Muslim woman wearing veil 'refused bus ride' in London

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by Issaccs, Jul 23, 2010.

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  1. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    So a metrolink driver refused a Muslim student entrance too the bus as she was a "threat" to the other passengers.
    While I wouldn't have made the same decision I understand the drivers motives and find it hard to be too annoyed at him however I think he has missed the point.
    It is the males of her entire family who should be refused service, little bastards.
  2. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Im thinking of wearing a balaclava around london for religious reasons :lol!:
  3. thedeafmusician

    thedeafmusician Staff Alumni

    I disagree with calling the males of her family bastards. You simply don't know enough about her family for it to be justified. Sometimes it is the WOMAN'S choice, too. Aside from that i do also think it is unfair to be refused a bus ride.

  4. Prinnctopher's Belt

    Prinnctopher's Belt Antiquities Friend SF Supporter

    Two Muslim women have claimed they were refused a bus ride because one had her face covered by a veil.

    The 22-year-old students, of Slough, Berkshire, were in London and boarded a Metroline bus from Russell Square to Paddington on Tuesday.

    But they said when they presented their tickets the driver told them they were a "threat" to passengers and ordered them off the bus.

    An investigation has been started by the firm as a matter of "urgency".

    The pair, who have made a formal complaint to the bus company, have asked the BBC not to reveal their full names.

    Yasmin, who was wearing a hijab, and Atoofa, dressed in a niqab - which covers the face - were in London to hand in university work and would usually have taken the Tube, but because Yasmin's feet were hurting they opted to travel by bus.

    Yasmin said at first she boarded the bus by mistake when it was not in service to ask if it was going to Paddington station, but was told by the driver to get off.

    "My gut reaction was just to laugh because I thought it was hilarious to be told to get off the bus," she said.

    "About 10 minutes later... the passengers started getting on. When I went forward to show my ticket he said, 'Get off the bus'. I presumed he was still angry because I got on the bus before.

    "He said, 'I am not going to take you on the bus because you two are a threat.' I realised it wasn't due to me getting on the bus, this may be a racist attack."

    The student said the driver told her and her friend that they were a "threat" to both him and his passengers.

    She asked for his contact details but when he refused she began to film him with her mobile phone and he covered his face with a magazine.

    "I said, 'it's OK for you to cover your face on my recording but it's not OK for my friend to cover her face out of choice?'

    "There was no point arguing with him, we got off the bus and by then my anger turned into emotion. I stood there and my gut reaction was to cry."

    The women complained to another bus driver who offered advice on where to complain.

    However Atoofa, who had her face covered by the veil, said she hoped the driver would be educated about why women wear the traditional Islamic dress, rather than being sacked.

    "I think more than anything, I would like him to understand why we wear it and I think I would like an apology," she added.

    "I think being sacked is a whole other league. I want him to sit there and talk to me about why he felt the way he felt and maybe to understand where we are coming from."

    A spokesperson from the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB) said it could not comment on individual cases, but added it was "deeply concerned".

    "Such incidents are sadly becoming more common," the spokesperson said.

    "They have been fuelled against the climate of increasing anti-Muslim rhetoric and hostility, in particular on the part of sensationalised stories by the media, demonising Muslims in the eyes of the wider public.

    "The MCB will continue to raise the issue with the relevant authorities as well as community and political leaders."

    It advised all victims to report incidents to the police.

    A spokesman for bus operator Metroline said: "We take this very seriously and will make a thorough investigation into the allegations as a matter of urgency.

    "However, Metroline can unequivocally state that such views would not be representative of the company in any way and that we are committed to respecting equality and diversity for all."

    Metroline operates the service on behalf of Transport for London (TfL), which added it was investigating with the bus firm.

    'Un-British values'

    Earlier this month French MPs voted to ban the wearing of full face veils in public.

    Several other European countries including Spain, the Netherlands and Belgium have debated regulating the use of face covering garments.

    On Sunday Immigration Minister Damian Green said trying to pass a law banning women wearing the Islamic full veil in public would be "un-British" and at odds with the UK's "tolerant and mutually respectful society".

