Narcissistic Abuse

[Velveteen Bunny]

My mother is an undiagnosed Borderline and meets some of the criteria for being a Narcissist (I have discussed this at length with my psychiatrist and I have a degree in Psychology). She was extremely verbally and emotionally abusive to my younger brother and I, and physically abusive to him (and slapped me around but nothing major). Despite all this, she was a half-decent mother when I was little, and didn't abandon us and put a roof over our heads until I was 19, so I made the stupid decision in my early 20s to be in touch with her (after a 2-year estrangement). Our family tends to die around 60 but she is now 83 and in good health. We talk a few times a week (she talks my ear off and I hardly say anything). Everything is about her. I feel exhausted after dealing with her and I deeply wish she was not in my life, yet I do care about her and know I would be sorry when she's gone. Damned if I do, and damned if I don't.

This is how I feel about my dad. I love him, but at the same time I hate him. He's the source of so much longing and pain. My mom just passed away (also 83 years-old), and she was a saint to have forgiven him over and over and over again. Have you ever noticed how partners of toxic or mentally ill people end up with cancer, diabetes, or some other life-threatening illness, and die before they should, while the toxic person always seems to live to hearty old age. All of these feelings are cropping up and it's all become confusing and tortuous. I am filled with regrets for my mom and extreme sadness of how our family life was, how hard she worked to provide for us, how she was forced to emotionally abandon us so that she could financially provide for us, how she must have become emotionally numb after being hurt by my dad, philandering (he told her once that he must have had over 100 other women, we were always moving, most likely because he impregnated some woman and wanted to skip town so he wouldn't he held responsible. He was always choosing jobs where he traveled), he beat my brothers until they were bloody when they were growing up. One of my brothers said that when they heard his car in the driveway after a trip, they would panic in fear and run and hide (this was when they were even teenagers). There are many more stories like this in our family history.

 

[Velveteen Bunny]

If it helps anyone, the hardest part is to see you are a narcisst. I went to marriage counseling once years ago and the therapist mentioned it but I blew it off. I pictured a narcisst as a guy that's vain, but that's it. So I didn't get it. Plus, you think you're always right. How could this other person know me? It's tough. So try to explain it in a way that isn't confrontational. Just that we make everything about us, in an unhealthy way. Then we internalize everything and lash out. We see anything that doesn't go our way as an attack on us, and take it personally. I know I was always looking to improve professionally, so perhaps if it had been put to me as a way to improve myself I may have listened. It took me losing everyone close to me to finally realize it was me. Deep down I really wasn't a bad person and now I'm horrified at the way I was. It was just so hard to see. This article may also be helpful How to Handle a Narcissist: What Works and What Doesn’t (webmd.com)

There's a difference between someone who is capable of eventually recognizing that they have narcissistic tendencies (all of us raised in toxic families have these narcissistic fleas that we catch, and over time and through life experience, maturation, and pain, can change out of self-introspection and self-loathing). The difference is, someone who is truly narcissistic (and they rarely get diagnosed because they don't go in for therapy, because they're perfect, right? It's always the other person or the situation that's to blame, never them.) has what's called shallow effect. They still feel the feelings to some extent, but the feeling is very fleeting. So, they feel guilt, but it may be for only 10 minutes, and then the self-preservation kicks in and they will create a story for themselves that they can believe to make themselves feel better, because the hardest thing for them in life is to accept responsibility for their wrongdoings.

 

[anona123]

There's a difference between someone who is capable of eventually recognizing that they have narcissistic tendencies (all of us raised in toxic families have these narcissistic fleas that we catch, and over time and through life experience, maturation, and pain, can change out of self-introspection and self-loathing). The difference is, someone who is truly narcissistic (and they rarely get diagnosed because they don't go in for therapy, because they're perfect, right? It's always the other person or the situation that's to blame, never them.) has what's called shallow effect. They still feel the feelings to some extent, but the feeling is very fleeting. So, they feel guilt, but it may be for only 10 minutes, and then the self-preservation kicks in and they will create a story for themselves that they can believe to make themselves feel better, because the hardest thing for them in life is to accept responsibility for their wrongdoings.

Interesting what you say in the first part - that it's all of us raised in toxic families that can eventually see our fault of narcissism. Why do you say that? My parents fought a lot, likely would have divorced but my dad passed in a car accident before that could happen. I was the classic middle child that was essentially ignored. The other two weren't raised correctly either, babied too much.
I've just been trying to figure out what the hell made me this way.

 

[Anon543]

i live with narcs yet again. the worst is the ones that live in the tent on this property and the next worse is the owner of the property who allows the abuse to happen only to blame me when i open up . im homeless on the streets if i leave, so i'm thinking some days that suicide would be better than homelessness or staying with the abuse. just fed up and done. being treated shitty no matter all that ive done, or whatnot. i am treated like shit and have zero support ever from these people. I have the most education than any on this property yet they treat me like they went past HS though didnt, and me as if i dont have HS diploma, 3 degrees a certificate and bound for a university. Can't win with them. they are right the educated is wrong time and time again.

