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No options: I think the time is here.

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Durzo1259, Nov 2, 2014.

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  1. Durzo1259

    Durzo1259 Member

    Well I've soldiered on through 29 years - probably more than most would have made it - but I don't think I can keep deluding myself into believing I'll one day live a life where every day isn't some horrible ordeal I have to slog through. I don't want to condone suicide for a general audience, I'm just saying everything seems to indicate that it's the most logical choice for me.

    I did a thorough search, found the appropriate tools and put lots of thought into a method with guaranteed success (of course I'm not explaining that here); have numbed myself with many substances so I can calmly, objectively figure out all the details, not be distracted by pain, and of course.... in the name of objectivity which I so revere, post here to see if anyone might have a thought/perspective I haven't considered.

    If anyone actually has a thought on how this life might be worth living, I'd seriously be grateful. I don't want to die - face eternal oblivion - but the suffering far outweighs my mental threshold to tolerate it, and it's become more than evident that my family resents me for being such a burden over the years. I actually felt overwhelmed with endorphins (that's unique) as I held the tool and finally resolved to do it.

    In summary:

    I'm 29 years old, been physically debilitated since injuring my spine (neck and back both) at 16. I'm on disability, living with my parents because I can't endure the pain of day-to-day living chores like cooking & cleaning... most of the time (oh yes, I have tried). The pain gets worse and worse over the years, I've probably seen 120% of all the doctors in Canada. It's simply AMAZING how none of them look at it like a biological, scientific puzzle - put a real concerted effort into fixing anything - instead just lazily lining up symptoms with the medical cook-book, then shrugging their shoulders and going "I dunno, you'll just have to deal with it".

    Oh and of course now my provincial government went crazy with banning almost everyone from narcotic painkillers - which I've been on for 7 years - so now after the hell of opiate withdrawal (still shaking the final bits), I often collapse on the floor in pain just walking to the kitchen.

    Doesn't matter though. Every doctor, every specialist, every policy maker.... are 100% INDIFFERENT.

    My whole family has alienated me because they're just sick to death of so many hopeless years of dealing with my pain and being crippled. All my friends have permanently fallen out with me, gradually getting more and more angry with me for failing to create a life - blaming me for just not having the initiative to get better - despite my *many* attempts at college, work, socializing.... all of which I couldn't keep up under all the pain.

    I also have Aspergers, though I've trained and made exceptional progress at initial social-interaction, most people see me as a charming nice guy. But developing a deep, long-term relationship... I can't seem to figure out what to do. Never had any sexual interaction in my entire life, and despite naturally desiring that, I panic and bolt when the opportunity has occasionally presented itself. Mainly because - as sometimes happens with autism - I have super-human senses of smell, touch and hearing, and the thought of all that physical contact just overwhelms me.

    There's undoubtedly scientific and physical training methods that could fix any of this - science can do anything really, if you put your mind to it - but I lose the ability to research/learn more every year as the pain saps my life-force away.

    I'm tired.... I'm so god damn tired of hurting, being rejected, isolated, bored to death as I watch my dreams of bio-chemical medical research fly by. I'm tired of feeling strong affections and love for people, but not being able to show it as humans would understand it... so they think I don't possess it.

    I'm ready to go. It's the last thing I can focus on that induces euphoria. I hate what it'll do to my family, but I'm not so sure any more that it'll outweigh what I'll do to them in the end by staying alive.

    Thank you so much for reading.
  2. thomas_tucker

    thomas_tucker Member

    It sounds like you are in a lot of pain both physical and psychic. I'm sorry to hear that. I've known many people who have been in constant physical pain and it's no picnic. I am not sure if you've tried it but i know two people who have had debilitating pain and have found relief using a neurostimulator implant to block the pain. I am not sure if you've considered it but it completely changed their lives and again FWIW i think it may work really well for some or not at all for others but it is an option to consider.

