My rant on authority

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by ybt, May 14, 2007.

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  1. ybt

    ybt Guest

    Sorry, I'm not going into religion this time, so we can't fight.

    What, in the world, do we perceive as problems? There are a lot of things I don't have to tell you, except that some of these are obvious... to the public.

    "Freedom of speech" is a subjective term. Well, actually, we need not go too deeply into that. If somebody says don't talk about this, fine, whatever, it's just one person... walk away, or talk about other things with this person and talk about the forbidden subject with some of your other weed smoking... well, depends on your case, strange friends.

    Whoever gave mainstream authority the right to be so constricting? Sorry, no, I should think before asking questions. The police force. Wait, hold on, I said right, not threat.

    Compulsory schooling. "You don't like it, but you have to go." And be miserable for the next 10 years. The version of school I remembered was being forced to go to bed early when I clearly had a different definition of fun, and would wake up groggy early in the morning every day to go to a place where I would be severely depressed. I remember being happier when not in school than in school.

    Some people just refuse to change their minds or even consider changing them.

    SF does this too, which originally sparked the rant, but I'm very, very bad at getting my view across so it ends up being worse than originally planned, but anyway.

    SF refuses to think about their pro-life stance. "I disagree with this." "You're placed Under Moderation, no methods." "By giving out methods I'm not encouraging it. What if I said this is how you kill yourself, but these are the repurcussions which could and probably will occur? Would they care? If no, and they think that their logical decision is suicide, they should be able to do it. If yes, they may be depressed, but they won't kill themselves. And I even gave a method. Am I correct?" "NO METHODS!"

    "Let me try another try at this. I get placed Under Moderation for going overboard on a few occasions. But what if a member of staff does this? What if he insults somebody in a thread whom not only admits some mistakes, but engages in a very polite tone his opinion?" "Yes, but you have to remember that staff are people too. They are only volunteers." "And we aren't?" "If you don't like it, go to another site." "I'm only trying to discuss the merits and drawbacks." "We aren't going to change our rules just because you say so."

    Hey, you know that marijuana? I don't take drugs, and never have, and probably never will. But it's illegal. Why have you decided it's illegal? I don't know. There is always the argument that people are less responsible than you are. There could be road accidents. You know, that is absolutely true. Except this little thing called "alcohol" is not illegal. If you drink and drive, of course, you get a repurcussion. But if you walk around carrying beer just on the street, or whatever, and are over 18, (18? why do you discriminate against youth? do you know how many kids boast about drinking in schools? sorry, it's not fucking helping) it's... slightly less illegal. And unless cars are equipped with a special breathalyzer, drinking and driving shall continue. I'm sorry, marijuana smokers, if anything, drive SLOWER. It's not the sort of thing to be a PUBLIC SERVICE VIDEO, whilst alcohol is promoted in extravagent commercials.

    I could go on, but you get the point. If this gets approved, which I hope it will, I see nothing bad about it.
  2. I am prolife in general, particularly prolife on suicide

    People that support suicide are worse than people who support abortion or eutanasia

    let the pro-death have their site, if they want to, tho im totally against it, and id love for those sites to be banned and for those people who start them to go to hell

    but well sure as hell have our own prolife website

    everyone wants to live, lets focus on helping people to live, instead of helping them to die

    anyone that doesn't like this site is free to go on pro-death sites
  3. ybt

    ybt Guest

    why are we worse than people that support abortion or euthanasia? if you're in pain with no hope of getting better for whatever reason, wouldn't you rather it ended than go on another 5 years? with abortion, (TRIGGERING SUBJECT COMING UP) rape can happen, (END OF TRIGGERING SUBJECT) and so it's an accident, and there are other reasons as well. don't be so quick to judge.

    you contradict yourself... you say the pro-suicide sites are allowed to have their sites yet you want them to be banned and the people sent to hell... why should we go to hell for having an opinion? this isn't discrimination against blacks, it's not starting a war, it's actually usually a compassionate act to suggest to someone that suicide is an option.

    yes, you can have your pro-life website, i just get pissed off that it has never been considered that much and those who bring it up always get this reply "if you don't like it, leave", treating them like a child, which they're probably not.

    and you just proved my point. i know very well that i'm free to go on other websites. what makes you think you saying that is going to bring any revelation to me? i sit here presenting my point in the best way i can think of and you come up with "if you don't like it, leave". please don't do that.
  4. ybt

    ybt Guest


    (must be at least 5 characters? what the hell?)
  5. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

  6. Abacus21

    Abacus21 Staff Alumni

    Think of it this way, Ybt: If we stop to think, consider, and therefore allow pro-death discussion on here, then are we fulfilling this site's aim to be a place for support, pro-life support, for people who are suicidal? No.

    Are we breaking the law if we do that? Yes.
    Will, in that case, this site be shut down and many many people lose their way, and possibly suicide? Yes.

    If we become a pro-choice / pro-death site, which we would do if we knowingly allowed pro-death chat and pro-death methods on here, we would become another of those illegal, horrible sites, which rob people the chance to get better.

    Does that answer your question as to why we're so hot on not allowing methods here, and how people who discuss methods and are overly argumentative about our pro-life stance, get put under moderation?

    It is, IMO, for the safety of the other members here.
  7. I guess that the crux of it is that this IS a pro-life forum - no single member will change that. The forum is here to SUPPORT people and see them through difficult times and suicidal times. If any stance were taken other than pro-life - then the aims and targets of the site could not and would not be met.