 

[Cursed712]

So tired of this heart soul mind and body devouring pain. How long can someone stay alive with shit that is way to much for them to be able to bear? Its been years and it just dont get less unbearable. Its not even surviving Im just existing in horrible rotting hell wishing for fucking death or anything to make it finally stop and stay stopped.

 

[Astrid78]

So tired of this heart soul mind and body devouring pain. How long can someone stay alive with shit that is way to much for them to be able to bear? Its been years and it just dont get less unbearable. Its not even surviving Im just existing in horrible rotting hell wishing for fucking death or anything to make it finally stop and stay stopped.

Hope that you are feeling a little better? Here if you would like to talk more about what is going on, if you would like. Hugs @Cursed712

 

[Anon543]

Not liking for any reason other than I feel these exact words 100%. I'm a message away if you want to talk.

 

[Lady Wolfshead]

My narcissistic mother had a large polyp removed that they biopsied and found cancer inside. She has no cancer elsewhere- they told her the polyp had just been around a long time and somehow became cancerous. They removed it via laparascopic (sp?) surgery and all is fine. No chemo or radiation needed.

Now she is calling herself a "cancer survivor" and going on about how she had major surgery... She ALWAYS exaggerates any conditions she has, and dismisses anything anyone else goes through. Really she is as healthy as a horse and I feel despair at the thought of her living much longer (she is 83). I am tempted to move to a distant city just to escape her. But I know the escape is in my mind and I just need to dismiss her from my thoughts.

 

[Cursed712]

Not liking for any reason other than I feel these exact words 100%. I'm a message away if you want to talk.

Same here for you. Thanks.

 

[Cursed712]

Hope that you are feeling a little better? Here if you would like to talk more about what is going on, if you would like. Hugs @Cursed712

I started back at the gym and also added a supplement called black ginger to my repertuar. Feeling a little better already. Hope you are doing ok. Thanks for ur support.

 

[Astrid78]

I started back at the gym and also added a supplement called black ginger to my repertuar. Feeling a little better already. Hope you are doing ok. Thanks for ur support.

Hey no problem, glad to see you are feeling at least a little better, I've been taking vitamins daily for a while now and they really do help.

 

[Velveteen Bunny]

Interesting what you say in the first part - that it's all of us raised in toxic families that can eventually see our fault of narcissism. Why do you say that? My parents fought a lot, likely would have divorced but my dad passed in a car accident before that could happen. I was the classic middle child that was essentially ignored. The other two weren't raised correctly either, babied too much.
I've just been trying to figure out what the hell made me this way.

Some of us can eventually see, some of us can't. I've studied about personality disorders quiet a bit and have read and listened to first-person accounts of people who have grown up in narcissistic type families as well as my own experience and that of my siblings. I've noticed that some become hyper vigilant as children towards the parents so as to avoid getting into trouble or abused. My older brother told me that when he and my other brothers were already teenagers and almost grown, that when they heard my dad's car in the driveway as he came home from a work trip, their first instinct was to run and hide from him because he was a tyrant. I don't remember, because I was still pretty young and I also have blocked out some memories. My dad was also way worse to my brothers than he was to me and my sisters. Hyper-vigilance stays with you the rest of your life and that quality makes a person notice things that someone else wouldn't, and sometimes makes a person paranoid, seeing things that aren't really there. For example, imagining that your partner is flirting with someone when they're actually just being friendly. Hyper-vigilance can also help you to recognize things within yourself, because you feel like you have to be perfect, after a lifetime of trying to please the narcissist parent.

Some of my brothers and sisters have developed unhealthy ways of dealing with CPTSD, like alcohol, food and porn addictions. I'm not sure if they realize this (I think they do on some level), but it's just easier to use addictions as a crutch instead of doing the hard work of examining themselves, forgiving and healing themselves. Living with a cruel parent, that always tells you you are good for nothing and will never be -- their words and voice stay in your head even into adulthood and when you try to become better, that voice crops up and smashes you down again so you feel like you don't deserve anything good in life, why try.

 

[anona123]

Some of us can eventually see, some of us can't. I've studied about personality disorders quiet a bit and have read and listened to first-person accounts of people who have grown up in narcissistic type families as well as my own experience and that of my siblings. I've noticed that some become hyper vigilant as children towards the parents so as to avoid getting into trouble or abused. My older brother told me that when he and my other brothers were already teenagers and almost grown, that when they heard my dad's car in the driveway as he came home from a work trip, their first instinct was to run and hide from him because he was a tyrant. I don't remember, because I was still pretty young and I also have blocked out some memories. My dad was also way worse to my brothers than he was to me and my sisters. Hyper-vigilance stays with you the rest of your life and that quality makes a person notice things that someone else wouldn't, and sometimes makes a person paranoid, seeing things that aren't really there. For example, imagining that your partner is flirting with someone when they're actually just being friendly. Hyper-vigilance can also help you to recognize things within yourself, because you feel like you have to be perfect, after a lifetime of trying to please the narcissist parent.

