Nice guys finishing last

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by EFromTexas, Jan 23, 2016.

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  1. EFromTexas

    EFromTexas Active Member

    I tried this before and it didn't work so I'll try one more time. Throughout my life I've always finish last with women and alot of them tell me it's because I'm too nice and I'm wondering so am I supposed to be mean call her names disrespect her is that what women want? I was raised with respect so I don't believe in disrespecting women like that. Also heard oh it's not manly when a guy is too nice he's a pushover listen if the situation comes up I'll def. defend my woman by all means so the protection factor is an excuse I think. I've been with a couple of women that said they just got out of bad relationships so I respected that and was there for them then found out my ex was cheating on me and the other woman left me for a bad boy. That's why I'm starting to give up hope on trying to find a woman and it doesn't help I'm a virgin too not because of religion but because I can't find a good woman. Can anyone and I mean anyone shed any kind of light or support to me because I feel like I'm going to be single for a long time and I don't want it to end this way. Thanks.
     
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  2. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    I don't agree with the "nice guys finish last" thing or that women don't like nice guys. I think that people get confused between "being nice" and lacking self assurance. You definitely should not call a woman (or anyone else for that matter) mean names and dis-respect them - that isn't attractive and any woman who 'goes for that' probably has quite a lot of issues that they need to address.

    I am not trying to dismiss the "too nice" thing out of hand because I have heard it too many times not to realise that there is something there - but I don't think that what it is, is anything about being nice. I think it is that nice is synonymous with a reluctance to 'take control' of the situation. The 'nice guy' doesn't ask the woman out to dinner in the first 20 minutes of talking to her - he talks to her for weeks and tries to 'show' her that he wants to take her to dinner by doing nice things, bringing her coffee, listening to her problems - whatever else. The confident (or 'not nice') guy asks her out as soon as he decides he might be a bit interested and will decide over dinner if he is more interested instead of biding his time, because he isn't worried about hurting her feelings if he decides later he isn't interested.

    I am not sure if I am making any sense. I don't think it is about nice or not nice, I think it is about taking action or not taking action.
     
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  3. EFromTexas

    EFromTexas Active Member

    Yes you made sense to a degree and I thank for responding but here's what I don't understand. That guy you explained above is def. me is that going to keep me single? In my opinion I think it goes both ways I'm used to doing all the action why can't a woman give men a break once in a while it isn't always about y'all too. Then once we show that we care it comes off as clingy and unattractive? I'll never understand and that's part of the reason why I've remained single because of the mind games I get played all the time. Ok in your opinion what can I do to stop finishing last all the time?
     
  4. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    If you are the guy that spends weeks being "nice" to the person you are attracted to (fetch coffee, fix things, listen to their problems etc) then I do think you are going to struggle. I am not saying some girls don't like that - I am sure they do - but I think that this is where you are causing yourself a problem to some degree. Everyone gets rejected far far more than they get a positive reaction. 9 times out of 10 the "confident 'not nice'" guy gets turned down, but he doesn't care because he hasn't invested weeks or months being 'nice' to this girl in the hopes she will fall in love with him before he ever has to ask her out. He has thought "I could maybe like this girl" and he has asked her out and if she says no he has maybe invested a day or two at most and he can move on. He might ask out a different girl tomorrow or next week.

    I think that you feel like you finish last and feel hurt because you invest weeks or months in someone, falling for them more and more in that time, without ever finding out if they were attracted to you in the first place. So you waste all that time - weeks and months (and sometimes years I have seen) waiting for a girl to fall in love with you instead of finding out on day 1 or 2 that for whatever reason she is not interested and moving on to the next possibility.

    I think what you need to realise is that the "not nice" guys get rejected 100 times more than the nice guys - just the nice guys are playing with far lower numbers so they, in the end, have less success. Its like buying one lottery ticket instead of a thousand.

    Girls don't think it is "all about them" at all - but you are saying she should give you a break and what you really mean is that she should do the part you don't want to / can't do - the "I like you lets go out" part - you are being nice to her in the hopes that this is where you will get to.

    To stop finishing last - move faster and play with far higher numbers. That is really the best advice I have.
     
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  5. EFromTexas

    EFromTexas Active Member

    Very interesting ok thanks for being honest for saying I'm going to struggle and it's the truth because I've been struggling with this for far too long and it's causing me to not be as confident and I'm a very confident guy don't get me wrong at least I think I am but it frustrates me when like you said I am the man that waits because I've been done wrong too many times by most women my whole life and so I usually feel them out for a while like you said until I'm more comfortable knowing who they are. Yes I know rejection happens but when you get rejected multiple times it seems like it's a on going cycle like a mouse in in a wheel just keeps going and going. Now explain how is listening to her problems being understanding is going to cause problems should I act like I don't care what she has to say? Should I ignore her feelings and just tell her to shut up is that what women want? Like I told the last girl sorry I'm not like that and she moved on like the others I was with. In my opinion we honestly do finish last and that's ok maybe I'll find a good woman in the future. Moving faster so your saying being more honest and upfront with women? Usually when I do that I get judged shut down talked back too when I do then I come off as the bad guy and give off a bad vibe I don't know it sucks it's like I try to stand up for myself I'm doing too much if I sit there and let it go I'm being a pushover seems like it's never a win for me. I'll never understand it isn't easy.
     
