO MAKE THE PAIN STOP - is your day to day life SO BAD THAT YOU WANT TO DIE - or is it only bad but not bad enough to face being a little embarrassed explaining to the doctor, and not bad enough that you wouldn't rather feel this way than gain a few pounds and not bad enough that you wouldn't rather feel this way than feel drowsy... etc.

    Being suicidal is horrific- that level of personal pain - that degree of "I NEED this to STOP" is the scariest thing I have ever felt. Panic attacks are genuinely debilitating and traumatic things. When I feel that bad there is not a medication in the world I would not take to make it stop.

    And then there are all the people who take overdoses then claim that the medications do not work: OF COURSE THEY DO NOT WORK IF YOU TAKE THEM ALL AT ONCE AS AN OVERDOSE - if you are not taking them regularly every day for weeks to build a consistent therapeutic dose to treat your condition, but instead saving them up to overdose on, or taking them all at once at the start so you have none left - then no, they are not going to work.

    And you might wonder why am I ranting about other people's choices? Why does it make me so angry that people post about preferring to die than take medications with occasional side effects or preferring to die than see a doctor or claiming medications don't work when they are not using them properly - after all, their choices are their choices right? It is not affecting anyone else right?


    It is the incessant stigmatisation and belittling of mental illness that makes it impossible for the people who DO need help (especially in the UK - maybe not so much in the US) to get help. It is the behaviours of people who abuse their medications and don't take them properly that make it so hard for the people who do need them and do want to get better to get proper treatment.

    MENTAL ILLNESS IS A MEDICAL CONDITION - and by writing all over a SUICIDE FORUM that you think it is humiliating to get help - that meds don't work (even though you won't take them properly, or at all) - that you will lose your independence if you go to the doctor - that talking about your mental health is only for the weak or the pathetic - you are TELLING EVERYONE HERE THAT NEEDS HELP THAT THEY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF ASKING FOR IT AND ARE STUPID TO HAVE HOPE THAT IT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

    The sheer volume of people in society that claim suicidal people are just attention seeking, should suck it up, should just get on with their lives etc is appalling. But who can blame that attitude when a huge section of the people who claim to be suicidal won't get treated because:
    It is embarrassing to talk to a doctor
    They might put on weight
    They might not "feel things properly"
    They don't want to take medication for the rest of their lives

    Who can blame people for thinking "How bad can it be?" when it is not bad enough to tolerate a little embarrassment, or taking a pill every day, or putting on a few pounds in order to not feel that way?

    So I say - to those people:

    Mental illness is a MEDICAL CONDITION - it needs treating by medical professionals. GET TREATMENT. Stop declaring to everyone who will listen that seeing doctors is humiliating and weak and pathetic - take your meds as prescribed and if they are not working speak to your doctor like a grown adult. And, for the love of all things:

    STOP CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETAL STIMATISATION OF MENTAL ILLNESS so the people that DO feel so bad they would do anything to make it stop can get the treatment they need to get better.

    Rant over.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2015
  2. AAA3330

    AAA3330 Well-Known Member

    I feel that if a person is hurting bad enough that they would have no problem seeking treatment. As bad as I hurt seeking out treatment hasn't been a problem for me. The thing is in my case, there just doesn't seem to be anything that they can do. I've already been on all kinds of meds. I think that my brain is damaged and there's just no treatment for something like that.
    Brian777 likes this.
  3. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    There is a large difference in people that are frustrated with treatment or the difficulties getting treatment and those that simply choose not to for whatever reason (the 10 or so listed by the original poster or the other 100 or so I read and hear in chat here). I am sorry you have not found effectvie treatment but I do honestly believe you will at some point because you make the effort to try - it may not work , and it may leave you frustrated at yet another attempt without the hoped for result, but if you keep trying you will fiind something that helps even if a "cure" is nto to be had.