Some of my brothers and sisters have developed unhealthy ways of dealing with CPTSD, like alcohol, food and porn addictions. I'm not sure if they realize this (I think they do on some level), but it's just easier to use addictions as a crutch instead of doing the hard work of examining themselves, forgiving and healing themselves. Living with a cruel parent, that always tells you you are good for nothing and will never be -- their words and voice stay in your head even into adulthood and when you try to become better, that voice crops up and smashes you down again so you feel like you don't deserve anything good in life, why try.

This is so well stated, so accurate. We were tense when my father was around, tense when he came home. I wasn't as bad but somehow I repeated that. I was never told directly I was good for nothing but was never told anything so still a void. I was too tough on my daughter in sports, or missed assignments, which was a small issue one year. Somehow I made it a large issue.
Sorry to hear you and your siblings went through it. Hopefully all can realize it's an issue and can work on healing.

 

[Aurelia]

The person that I'm dealing with is good at convincing me that his pain is worse than mine, and therefore, matters more than mine does...which I know in the back of my mind sounds stupid, because it's not about the type of pain (and hell, it's not even a goddamned competition FFS, but he makes it into one), but how the person themselves is affected by it.

Narcissists tend to think like children in that sense. If something hurts, they immediately need to make it stop hurting, no matter what it takes and who it hurts along the way. And I know this, but yet, still fall for the bullshit. His pain is all that ever matters, mine doesn't, because his is always worse. And with me having BPD, sometimes I think like a child as well. When I'm in pain badly enough, I make impulsive moves to make it stop...though, I'm not as inclined to hurt others whilst doing so. But more often than not, I think I've "grown up" enough to realize that pain is universal and sometimes I just have to deal with it. So does that automatically make my pain more tolerable? Less worthy of attention or help? Sometimes, that's how it feels...but then I also know that's just him getting into my head...idk.

Sometimes I've been in such unbearable pain that I literally didn't know what the hell to do with myself. I wanted to die, wanted to crawl up a wall, wanted to just lay in the fetal position and cry, wanted to use, and I still dealt with it. So why the hell is his pain more worthy just because he can't do the same?

 

[Velveteen Bunny]

You're right, Aurelia. We are all individuals, with individual experiences all throughout our lives that shape who we are and we are worthy of respect, our feelings are worthy of respect. It's not a competition.

Narcissists are like children, and I guess sometimes, you can understand them and feel compassion for them. It does not mean that that you have to be around them or allow them to mess with your head or your life. Because they are ultimately self destructive, and they will destroy your life, too, if you let them. Just watching my mom and her example... she was a strong Catholic and forgave my dad over and over again and allowed him to come back over and over. I love my dad and feel very sorry for him, but he's self destructive and he destroys anyone who is near him, too. I can't be around him because he lays guilt trips on people and manipulates them into feeling sorry for him, and then he uses them. It's hurts me so much that I could never have the kind of relationship I always wanted to have, that I see other people have, with their fathers. And he hurt my mom so much too, that she couldn't be the person she should have been. She just passed away in December. I was looking at photos of when she was young, and how care-free and sassy she was. She was full of life and joy, and he robbed that from her over years of mental, verbal, physical abuse and abusing us kids.

 

[Velveteen Bunny]

They don't know how to deal with their pain. That's the crux of the matter. They learned from an early age to always blame something or someone else for how they are feeling. It's always someone else's fault, or the situation. They can't accept that they are feeling these feelings and will do anything they can to separate themselves from the pain, which is usually alcohol, drugs, or some other addiction as well as blaming on other people.

 

[Aurelia]

They don't know how to deal with their pain. That's the crux of the matter. They learned from an early age to always blame something or someone else for how they are feeling. It's always someone else's fault, or the situation. They can't accept that they are feeling these feelings and will do anything they can to separate themselves from the pain, which is usually alcohol, drugs, or some other addiction as well as blaming on other people.

Mark Manson explains this whole thing really well...how children and narcissists deal with their pain, and then teenagers and adults also. When I get home later I'll take a picture of the page and show it to you. The book is called "Everything is Fucked: A Book About Hope". Lol...just the title itself got my attention. It's really a great book. Very philosophical.

 

[Velveteen Bunny]

Mark Manson explains this whole thing really well...how children and narcissists deal with their pain, and then teenagers and adults also. When I get home later I'll take a picture of the page and show it to you. The book is called "Everything is Fucked: A Book About Hope". Lol...just the title itself got my attention. It's really a great book. Very philosophical.

Good, I would like to see it. Thanks.

 

[Aurelia]

Good, I would like to see it. Thanks.

I PMed you with them definitely one of my favorite passages. This guy is a freaking genius. I love him.

 

[Aurelia]

It's like I'm a fucking ATM to him...nothing more.

But when I ask for affection, empathy, emotional security...those things are all fucking foreign to him.

He doesn't get that he makes me feel like shit. And I can't make him "get it". I try. Oh, how I try to explain to him what I need from him. That it's a two-way fucking street and he's not the only one hurting. But no matter how much I do try, it's still completely fucking pointless...and it breaks my fucking heart.