More guns equals more gun violence?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Bob26003, Apr 29, 2010.

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  1. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    Of the 22,000 handgun deaths every year, most are suicides. The second category -- homicides -- are mostly committed by family members or friends in the course of an argument. Then there are the accidental deaths, some involving children finding guns "hidden" by their parents. Most gun misuse is not by "hardened criminals." Nationally handguns are used to kill criminals about 250 times per year. For every criminal killed in self-defense with a handgun, nearly 100 citizens die in suicides, homicides involving friends and family, and accidents.

    The fundamental question our society has to answer: Are more guns the answer to all the gun violence -- or the crux of the problem? In 1968 we had about 40 million handguns. In 1985 we had about 60 million. Today we have around 70 million handguns. If more handguns were the solution, the USA would have the lowest rate of gun violence of all the industrialized countries. Instead, we have the highest. Regions of the USA with the highest gun ownership (the West and the South) for decades have had the highest suicide and homicide rates.

    Handguns in the home or on the street pose risks to everyone, including the gun owners. Surely none of us would allow anyone to booby trap their house with land mines to protect it, or to have dynamite or a machine gun in their home to repel a home invasion. We try to psychoanalyze those who kill their fellow workers, family and strangers. But we fail to connect the dots of all these tragedies: "and they had a gun."

    Just recently we had a second shooting at Northern Illinois University. In courses that I reach at Oakton Community College and Wright College, 40 percent of my students know someone who has been shot or killed with a gun. Every grammar school, high school and college now is at risk. Do we value our guns more than our kids?

    Is our answer going to be more guns -- and not only more guns, but allowing people to carry them concealed on the street, into college dorms, at sporting events and at bars? That is exactly what the Republican candidate for governor wants. For the last 60 years, Democrat and Republican governors have all supported reasonable gun control in Illinois -- not more guns in public places.

    Victims of gun violence call for change. They represent the silent majority: the 85 percent who in public opinion polls want reasonable gun-control measures.,edison-park-gunessay-040810-s1.article
  2. alloutoftears

    alloutoftears Account Closed

    guns don't kill people, people kill people

    the freedom to choose shouldn't be removed

    you americans are so lucky to have that freedom
  3. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    I dunno man, there are alot of accidental deaths from guns.

    In 2005 there were 789 unintentional firearm deaths in the U.S. There were 642 in 2006. Information for 1981-2006 can be found at the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control (which is part of the Centers for Disease Control.)

    Plus, you dont think its scary to have everyone walking around packing heat?

    cause thats where we are headed. AZ just passed a law that you dont even need a friggin permit to carry around a concealed gun.
  4. Tobes

    Tobes Well-Known Member

    For the life of me, I don't understand Americans' obsession with guns. I know that the defenders of them cry that it is a safety procedure, but if it's for the home you get similar safety results with a baseball bat. As for carrying them in public, it is an all around stupid idea, unless you are a cop or security guard. If there is a good reason to, other than in apprehension of a criminal, I don't know about it.

    While I tend to think more guns equates to more gun violence, I still think it is more the attitude and mood (and level of everyday fear) of the holder than the simple possession that does the damage. If you are quick to anger or prone to flying off the handle, you should not own a gun.

    Bowling For Columbine covers this story very well. Moore goes to Canada, and notes that while a lot of Canadians possess firearms, violence is a lot lower. The reasons, he believes, are that there is a general level of trust among citizens (probably moreso in the towns than cities), and calmer and more peaceful reports on the news. They don't witness violence as much, so they don't cause violence as much. Now I have never been to Canada so I don't know if that is entirely accurate, but if it is it makes sense.

    Here in Australia, gun violence is generally not an issue (at least not where I live). I know a lot of Aussies own guns, but they are not usually for home protection as much as they are for hunting. I don't remember hearing more than 5 cases of gun violence on the news by a citizen of Australia, other than a criminal. I don't live in a city though, and it might be a bit different in one. I doubt it though, as they report violence from all over the country.

    I guess it's actually smarter to not own a gun, as the chances of being robbed or having your home invaded by someone other than police are no more than twice in a lifetime. And like I said, a baseball bat would most likely do the trick anyway. I have nothing wrong with having guns for collection or hunting, but if you buy a gun thinking you are going to use it, you probably will, but it might not be on a criminal.

    I woudn't buy one.
  5. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    Totally agree, Tobes
  6. lonercarrot

    lonercarrot Well-Known Member

    I suggest anyone interested in this watch "Penn & Teller Bullshit: Gun Control". You can probably find it on youtube
  7. An Angel in Black

    An Angel in Black Well-Known Member

    dude what is it with you.. thats a stupid thing to say, gun control leads to less crime.. NO!! its the opposite.. allow me to explain.. first off to comment, i dotn nessecarily believe the statistics your getting at because statistics are easily manipulated. and theyres a lot of other factors ppl usually fail to consider. if you dont believe me look that one guy i think his name is kinsey who did the male homosexual study and came out with 10% of all males are homosexual. it wasnt until the late 80s when someone looked at his data and found out he got it soley from prison and california. hopefully this wil give you an example on how weak statistics really are. this is where common sense comes into play. if you took away your gun whats to stop the burgler from breaking an entry? what do they have to be scared of seriously.. and do you honestly think that even if guns are banned a criminal cant get one? no its called the black market and you can bet theyll have one. if you take away ppls guns the law abiding citizens arent going to have one and the criminals are. crime wil be worse than ever. if someone wants to kill someone or themselves bro i got news for you, a gun isnt the only way to do it. theyll find something else. taking away guns isnt gonna do jack except raise crime. i will agree theyres certain places you shouldnt have a gun. but if it makes you more comfortable having one on you go for it. i have a friend who when hes out riding his motorcycle he wears his clearly on his side. you can bet ppl are a little more cautious of being rude. as they should be.. i know i know.. im smart :cool: you know you could learn a lot from me bob.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  8. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    Does more guns equal more GUN violence? I think so.