    Giving another individual the methods required to harm themselves is hardly going to help anyone feel better now is it? Our aim here is NOT to give a person the weapons to assault / hurt / kill themselves. Indeed it would be on the wrong side of the law if we did (although that is kind of irrelevant as we don't have these rules and structures in place ONLY for that reason - the chief reason is that this is pure and simply a SUPPORT and PRO-LIFE site).

    All individuals have a right to live. All individuals have a right to not want to die every living second of their life. All individuals deserve the right to receive the maximum amount of support to enable them to start 'living' again. PLEASE - allow this site to function in the way that it should and the way that is beneficial to people. Aggravating people really doesn't help.

  8. ybt

    ybt Guest

    actually, more people get put under moderation because of attacks, not being argumentative over pro-life stance

    by the way, being pro-choice would not "rob people the chance to get better"... in the strictly literal sense yes, if the person did kill himself (or herself, you get the bloody idea), but you can be for suicide and still save a lot of people.

    as for the government thing, you're absolutely right, i searched on google earlier for pro suicide sites just for kicks, found nothing, predictably.

    but then that adds a new flavor to it. yes those people helping other people probably do care, most of them anyway, but it transforms the site into "being supportive of life, no suicide... OR ELSE.". the only reason it's like that is because of a subjective law which somebody passed and it's enforced by lawyers and police force. that's a pretty sad state of affairs.
  9. As I stated in my earlier post - this site exists as it is because of not ONLY law - but because it wants to help people to recover from the situations they find themselves in. If people wish to find methods they can do so - just not here. And the very fact that they came here illustrates that they are often looking / seeking a way to LIVE not die.

    I think there is no more to say about it - it is just the way it is - and for many many people - that works. If I can ever make a difference to ONE person's life - my life has meant something. This site makes a difference to MANY people's lives on a daily basis, and I applaud it for this.

  10. ybt

    ybt Guest

    i'm sorry, but to be honest, you're wording me to be an idiot. let me correct your post:

    "no single member will change that" - this is a valid argument if the government is brought into it, because you can't have one person change it, or else you'd be shut down! a website under fear. if, however, you mean that they rigidly stick to their rules, you're just mentioning that it's a pro-life site and hence it has pro-life rules... duh. i know that. there is such a thing as trying to change them and posting suggestions.

    "then the aims and targets of the site could not and would not be met." - under the current structure. i'm not suggesting they change the rules and still call it pro-life, this is another "duh" moment.

    "Giving another individual the methods required to harm themselves is hardly going to help anyone feel better now is it?" - it could. suicide isn't easy. if you told someone methods but then told them the after effects after a possible failure it would certainly deter them. if you then went on to try and judge their situation concretely, you may solve the problem, same as on this site. suggesting methods doesn't mean somebody's actually going to do it.

    "All individuals have a right to live. All individuals have a right to not want to die every living second of their life. All individuals deserve the right to receive the maximum amount of support to enable them to start 'living' again."

    of course, most of the people don't deserve the situation they're in. did i say that? am i that cruel to suggest most deserve it? all individuals DO have a right to live. they also have a right to think, and thus a right to choose. and yes, i'm fully aware of how likely suicide seems in a moment of desperation

    "PLEASE - allow this site to function in the way that it should and the way that is beneficial to people. Aggravating people really doesn't help."

    i do "allow" it. this is just me arguing the more extreme points of it. even then, it's barely arguing, it's suggesting. and i'm sorry if you feel i'm "aggrevating" people. you've aggrevated me by telling me that. it's an opinion. as long as it doesn't get out of hand, what's the danger?
  11. ybt

    ybt Guest

    firstly, it's a debate. we're not insulting each other (although you simplifying it is really pissing me off because you make it sound like less of an issue however serious or not the issue is), so if you think there's no more to say on it - don't say anything, but my point i find interesting and wish to continue it further.

    by the way, i'm all for helping people, i just don't think the dogmatic removing of one side is the best way to do it.

    "And the very fact that they came here illustrates that they are often looking / seeking a way to LIVE not die."

    yeah, i know, but some still come to a logical conclusion that death is best for them.

    "If people wish to find methods they can do so - just not here."

    TBH, i'm not even sure this should be mentioned here. it gives people the impression that there are foolproof methods, so i'd like this to be removed please
  12. Gosh - you really are out to cause problems aren't you - you sound so angry and mad at the world and people around you - what made you feel like this? Maybe you should concentrate more on these issues than whether you like the stance of a website that has been so kindly set up for people like you and me. Its no use throwing insults at me - I never made it personal. And I'm afraid I'm a bit like a brick wall as far as that kind of thing goes lol.

    You are a VISITOR here at this site. Treat it and its members with respect.


    ps: this is my LAST post on the topic - whatever the reply :)
  13. ybt

    ybt Guest

    where was i 'angry and mad'? i even said in one of my posts 'we're not insulting' - so this also cancels out 'it's no use throwing insults at me'. i see no such 'anger' preventing me from trying to prove your points incorrect.
  14. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    By listing methods of commiting suicide you are morally culpable. Even if you say you don't support suicide.
    Death is way to permenant to be a logical conclusion, in 99% of cases. (I'm on the fence about people with terminal illnesses, some of them are very scary to me. Especailly degenerative neuralogical diseases like Huntington's Disease . . .)

    You talk about freedom of speech, this is a myth. There is no such thing, especially on websites that are run by other people.
  15. ybt

    ybt Guest

    i normally don't support it, no. still though, i agree methods should not be given out on the forums so freely and the mod edit posts ARE necessary here.

    no, freedom of speech exists. i'm not really breaking any rules by debating though, am i?
  16. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

    No you aren't. I was just saying that because it is a myth, a good myth. But a myth nontheless.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm trying to stifle any dialogue.
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