    AS Freya mentioned, I do not understand the discussion of it being the worst feeling in the world and would do anything to make it stop even kill self - followed immediately by a long list of things that they won't do because of trivial side effects or embarrassment. Even the "long term effects can be devastating -- well so are the long term effects of suicide. I sadly have come to the conclusion that people that refuse and and all help because of these type of things are in fact responsible for the stereotype that the public at large has of lazy, attention seeking, just unwilling to try or put in any effort, etc etc .. My reasoning is very simple. Compare it to physical pain. If something hurts you stop it - any way possible- no amount of will power can force to endure physical pain if there is a way to minimize it if the pain reaches a certain level. In my case the mental pain is just as bad- so I do not understand and frankly do not believe the pain is more than a discomfort for somebody that can go months years and decades and not do anything about it. It clearly is not the worse pain imaginable if as soon as you say that you list half a dozen things that are worse (like talk to a dr, gain a few pounds (or few stone), talk to parent or counselor. Then it is no longer "intolerable pain" , it is a choice , a very simple choice that one is making and if one chooses to accept the "mental pain" instead of look for a way to fix it then , no, I do not believe the pain really is on the same scale that many here face. When the pain is real and really that bad, the choice no longer exists. Just my opinion.
  4. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords If you're 555, then I'm 666.

    Honestly, for me, anti-depressants haven't worked even when I took them properly every day and I have been on many different ones. The only thing that did work was benzos but those ended up causing more problems in the end cause I started popping them like skittles at one point. Also to be fair, there are a few people with depression and eating disorders who probably would rather die than gain any weight...and you've read my posts lately so I'm sure you can see I would probably be one of those people. I know it seems stupid in a way, but in my mind I guess there's no possible way I could stop being depressed if I felt like I got fat in the would only make my self-esteem worse and in turn make me want to die even more. I say all this hypothetically though because I haven't been so depressed lately that I've wanted to die, but there was a point when I did. Although I do understand what you're saying. A lot of people don't even care to try to get better and then complain that they want to die. I agree to an extent, but it depends on the person and their situation. As for the healthcare system though, well, I live in the U.S. and honestly, unless you have insurance through public assistance, it can be very difficult to get medical care even over here. And sometimes even with public assistance they give you a ton of crap about getting certain meds and make it extremely difficult. Granted, this doesn't have anything to do with mental health but just to give you an example, I had to be on antibiotics recently for about 2 months and my insurance (I get it from welfare) denied me an antibiotic I needed and it made my doctor have to prescribe me something else, and then they denied me Diflucan even though the antibiotics caused yeast infections for me and I needed to take it every day to get rid of the burning which as brutal. My insurance however wouldn't let me fill it most of the time and I ended up having to go back and forth to the pharmacy countless times and buy a bunch of them out of pocket for $17 a pill. So, in my opinion, the healthcare system just sucks in general...whether people abuse it or not.
  5. Koji

    Koji Well-Known Member

    While I agree with much of what is said in the opening post, i feel the need to make a counterpoint. To some people, the potential embarrasment of talking to a doctor, or the potential side effects of medications is a fate worse than death. I've had ECT suggested by doctors a couple of times, and after reading about the potential side effects, it's an unacceptable option for me, namely due to the potential memory loss. I'd rather die a whole person than live as a partial one. Of course, no one knows what death is like, so no solid argument can be made either way. It's my personal choice. I don't believe in the notion of 'survival at any cost.' But of course that's my personal view. I don't think it's any more or less valid than other people's preferences. However, when it comes to such things, i think people's personal views should be respected, whether we agree with them or not. Because in the end, no one knows for sure.
  6. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    My issue is not with the people who try things and stick to medications and genuinely work with doctors to get better - my issue is with the people who DON'T take meds as prescribed then complain they do not work - and, worse, the people who will not see a doctor at all because they are perpetuating the idea that mental health is not something that people should seek treatment for - the people who claim they won't see a doctor because it is embarrassing or makes them weak or they don't want to be "reliant on medication to feel normal" - it is that attitude that helps the stigma build around mental illness - the idea that people should not HAVE to take meds to feel well; they should just sort it out for themselves. Nobody would say that about a physical illness.