    Does it equal more total violence? Probably not.

    If I'm pissed off enough to kill someone whether or not I have a gun is not going to be a factor in the situation.
  9. IV2010

    IV2010 Well-Known Member

    in Australia the gun laws are really strict.....
    does it stop the violence?...NO.. now they use knives and machettes...
    think I'd rather be shot than cut to bits...
  10. KittyGirl

    KittyGirl Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I'm kinda with Tobes- too.

    I don't really understand how so many people can feel the need to carry a gun with them- and so many people get killed by guns.
    I'm not saying Canada is *that* much better... but every family I know owns a whole rack of guns and no one's getting shot.
    My little brother has 2 guns for hunting; and my mom owns 3.

    I personally would never get a gun for any reason-- then again; I *am* the crazy person in the house who doesn't leave her room because she's paranoid that people who pass her on the street are going to attack her... um-lol- I see guns as being used for hunting rather than protection. I don't hunt; therefore- no reason for me to own a gun.
  11. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Every male between the age of 20-30 in Switzerland is required BY LAW to own and maintain a firearm as part of their national service.
    It is a country where nearly every home owns a fully automatic assault rifle, theirs something like 700,000 SIG 510's rifles (its a pretty nifty weapon for those who arnt interested in such things) in private possesion aswell as an unknown number of sidearms that I can only find estimates for at just over a million.

    Yet on average they have fewer gun related attacks per capita than the UK, despite us having some of the strictest gun control laws in the entire world.

    Now imagine if every American male was required to keep a fully loaded M4A1 or M16A2 (I forget what you guys are using now) and you really can be proud of yourselves.

    On the note of gun control decreasing crime.
    Since the UK handgun ban in 1997 gun crime has nearly trippeled and only in very recent years has even a marginal decrease began.

    Guns dont cause anything bad to happen, only idiots.
  12. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    you take away guns & ppl will just use knives its not the guns creating more violence its the population and the lack of employment with proper wages. sounds like we need a ww3 to do some population cleansing
  13. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    I'm so tired of these hogs advocating banishment of guns, but they don't want to face the reality that you have to eliminate what's causing people to turn to violence in the first place. Shit, it's not as if once you get rid of guns, it's all of a sudden gonna be a utopia. People are still going to fight, people are still going to die, and people are still going to kill. I'd rather have the free option to have a gun when I want it, than to need it and not be able to have access to it.

    Hell, gun control? Please. How do you think the Columbine killers got their guns? Tighter gun restrictions are not going to stop a damn thing because anybody that wants a gun can get one.
  14. An Angel in Black

    An Angel in Black Well-Known Member

    thats a really sick statement bro.. what we need is a government in the US that actually does its job. not lie about creating jobs, not lie about lowering taxes either.
  15. An Angel in Black

    An Angel in Black Well-Known Member

    well said :goodjob:
  16. kitanai

    kitanai Well-Known Member

    the world over populates i cant help that but war does just look at how others suffer from over population if it wasent for war america would have sunk sooner then it is now.
  17. empty101

    empty101 Well-Known Member

    Well I think that looking at homicide rates isn't fair at all. It overlooks people who are threatened by guns and people who are wounded by guns.

    I'm from Canada and there just isn't an issue here. There's no big group of people who are so proud to be gun owners, there's no one worried that you are going to be attacked and can't defend yourself and we just don't have a violent history.

    Yet I think to the terrible things that COULD happen... and it makes me feel good knowing I'm not completely weak and vulnerable in this world with a gun. Then I realize it's not really realistic that these things will happen... sure there are rare situations that you hear about on the news but they are SO MUCH MORE RARE than most people think. Paranoia on a mass scale. I think a lot of the media has people more worried than they should be. If people thought that it's so ridiculously unrealistic that they would ever need a gun they wouldn't feel the need to own one or care about the right to own one.
  18. An Angel in Black

    An Angel in Black Well-Known Member

    @empty101 love the avatar :cool:
  19. flyingdutchmen

    flyingdutchmen Well-Known Member

    i find this pretty scaring, did anyone of the "guns do not lead to higher crime rates"-screamers ever borthered to look up some statistics or maybe create a litle ratio chart using excell (we all have excell dont we?) using data from wikipedia or a academic source ? are you realy that ignorant to just scream what you might 'think could be true' ? where are your sources to backup those statements ? you need to know 2 things only.. the amount of guns hold per household and the amount of gun related murders per xyz population to calculate the ratio.

    see the attached file, used is data from civilized western country's only

  20. cult logic

    cult logic Staff Alumni

    That link is for FIREARM deaths.

    It's obvious that more guns equals more gun violence.

    If you take the guns away, people will just use something else.
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