  6. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN

    I have no way to avoid rejection and being shut down by women, but I will say this - if a woman is going to judge you and be rude to you when you ask her out, wouldn't you rather know that is what kind of person she is before you waste weeks on her?

    Don't ignore her feelings or be rude to her - just don't put yourself in a position where you are attracted to her and you haven't put your cards on the table before it gets to that point. To be a little uncharitable to women for a second, but if she is getting all the "boyfriend stuff" (support, listening to her problems, doing stuff for her) without having to be in the relationship then that is similar to the "why buy the cow if you get the milk for free" thing that girls get told about giving men sex before they are officially together. Its a crappy attitude but sometimes you have to accept that social attitudes are occasionally crappy.

    How about you try giving yourself a 1 week limit. You have 1 week to get to know a girl, talk to her some, decide about her, and if you still like her after that time then ask her out. If she is rude and judgmental then you haven't wasted months on her and you are better off. No woman wants to be told to shut up and not listened to, but don't put yourself in a position where you are free therapist. If you give it a week, still want to ask her out, and she says no, then yes she loses the right to your time and effort UNLESS you decide you want her as a friend only and you can be honest with yourself that you are investing in her only as a friend.
     
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  7. EFromTexas

    EFromTexas Active Member

    Very interesting advice thanks alot Freya this helped. They say to always be yourself therefore you will know if she is there for you or not and it sucks because I've been myself my whole life and it worked out a couple of times but lately in my life it hasn't but I won't give up even though I say I do but I really don't. Now the free therapist part you mean try not to agree with everything she says? Pretty much voice my opinion and say what I feel? Usually I don't but it backfires and ruins my chances but I guess that's the risks I have to take huh?
     
  8. Raphael1

    Raphael1 Well-Known Member

    basically men are desperate these days cause for every 1 woman, there is generally 200 men lining up waiting to date her. And that is an average looking one. This society is basically wrecked. So it's pointless. If you are attractive you will get a date, if you are ugly you won't. The rest is pretty much details.

    I don't think the problem is being too nice. But you will find if you get rich, automatically your dating problem will be solved. Remember women are shallow and illogical, and men are desperate for sex, and also have no morals. So i don't blame you for wanting to give up. I'd give up too but I don't want the satisfaction of any enemies knowing they outlived me, if your alive it's still better than being dead.
     
  9. Petal

    Petal SF dreamer Staff Alumni SF Supporter

    That's kind of insulting don't you think? The serious boyfriends I have had in my life were not rich or good looking, average looking at best. I could turn around and say men are shallow, when i was a normal weight I was asked out by countless of men, literally countless, now that I am over weight I cannot even get a date. Remember not ALL women are shallow and illogical.
     
  10. Raphael1

    Raphael1 Well-Known Member

    Like I said, men are chasing sex, that's why they were asking you out, They really don't care. There is hoards of them trying to get a chick. it's fairly pathetic. Women don't realize they can control men by this alone, but when they do realize it, <Mod edit - extremely rude>

    I don't really know why anyone would want to date these people that are in our society, they just are really low act kind of people. All they do is go into bars and drink. it's no wonder people want to kill themselves lol
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2016
  11. just_some_guy

    just_some_guy Member

    It's not like we're all only chasing sex. Some of us want relationships too. It's just so competitive out there. Nice guys finishing last? Soon the phrase will be changed to, "Nice guys never finish."
     
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  12. NYJmpMaster

    NYJmpMaster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Maybe is not only sex but always seems to be a lot of issue with "friend zone" and other forms of relationships being dismissed as little or no real value. While there is a lot of very valid desire for an intimate relationship, I would point out that women are constantly lamenting the fact that it is impossible to find a nice guy and that all the good guys/nice guys are already taken. This makes clear the real issue is simply in either communication or in a difference of opinion about what a nice guy really is....
     
  13. True-Lee

    True-Lee Well-Known Member

    I really do not believe that nice Guys Finish Last, I also do not believe that Only the Bad Guys get women! I saw a recent Movie where this Young man was "Friends" with this young woman, This Young man Had asked a mentor why all The Nice People seem to care about people that really don't care about them and they keep dating or go out with the same Type Person, His Mentor told him we tend to attract the type of Person we feel we deserve. If You or anyone keep getting the same result using the same Methods and keep attracting the same type of person, Do You Really Want to continue doing things The same way? I think that some people tend to do that, Not a judgement Just an observation.
     
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