    I am not sure what it's like to have asperger's but from what you describe it sounds very alienating. Have you thought about going to support group. Do you think if you felt a little less pain and had a little more social interaction that life could be worth living? I would also say it is very difficult to be objective when one is in so much pain. It is more likely that one would make a choice to reduce their pain and find reasons to support that outcome.

    Why is life worth living......I am not sure that anyone can answer this question convincingly since it is very subjective. A better question is what would make life worth living to you. Would being in less pain physically and less alienated emotionally make life worth living? If so, both may be possible. Also I might point out that on the one hand you see that your family sees you as a burden but on the other hand you say they would be upset if you did end your life. I would challenge your perception that they see you purely as a burden and that they would be happy to see you gone.

    I am not sure if any of this helps and hopefully none of what I said hurts. I can see you are in a lot of pain, and I hope that before you consider checking out that you really do look at the alternatives. Many people here can offer support and different perspectives. You have made it this far and that is an accomplishment in of itself, maybe with time you could get to a point in life where you find it worth living.
  3. K8E

    K8E Well-Known Member

    You are obviously in a lot of pain and have thought deeply about suicide. I also think that people have the right to take their own lives and that it can be a logical choice. It is an act of autonomy in the face of meaningless suffering. You said that you wondered if there were reasons to not to kill yourself that you hadn't thought of. Here are three that I wonder whether you have considered:

    Other people, strangers to you will have to deal with the consequences of your suicide: those that find you, those that collect your body, those that carry out the post-mortem, the police, the funeral directors, the journalists. Consequences of witnessing or dealing with suicide include PTSD, nightmares, drug and alcohol misuse and family breakdown, job loss and increased risk of suicide themselves. When I think about putting that burden onto others it helps me to live another day.

    There is an increased risk of suicide amongst family and friends and this crosses the generations too. Even reported suicides increase the number of suicides in the subsequent days and weeks. This is why in the UK we have guidelines for reporting suicides. I don't want to feel responsible for increasing the risk of those around me.

    Suicide imposes a unique burden on the family and friends. Grief is complicated by both guilt and anger. Some suicidologists consider suicide to be an act of aggression not just towards the self, but also towards those around you. Suicide can be committed as a way of obtaining revenge against those who you feel have failed you. If you read the books, journal articles and discussion threads on forums for so called 'survivors' they often feel attacked by the suicide and consumed by rage. Neither of these feelings are considered 'appropriate' towards the dead so people struggle on burdened by these feelings for the rest of their lives. This is the case no matter what a letter says, if there is one. I think that this consideration alone outweighs the perceived burden on them of staying alive.

    You sound like a highly intelligent, sensitive and deep thinking person and we need people like you around.
  4. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Seeing is Believing Forum Pro SF Supporter

    Dealing with the physical condition you have isn't easy but can you walk though? There are many that's stuck in a wheelchair that would trade places with you with pain and being able to walk. Pain is not easy to deal with it is impressive you lasted this long.

    Just saying suicide isn't the answer though it seems like it.
  5. K8E

    K8E Well-Known Member

    I should also say that I have chronic pain too. Distraction helps me, plus meditation, yoga and walking (when my plantar fasciitis isn't too bad). I know that you weren't asking for help with your pain but there are ways to cope if you choose them. The kind of discipline it takes to survive as long as you have could also be used to cope with your pain and other problems.
  6. Durzo1259

    Durzo1259 Member

    EDIT: I forgot to mention I got some pretty cool news today. I've had some degree of PTSD - flashbacks and whatnot - from this random lunatic meth-head who tried to kill me with a bayonet 1 1/2 years ago. Then he actually spotted me 3 other times and psychotically went after me those times too! No idea who he was, but he was convinced in his insane mind that we had a vendetta. Anyway..... 2 days ago he stabbed and killed someone on a bus - totally random - and is now in prison for murder. I feel terrible for the victim, but admittedly somewhat-elated to know that psycho is behind bars and didn't just get away with it all!

    WOW.... I have to say I'm really impressed by how intelligent and insightful this community is. I expected the same old useless crap you get from calling suicide hotlines where all they do is go "Mmmm hmmmm, that must be really hard". I'm sure that's helpful in its' own right, but I see problems as mechanical puzzles to be worked out.