    The point you are making about it being really hard to get medical help is exactly my point as well - it should not BE so hard to get mental health assistance; it is a medical condition that needs to be addressed and treated by medical professionals. The people who abuse their benzos and develop a problem make it harder for the people who take them correctly and use them to manage their condition to get them.

    Of course there are people with ED who would rather die than get fat - but that in itself is a medical condition that needs to be treated by medical professionals. The myth that mental health treatment is useless is one of the things that makes it so difficult to get. Why pour resources into something that so many people shriek does not work - most often because they are not compliant with the medication, or drink and take drugs at the same time, or simply do not communicate with the people trying to help them.

    If someone chooses not to get treatment and adhere correctly to that treatment, and then they do not get better - that is a choice they are making - it is not the fault of the medical system and it does not mean that depression and mental illness cannot be successfully managed with the correct medical care. And claiming that it is - especially on a board full of people with suicidal people - is dangerously perpetuating a false idea that mental health care is useless and pointless which both stops people who need it from seeking it, and stops there being sufficient funding and drive to provide it for the people who do want to get better.
  7. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    I am actually going to move this to the soap box.
  8. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Member Safety & Support SF Supporter

    I agree with what's been said. A for me I do take my medications as prescribed (the odd extra valium which im allowed too) and they all work, including the mood stabilizer. You MUST always take your medications exactly as prescribed otherwise you can't complain they don't work. You are wasting the doctors time and making your condition worse. There was a time a few years back I didn't take them right and I really went off the rails and did things I should not have done. But that's all my fault. I think it all comes down to following the doctor's instructions and if you are not able to handle your meds then have someone take care of them for you.
  9. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords If you're 555, then I'm 666.

    Honestly, I intended to abuse them to begin with. I manipulated the doctor 4 ways to Sunday into thinking I was having serious panic attacks during which I could barely breathe. Halfway true. I did have anxiety, but not to that extent most of the time. Although the other meds they tried giving me for anxiety didn't do shit, so suppose I did actually want to try them for my anxiety and use them properly. If I told that doctor the truth about what my situation really was, do you honestly think she would have given me benzos? Hell no. And why? Not because she knew I was an addict, because nobody knew at the time...but because many junkies do intend to get benzos in order to abuse them, and because of that it does make it more difficult for everyone else. Nevertheless, I personally, wouldn't blame that on the junkies. They're sick. A symptom of that sickness is drug-seeking behavior. I would blame it more on the health care providers who can't tell for shit who the right people are to give narcotics to. First of all, doctors discriminate against different races. They're much more likely to give narcotics to white people than blacks or hispanics because in their mind a white guy from the suburbs can't possibly be an addict or intend to sell their meds. A black guy out, he's going to go sell them on the corner. Ridiculous, considering regardless of whether one is black, white, hispanic, chinese, etc. it doesn't make you any more or less likely to become an addict or a drug dealer for that matter. Secondly, doctors care more about covering their asses legally than they do about their patients most of the time. Even though logically they damn well know that what the patient is describing calls for a narcotic, just because they're worried that that person is going to do something illegal with them even though they have no valid reason to worry about that, they won't give it to them just to be a dick. So yeah, all in all, I blame doctors, not junkies. Also, think about this: if our healthcare system wasn't so fucking retarded in the first place, it would be a lot harder for junkies to shop around for narcotics like they do with multiple different health care professionals. But saying that a sick person is the reason other people don't get the chances they deserve is wrong, I think. I was recently in the hospital due to my crohn' stomach was absolutely killing me. I was in so much pain I was crying. They did X-Rays on me, which confirmed there was something wrong and I was legitimately in pain. But guess what? Because they knew I was previously on Suboxone for opiate dependency, they discriminated against me immensely. Wouldn't even give me Toradol for the pain, which is a non-narcotic NSAID, instead they had me waiting for at least a couple hours AFTER the X-rays, and then the doc came up with the brilliant idea of an NG tube to get all my stomach contents out which "should relieve the pain". I said alright fine whatever, just do something. So they bring this fucking tube, and the bitch is thick as hell. Like half an inch at least. Imagine that getting stuck up your nose. It hurt so much, I started crying even harder, and now I was bleeding all over the place too out of my nose. I started screaming for them to get it the fuck out and away from me after that, and then finally the doctor decides to give me .5mg of Dilaudid. And .5 by the way is absolutely nothing for a bowel obstruction, it barely helps at all, even to someone who has no tolerance for opiates. I do have a tolerance and that was all I got. Point is, addicts are discriminated against by health professionals just as much as other people whether they're clean or not, which again brings me to my main point that doctors are the assholes in this situation.
  10. ChestnutMay

