First I want to say thanks for the very interesting thread on antinatalism. Great thread, well argued and a strong debating position. The first thing of any interest that has been on here for a long time. Other than that, I was intending to post a reply and I saw the thread was CLOSED! As to why that is, I cannot understand. Suffice to say perhaps the line from Schopenhauer is absolutely right but I would never, myself, take the antinatalist position. In my now defunct reply - actually I am still shocked that someone closed a thread simply because they felt they weren't getting their point across as well as the person they were debating. If one has such a lack of ability to debate, why even read a soapbox thread? Just leave it to those who wish to debate, rather than interfere ineptly then get in a huff and slam the door - that'll show them how intelligent I am - and that I am right! Uh-huh. So in my defunct reply I thought about a third planet - planet Z where there is existence but no concept of pain and pleasure, all is just "sensation" and I was wondering where you would consider that in comparison to Planet Y (nothing existing) and Planet X (existence with pleasure and pain). I am loath to write a long reply because apparently I have stumbled into the soapbox, which is no longer a soapbox! And what is the point of putting these thoughts out there if someone is going to stifle the debate because they just don't get it, and they don't want to hear it anymore because it upsets their world view and therefore they want to put their hands over their ears and go "I can't hear you" to make it all, alright. C'mon moderators. I am shocked. Desperate.