    The comments came after Tory MP Philip Hollobone introduced a private members' bill which would make it illegal for people to cover their faces in public.
  5. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Most of the time infact it is the "choice", hard to know better when your told from an early age what to do, who to dress and how to live.
  6. An Angel in Black

    An Angel in Black Well-Known Member

    I think for once you and I agree, I dont believe in looking down on the bus driver for this decision either, but the majority of times it is the males yes. The women are more often told what they are allowed to do while the males in the family tend to be the the little mother fuckers. It can however be reversed too but... People say racial profiling is wrong, and while it is there are circumstances it is ok in. Its the same as asking the quesiton do you believe in torture? And then asking do you believe in the torture of 1 person to get the information to save 100s if not thousands. Since however I have read up nothing on this article for all I know they had an attack the other day by a muslim on that particular city making them more cautious but I like I said, I didnt read the article so Im not sure why this particular case stuck out, there had to be something else behind it.
  7. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    Sounds like the bus driver has played it wrong and racist which doesn't help our case against the Berkha.
  8. thedeafmusician

    thedeafmusician Staff Alumni

    like i said before, i have to respectfully disagree. i grew up in a migrant neighbourhood, and a majority of our neighbours were of a muslim background. most of the neighbourhood kids did not wear a hijab or niquab or anything like that, although a handful did once they started to get older. alternatively, there were also plenty of kids who wore a hijab as a kid and then when they became older they stopped wearing one. after meeting their parents, i can easily vouch for all of them and say that it was the CHILD's choice and NOT the parent's, as to what she wishes to wear. all of the mothers wore a hijab or a niqab, but they didn't force it onto their children. neither did the fathers, they left it up to the child to decide.

    i am not going to deny that sometimes it ISN'T the choice of the child. i know of one family who i grew up with who i know for certain forced their children to cover up. but you must remember, this was just ONE family. i grew up in a neighbourhood surrounded by muslim families. but, there will always be families like that, no matter what background you come from.

  9. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    If I were the bus driver, I'd say, lady, if you want on the bus, you gonna have to take off that garb. Little honey, if you want a ride on my bus, I'm gonna hafta see some curves, tootsie.

  10. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    I wonder what the reaction would've been if he had denied a pair of black women. They're just as much of a threat. Or Asians, why not them? Oh, wait, yes, all muslims are evil terrorists and the veils are there to cover their satanic features so they can get to our children to eat them, right? Groan.

    Oh, and pit, sexual harrasment. Haha.
  11. Things

    Things Well-Known Member

    Are you suggesting that he should be both sexist and racist, instead of just racist?

    Pit: LOL! I wonder how she'd react to that?
  12. Stray

    Stray Account Closed

    How was the busdriver been racist? If they come to our country they should live by our rules. It's about time we stopped letting them walk all over us. I bet i'll be called "racist" now LOL.
  13. Hache

    Hache Well-Known Member

    What rule?

    The only way this could be by our "rules" is if he required to see her face for identification, instead, based on what is said in the first post he wouldn't let her on because of a threat to passengers? What threat??? A bomb under that Berkha?? There could be a bomb in a bag or under a jumper, anything. Perhaps the women might try and take over the bus because she is muslim?? She's wearing a Berkha and we all know about all the crimes committed by Berkha wearers, not.

    As I said on the first page, the bus driver played this wrong, he played it so badly his motives appear race related.
  14. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    How do you know that they are not Asians or African????

    Most of the Muslims in this country (the UK) are Asians from Pakistan or Bangladesh anyway or Somalis from Africa. I would say about probably 80% of Muslims in this country are from those regions. So I would have thought it was most likely that they would be either Asian or African!!!! They could be white but there are relatively few white converts in the UK or they could be from the Middle East but they are also quite a small minority in this country as far as I know.
  15. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    As I said on the first page, the bus driver played this wrong,

    Bus drivers are a law unto themselves as well. Just a few weeks before this we had the Polish bus driver who wouldn't a mother and son on the bus because he was wearing an England football t-shirt, which the Polish driver found "offensive".

    In his defence, the only thing I can think is that he thought the St. George's cross was some sort of neo-Nazi/BNP thing. Rather than just being a t-shirt to support England in the World Cup. Whatever?

    It will have kicked off because of the trying to get on the bus before he was ready. I've done that myself without realising --- I didn't understand, they were changing drivers (well, how was I supposed to know!) and I tried to get on and he told me to get off, so I tried again forty seconds later not really understanding and he YELLED at me, "Why can't you just wait five ***** seconds blah blah blah blah blah". I was completely shocked, had no idea what I was supposed to have done wrong - but now I know...