    ChestnutMay Antiquities Friend

    Having just posted about my own recent misuse of ambien, I'm finding this thread to be extremely topical. Nothing to add - just a hearty endorsement.
  11. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    The only part missing was to blame the doctors for ever giving the narcotics for the illness/addiction to begin with.... I am sorry and even agreeing that addiction is an illness I cannot make these multiple contradictory statement make sense... And legally covering their asses is because the person convicted of abusing drugs gets between nothing and a fine or order to seek treatment while they lose their license to practice medicine wasting 12 years of education, go to jail, and have no job so they choose to let people suffer if they do not feel very sure of the purpose of the drugs.

    Yes, that is precisely the issue while many that need some classifications of medications cannot get them. Describing addiction as an illness may reduce the culpability to the person scamming the drugs, it does not in anyway change the fact that is why others that are not abusing them find it near impossible to get them.
  12. ChestnutMay

    ChestnutMay Antiquities Friend

    I have asked myself many times: How much control do I have over this? The days when I can force myself to get up and be productive - are those the days when I am "less ill" because my dopamine (or whatever) levels happen to be a wee bit higher? Or are those the days when I am more in control? And what is the difference? Sometimes I think a lot about the question of "Free Will".

    The issue of penalties for misuse and/or misprescribing controlled substances is way too complex for my poor absued brain to deal with at the moment only to say the War on Drugs has failed. Wish I knew the solution.
  13. Lost

    Lost Staff Alumni

    As messed up as it sounds, I guess in my case its avoidance due the fact the thought of openly saying to someone's face, how much I detest myself is not something I can imagine myself doing with a stranger. Did it once with someone thought could trust with it, did not plan out so yeah.. Also fact I find it impossible to hold eye contact with another person because I don't like the thought of them looking at me. Yes I should do it for myself but fact not even my own family really gives a shit either way unless it suits their own needs, I see very little point even but hey I'm not dead yet so..

    Also most of the planet knows full well about avoidance.

    EDIT: Also I know post was made for right reasons but not exactly the right way to go about telling someone they need help IMO. Found it quite belittling and lacking in much understanding which I am surprised at.
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2015
  14. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords If you're 555, then I'm 666.

    You don't give people narcotics for addiction obviously, unless it's something like Suboxone or Methadone, but for physical illnesses if the person is in pain it's necessary to do so - addict or not. I get why they want to cover their asses, but my point was that they're overly protective of their asses to the point that it becomes a negligence/malpractice issue. Also, doctors aren't going to go to jail or lose their license for prescribing narcotics to people who need them, even to addicts. The only way that would happen is if they're overprescribing narcotics to everybody and anybody whether they need them or not, selling free samples right from their office, or manipulating/blackmailing patients with them. Addicts aren't the main reason people find narcotics so hard to get. The main reason is stupidity. The stupidity of our government when it comes to making rules and regulations, the stupidity of the health care system, and the stupidity of ignorant ass doctors who care only about themselves, even though like I said an addict selling their medication wouldn't be the doctor's fault unless they knew about it and didn't care or they prescribed that medicine without a legitimate reason.
  15. AsphyxiateOnWords

    AsphyxiateOnWords If you're 555, then I'm 666.