    That being said, I'm now going to drop a reply to you all, as all your points are worthy of consideration. For now I feel like there's needles in every bone and it's hell, so I did some trapezia trigger-point Lidocaine injections, then some IM injections of Testosterone-Cypionate to increase pain threshold and go into the warrior mind-state I'm going to need in the next few days, where I'll be hitting up doctors and (diplomatically/forcefully) MAKE them take action by pushing the solutions myself.

    Amazing thing I found out today: my neck surgery (radio-electro facet joint rhizotomy) was cancelled for the 3rd time due to "equipment failure". My sister is a nurse in the neuro-science ward there, and she found out the real truth: they're simply blocking this world-renowned, innovative neuro-surgeon from doing this any more because it's not considered proven enough. Things like this make me feel like becoming a very selective terrorist at times.

    This is also my biggest incentive right now: I was focused on researching bio-chemistry, but maybe I need to fight through to become a doctor who actually puts major time and scientific theory into fixing my patients.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2014
  7. Durzo1259

    Durzo1259 Member

    Thomas_Tucker: Thank you. I'm surprised I actually forgot about neuro-stimulator implants (read about that YEARS ago), and that's one of the ideas I'm now going to bring with me in my arsenal. If I recall correctly, they implant a device that stimulates the Pariaequeductal Grey Matter below the Mesencephalon to release Encephalons, which are endogenous endorphines 10x stronger than standard endorphines, immediately at the site of the "Spinal Pain Gateway". I can't remember, but does it still inevitably lead to the same opioid tolerance by MU1 down-regulation caused by standard narcotic painkillers? If this whole paragraph made no sense I really apologize, I just don't know how I could discuss it in more layman's terms. That's one of the symptoms of Aspergers actually: a very narrow personal ability to express and understand things outside specifically-conditioned semantics.

    Thank you - and I mean more seriously than you know - THANK YOU, for seeing me as a human being despite being high-functioning Autistic. So many people have this stupid-ass idea that Aspergers is just like being an unfeeling sociopath. Autistic partial-psychopathy does sometimes happen, but roughly half of us (including me) have an overwhelming sense of Affective Empathy - concern for others' well-being (even strangers) and love for those close - but we have severely-impaired Cognitive Empathy: the ability to read others, understand what's socially-appropriate, and console others even though we want to.
  8. Durzo1259

    Durzo1259 Member

    KBE: That's really cool that you respect people's right to die when the situation is - sadly - appropriate to exercise that right. I hate this "Never the Answer" stuff; there are no absolutes in life.

    I have considered the problem of finding my body: that's why I've set out a place in the wilds where the animals can dispose of the remains, and at the very least if somebody does find me, I don't expect cops and morticians to be all that upset about this nobody in the community.

    But you're right about the damage to my family and I really can't rationalize that it'll do less harm; I just also sometimes feel entitled to not have to endure infinite suffering for everyone else's benefit. But my brother actually broke away from his alcoholism and replaced it with being an exercise fanatic, so I suppose there's no getting around the fact that I'd drive him right back into a bottle. I don't know what would happen with my dad; he internalizes everything until he loses it now and again and goes after one of us with a baseball bat, then I have to turn on the Jiu Jitsu and Aikido training to disarm him (those martial arts are what crippled me too, ironically). I have no physical strength to speak of right now, but quickly-applied leverage and evasion tactics are surprisingly effective, even against a former heavy-weight boxer like my dad. Ugh.... sorry, off topic, but I can never talk to him about *anything* and I still get a lot of flashbacks to this giant, strong, heavy-weight boxer of a dad going nuts and trying to kill me. I've actually had a statistically-improbable number of incidents where lunatics tried to kill me, but for some reason I'm naturally-adept at physical evasion.
  9. Durzo1259

    Durzo1259 Member

    Thank you, but I've never understood the concept of feeling better about someone else having it worse.... that just makes me feel worse! But I also get your meaning that there is real potential to become physically strong, capable, and pain-free(ish) -- I actually accomplished this about 7 years ago - got ripped with muscle - and had almost no pain. It's just harder than ever now that my disks have degenerated so far.
  10. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I am not going to throw out random ideas to look into for back and spinal pain because as many years as you have been dealing with this it would be like throwing darts blindfolded to hit upon something that - might be the first try might be the 1000th, but there are a huge number of interventions and even if they do not have the ability to fix the disk or vertebrae they certainly have the ability to do mechanical spinal implants for pain control.