    When they change bus drivers just wait OUTSIDE until they indicate that you are now allowed to process onto the bus..... and don't whatever you do, try and get on before!!!
  16. Krem

    Krem Well-Known Member

    You only need one question mark to mark the sentance as a question. Also, I meant it as 'If he had denied them because they were [race].'.

    And, I'm not sure your post had any point, other than pointing out that, gasp, a muslim might be from Africa. Mind-blowing stuff, to be sure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2010
  17. chjones21

    chjones21 Well-Known Member

    Also, I meant it as 'If he had denied them because they were [race].'.

    You presume that he denied them because they were Muslim but I doubt it, I expect he has Muslims on his bus every single day... rather I would think that he would say he denied them because her face was covered. In the same way a lot of shopping malls etc. will not allow people with "hoodies" up because it obscures their identity. Banks also will not allow motorcyclists in wearing a helmet.

    They consider it a security threat, that doesn't mean they think all bikers are terrorists or bank robbers though.

    In this country, however, the burka is still allowed and so you are at liberty to get on a bus with it even though only your eyes are visible - although I do think the driver is allowed some discretion as to who he lets on a bus anyway, if he thinks they will be a distraction or danger such as a very drunk person can be denied for that reason; or someone with a vicious-looking dog; or even as I have seen myself someone with a Christmas tree as it would cause an "obstruction" (that was on the old buses where you jumped on the back) and it was the conductor who wouldn't let the man stay on the bus so they started having a huge argument and the conductor got so furious he decided to go around to the front of the bus to enlist the driver's help and when he was walking around, the guy with the tree simply double-rang the bell so that the bus driver drove off! (I don't where you live or if you are familiar with the old routemaster system in London)...

    I laughed SO hard, it was just so funny the driver didn't notice at all that the conductor was running after the bus shouting at him to stop and the conductor just got completely left behind .... ! It was like something out of a comedy scene. The guy with the tree stayed on the bus looking very happy with himself --- I got off at the next stop so I never saw how it resolved itself but I suspect the tree guy kept on acting as the conductor and ringing the bell right up until he got home!

    So I think drivers have that discretion, although I think if the driver was to be entirely truthful he didn't let them on the bus because he was irritated by their attitude, rather than anything else! He used the fact that her face was veiled as an excuse, to say she was a security threat, so he didn't have to take them on his bus.

    Anyway, I do think if you come to another country you are simply an oafish, rude lout if you won't respect the mores and values of that country. So equally if someone were to start complaining that they couldn't kiss their boyfriend in public in Saudi Arabia and start insisting that it was racist behaviour against them and their culture --- I would think 'what an idiot' so I think exactly the same of those women who come here and insist on veiling their face although they know, full well, how offensive it is to the majority and how alien it is to the culture of this country. Still, some people are like that.
  18. Rayne

    Rayne Well-Known Member

    Completely agree with the above, very well said.
    I was reading a few days ago about a British woman arrested in Dubai for wearing a bikini in a shopping centre. She only stripped down to her bikini because another (local) woman took offence to her wearing a low cut top and having most of her legs exposed (presumably wearing shorts or a skirt) and basically started telling her off.
    Now I'll admit that stripping down was stupid. But if non-Muslims are expected to respect Muslim values in a largely Muslim country, shouldn't it work both ways?
    It's the same as the Christian nurses who complain about not being able to wear their cross at work. If you don't like it, don't become a nurse, no? I'm a white, teenage girl, born and raised in Britian. I was also raised a Christian, but now follow no particular religion. If I tried to wear a balaclava on a bus, I'd be asked to remove it and not many people would see a problem with that. As far as I'm concerned this should be about equality.
  19. thedeafmusician

    thedeafmusician Staff Alumni

    So, what happens if you come into a country that's almost entirely a migrant population? What's the 'culture' then?
  20. spiritxfade

    spiritxfade Well-Known Member

    Sorry for not addressing the discussion at hand, but I sorta just want to say that I think what the bus driver did was wrong. Most Muslims are not a threat to anyone, no more than any random person you pick off the street. It's just those radical, extremist, militant bastards who give them a bad name.
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