    In fact, to be honest, a lot of the new drug policies they're making nowadays make it even more easy for addicts to get what they want, and harder for others. If you're going to tell me that that's not primarily the government's stupid ass fault, I don't know what to tell you.
  16. Butterfly

    Butterfly Sim Addict Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    I've been doing a lot of work on tackling avoidance in therapy as this is one issue that I struggle with a lot as do all the other members in the group. It's not just as straight forward as just seeing the doctor and then all will be well again. I don't think people necessarily refuse to see a doctor. I think all people who have felt depressed or have a mental health condition have considered seeing a doctor but have talked themselves out of it for many reasons. It could be the fact they are too embarrassed to tell a doctor, it could be fear of being labelled, fear of losing their job, fear of putting on weight from meds etc. If the key emotions are fear and humiliation despite all rational reasoning of why you need to see a doctor, then the fight or flight response comes in and the chances are that people will avoid going to the doctors. Truthfully, out of the people here on the forum, how many of us have either waited until we were completely desperate before we sought help, or were sectioned or put on a psychiatric hold before we actually entered the system to get the help we needed? I think the answer would be the vast majority of people here.

    There are also complications from different mental health conditions that make it not so easy to seek help. If you talk to someone who is heavily depressed and psychotic, the pain the feel is completely intolerable because they are suicidal but also have the added complication of being psychotic. A person in this situation may openly say they would do anything for the pain to stop, but if they are hearing voices telling them that seeking help is going to harm them, will get them locked away etc then it is tough spot for that person to be in. Their reality is completely distorted. They want the pain to stop but they can't seek help because they believe something bad will happen to them. That's not that persons fault. They are ill. They do not have the rationale that mildly depressed person has or a mentally well person has. Then you have somebody like me. I fought for years to get the treatment I needed. I became unwell whilst seeking help, whilst on meds, whilst in therapy and I became psychotic and stopped taking my meds for various reasons. Was it my fault? Maybe it was. It was not a smart decision but when you have intense paranoia and have the belief you are being poisoned you believe you are doing it for the best. Few weeks later I had a more rational moment and realised what had been going on and got back on my meds etc. But I don't think they were effective on restarting them and depression took hold with paranoid beliefs and I am now in the mind set where I no longer believe I deserve to be helped, I've wasted time and resources that could go to somebody else. I self destructed in the most harmful way possible. I cancelled my psych and my HIV appointments, I stopped taking my meds. The place I am in is terrible and yes I would do anything not to feel this way but because of my irrational thoughts and behaviour, I have completely shot myself in the foot and I am effectively at the bottom of the chain again. My point is, it's not straight forward when distorted and irrational thinking is involved. This does not necessarily have to be psychosis, this applies to depression, anxiety and any other mental health disorder out there. When we are ill, our fight and flight and threat system works too well, and any sign of being uncomfortable, we run. This isn't necessarily anyone's fault, it's just how we are tuned after feeling unwell for a long time.

    I also frequent some other forums where med compliance is a massive issue for them usually from BPD or people who have issues with control. A lot of these people stockpile their medications because they like to feel that they have control. They don't necessarily do it because they intend to kill themselves or overdose, but that they feel like they have choice. To a rational person it is very irrational, and I completely understand the argument for "How can you get better if you don't take your meds?" These people understand that argument too. There is one person in particular who I am thinking of when I type this. She had dual issues with BPD and substance abuse. Prior to being hospitalised for detox she stockpiled all her meds and was a regular OD'er and was always drunk when she OD'ed. Because of this, her mental health team took her meds off her and gave it to a designated person (not a health professional, a friend). This person was the only person allowed to pick up the prescription and the lady in question had to travel 2x daily to get her meds. This actually made the lady less compliant with her medication than before so she was practically taking nothing, her depression spiralled, ended up in hospital on detox then ended up being sectioned. Thankfully she is doing a lot better, but med compliance is still an issue but is a lot better than before. She actually has control of her own medications now, and she feels a lot better being able to control when and if she takes her meds and more often than not she takes them. Again my point is, it's not so easy. When you are plagued with thoughts and fear of not being in control, again you become irrational.