    You have some major disadvantages when it comes to cutting edge medicine when working in a socialized medicine area where everything is a cost benefit analysis and requires it to be cost effective for a big enough percentage of people to be worth the investment in the technology - plus the Doctors that are true specialists seldom decide to stay in public controlled wage sector (not due to desire to be rich as most claim - but due to disgust at having requests for equipment denied due to costs benefit ratios).

    Having dealt with chronic debilitating pain for 5 years myself I do have a fairly good understanding of the psychological effects of dealing with it long term, and the frustration of being shuffled from specialist to specialist while fighting our own travesty of medicine and cost benefits with insurance companies. Here the issue is more along the lines there are treatments available but getting the insurance companies to go with one can be a huge hurdle (made 500x worse in the last year by obamacare so now the government has legislated what needs to be covered or not so there is far less appeal process and arguing with state insurance boards ends with a look at a document drafted by politicians and not medical doctors).

    All that said, if you would like to PM me with some specific details of what type of issue it is, I would be happy to compare that to some of the things have tried and researched and maybe give some ideas on directions to look (I have done a gazillion medications, narcotic pain control, acupuncture, nerve center botox injections, etc). There are also some programs for where Canadians are allowed to come across to US specialist depending how far you are from the border and major medical centers that may be a possibility if you are in an area where you can show need and simply a lack of facilities.

    Keep looking and fighting for a Dr that will help you and a system that will make it possible to take advantage of that help- you are correct in saying simple biological puzzles like pain treatment should be solvable if it is not looking for them to cure a disease or let you walk again by regenerating a spine but simply to eliminate the pain with a known cause and location as a starting point.
  11. K8E

    K8E Well-Known Member

    You may be surprised by the basic humanity of the majority of those working in this area. Sure, there is a common gallows humour but this is usually when around others. In the still small hours of the night many of them will lie awake and think about what they have seen and dealt with and what this means.

    Here is a brief piece of research regarding the effect on police officers: http://escholarship.umassmed.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1049&context=pib

    Yes, I understand what you're saying, but it isn't 'infinite' and 'benefit' is not the same as preventing suffering. Benefit to me speaks of something in addition to what is already in existence. So others are not 'benefitting' from your decision not to kill yourself; the outcome is preventing their increased suffering. And I happen to agree with you that sometimes the suffering of an individual is enough to justify suicide. This includes emotional as well as physical pain.

    I hope you have a sense of humour. The irony is very funny don't you think? I have a sudden death syndrome, for which I am treated at great expense to the NHS and yet I am often suicidal....go figure.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2014
  12. thomas_tucker

    thomas_tucker Member

    Sorry it took me awhile to respond. I am new to the site and only visit every so often. I am glad to hear that you are considering other options. I think social isolation can in many ways be just as painful as physical pain or better put, physical pain can lead to social isolation which only doubles the hurt that you feel. I would say finding a supportive community can make a big difference in the way you feel. It feels good to have people that can validate how you feel and what you are going through. It sounds like you are a smart kid and from your post it seems like there are things that you want out of life namely social connections and the ability to manage your pain. I am sure you have worked towards both goals and feel frustrated and hopeless since you have not been able to get where you want to be. From what you posted online I can tell that you have the ability to relate to people, perhaps it is just more difficult for you in person. I think going with one's strength it makes sense to find an online community where you feel accepted and validated. Once you do find that some of your social and pain management needs are being met you may be in a better position to question in an unbiased manner whether or not life is worth living.
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