    I don't think this thread will actually make people consider seeking help anymore than before they read it. I don't think aggressively bolding out points, enlarging text etc gets your point across anymore than kindness, understanding and compassion does. There are multiple points to consider and the issue is people are not mentally well, they are plagued with irrational thinking which stops them from seeking help. Yes these behaviours are not helpful and it can damage the reputation of people with mental health problems and add to the stigma, but posts like these don't help and add to the stigma just as much. Many of us know we should be seeking help but that mental barrier stops us for whatever reason. Whether that is previous experiences of seeking help, fears, anxiety etc that mental barrier is tantamount to being locked up in a cage. You try to break out of it but you can't because you are locked in. We are not stupid, we know we can't get better if we don't seek help. We also need to be mindful of how shockingly shit mental health care is across the world in general, that is also enough to put anyone off seeking help.

    I'm not making excuses for people. I also get frustrated when I see the same posts every day and the same things said in chat. It's easy for us when not in that persons shoes to tell them what they should do, but we are not that person and it may not be so easy. That is something we should be mindful of.
  17. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Well, things affect each of us differently. For me, all my problems, are just problems that I've created, and some I've endured. Somethings have compounded based off of pain and fear, and without understanding and actively dealing with them, I have allowed those fears and pain to hinder my interactions and advancement in life. So instead of going straight, I'd slow down, or avoid something, because of the consuming fear and ..yadda yadda yadda.( this generally stunts development, which just perpetuates more problems and adds to a compounded perception of "Fuck")

    sometimes I wake up and feel the presence of everything compounded and saturated to the point where I it's all enclosing and I can't breathe. It's terrifying sure, but it's not something I let win. It's a rareity, and over time I've learnt to refind my respect for myself... slowly. The truth is I know not a single person can truly help me. All anyone can do is give encouragement and comfort. But the steps for overcoming and growing all boil down to me.

    i think being down, or hurt or disillusioned or suicidal even does not entirely constitute a mental illness. There are varying degrees of it. Definitely some people have it where they have no or little understanding of what is happening to them, and it starts to cascade out of control. That's a very serious problem and it helps for those people to seek help. But not everyone is like that.

    Some of us just .... are on a whole other section of enduring and dealing with our own shit. It can get dicey, and deadly, but that doesnt mean it's mental illness. Some people are too quick to jump to a classification of their situation.

    And yes, some people are far too disregarding of getting help that they miss out on something that could very well help them. It doesn't help that there are alot of ignorant people out there. But there are ignorant people for everything. In the end though, just be smart about how you broadcast your personal life. And don't listen to idiots who know nothing about a disharmonious life. The point is to heal/fix you, so if you can that on your own great. If not, look for people who know a thing or two about personal health in all aspects.

    Sorta like who you want to be, what you want, planning, actively doing it, motivation, protecting yourself from yourself and others, dealing with problems.. growing.... ect. Most of the shit is finding a center you carry forward. Some people don't realize that there are individuals who endure very chaotic and self destructive that can cycle in whether they want it to or not. That's generally when you need help. And tbh surface society knows fuck all about things beyond a surface perception. Listening to that chatter is poison for your brain and soul, and will more than likely cause you to retract and dismiss, rather than pursuing an active method of dealing with the problems, which will let you have a real free Life. jmo
  18. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Yah know... I re-read this. And while I can see the point, it's rather aggressive. It's not a good idea to bitch slap people who are in difficult situations, especially when they are expressing their opinion on how they feel about something. If someone feels it is weak to talk to a doctor, that is their personal opinion and they should not be chastised for it. Otherwise this forum should provide a frame work of what is acceptable to say and not to say because it might "confuse" potential readers.

    I thought I'd also point out that.. you're essentially doing the samething to people who you disagree with. Except yours is directly attacking their views and telling them it's wrong. Discomfort, disappointment, Pain, suffering, is different for everyone. I get what you are saying, but while You think people need to whittle away their positions, I believe You need to learn how to learn respect for people who have a different point of view on how to handle things. Or read between the lines on what people are saying. People speak on all sorts of levels, and you are not going to bridge any gaps by assaulting people.

    Thanks for sharing your point of View. Unfortunately, it doesn't work for everyone, so you are ultimately wrong in your blanketed assumptions on what the downside of life is all about :) But I can obviously see what you are talking about. Maybe it's better to help some people realize that there is more than one option. One is not for All. If we blend everything, we lose who we are.

    Just to clarify. Some people have mental illnesses and are suicidal. Some people are coherent and know exactly what they are doing, and are suicidal.
  19. MisterBGone

    MisterBGone Well-Known Member

    That was very good Butterfly! Thank you. I learned something...
  20. Deleted SKU

    Deleted SKU Well-Known Member

    Mental illness is a medical condition, but unlike most medical conditions, the cause is usually a complex one, and the most difficult aspect of it is that every case is different. Let me repeat that. Every case is different.

    The problem with this sort of aggressive attitude towards people who are suffering from mental illness, is that it is just as bad as telling someone who is anxious to stop worrying, someone who is depressed to be happy. If it were anywhere near as simple a thing as that, don't you suppose that most people, at least those suffering from neurotic conditions, would not have done it by now? The social stigma around mental illness is a difficult one, I don't think there will be any disagreement at all from users of SF. But the personal circumstances that many people have to deal with on top of that is what often makes medical help seem like a non-option, or an option worse than death. Not only are peoples attitudes towards mental illness different, so are peoples attitudes to death itself, which is something that too many people, even on here, don't seem to appreciate. And invalidating the circumstances surrounding a persons thoughts and feelings, being dismissive, saying 'screw your feelings, just go to a doctor', is the sort of attitude which I fear would drive some people to actually killing themselves.

    For many people SF is a last resort, a refuge away from all the stuff in their life which is hurting them, a place where being suicidal is ok, where those thoughts and feelings are understood, maybe not perfectly, but enough, because so many of us here have been through and are still going through exactly the same thing. Or at least, a place where being able to express those feelings should be ok. And for some people that is hopelessness, but I would argue that anyone who is still strong enough to be able to talk about it, to express what they are going through, rather than stay silent, is trying to overcome their illness. And in addition to that, I would state that sometimes simply expressing that is an attempt to purge those feelings from their day to day life, or to put some distance between themselves and their thoughts, so they can look upon them, consider them, and hopefully start to overcome them.

    Now I get where this post is coming from, I really do, and I get why some people are in agreement. The difficulty in places like SF is that with so many different people, with different illnesses, as well as simply different personalities, it is easy sometimes for people to get caught in spirals of despair, where they see others struggling with things similar to themselves, and having no success in resolving that illness, that it can trigger people to feel worse. But the fundamental misunderstanding that seems to be here, is that people are talking about their own feelings. If someone is saying that no-one should get medical treatment, that no-one should see a doctor, that people are weak for doing so... then in my opinion, they don't have a place on a support forum like SF. But if it's simply how someone feels about their own situation, then posts like this, telling people they are wrong in feeling how they do, that they are being bad, and hurting others... well in my opinion at least, that's pretty fucked up, it's adding to both the social stigma, and the personal feeling of isolation that these people already feel. If you don't understand, don't want to understand, or don't want to deal with someone who expresses themselves that way, then fair enough, but hostile attitudes towards people whose situation you don't understand, whose circumstances you don't know... ugh, it makes me angry. Because honestly, I was in this sort of place years back. I'd have rather died than go to a doctor, and dealt with the implications that would have arisen because of it. I was almost driven to suicide because of this sort of attitude that a couple of people took with me on another website. And I'm alive today, and struggling to turn things around because of the sort of people who didn't try to know better than I did about my own circumstances, but instead simply listened, understanding that sometimes the best way to deal with the sort of toxic thought that stops people trying to get help is just to be able to express it.

    So yeah, please no-one take any of this personally... I've responded to some rants with one of my own, but it is an issue I feel very strongly about.
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