No point in life if I can't feel love? (Psychopathy)

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by txx, Aug 25, 2012.

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  1. txx

    txx Member

    This may be long and confusing but oh well. All my life I've never had a single friend, never enjoyed socialising, always hoped I'd find someone who I "clicked" with and would be able to talk to and enjoy being with, but to no avail.

    Fast forward to 3-months ago, I "met" someone online. At first it was so comfortable... we talked for hours... then it went sour. I started to avoid him as I had nothing to say. In real life I literally cannot speak unless spoken to (asked a logical question). For some reason I'm incapable of conversation, even with my own family, I'm silent. No matter who the person is, there is nothing in my mind. It has ended up that I am basically ignoring him, except for the odd few words. I behaved disgustingly and feel very little remorse. I wish I could feel something, ANYTHING. Instead I just push and push and push to see what peoples boundaries are, and they eventually leave me.

    I have come to the conclusion that I must be missing something in my brain - do I have psychopathic tendancies? I admittedly am good at manipulating people. I'm highly intelligent. In all my life I don't think I have ever felt "love" for anyone, even people who clearly love me and would do anything for me (my parents namely). Perhaps my lack of empathy is the reason why I feel I have nothing to say to anyone? I don't feel the need to share my thoughts... or perhaps I just don't have any thoughts at all. I have absolutely zero ability to communicate verbally and as everything in life revolves around communication, I cannot see a future.

    People cannot understand how someone's mind can be blank. Completely blank. They think I'm rude or just inexperienced at talking, but the honest truth is that I have nothing. The only thing I enjoy in life is food and sleep. I have read that this is another sign of psychopathy - only basic needs are important.

    I sit on the sidelines of life watching people enjoying things and I can't understand what they are enjoying at all. It's as though I'm encased in a glass bubble, walking around in a whole different world to the one everyone else experiences. All these people around me converse, they laugh, they share, they love. I can't. I'm sick with jealousy when I see couples in love. I can't feel happiness for anyone. All I feel is a burning feeling in the pit of my stomach when I hear of people getting married, having children, etc. It will never happen to me, as even though I had the opportunity to be with the most beautiful kind man there ever was, I could not feel anything for him. I only longed for physical connection - I could not envisage myself being able to hold a conversation or enjoy activities with him. I have never done these things with anyone, never enjoyed a holiday or being with another human being.

    Following this realisation I see no way forward for me. I have tried to cognitively empathise and think of things to say on the rare occassion that people talk to me, but I soon kill the conversation. I seem incapable of helping anyone, even though I have tried, and I want to be able to do something for someone. I'm cold and dead behind the eyes.

    Basically I am outright admitting that I do not care for anyone except myself so I do not expect anyone to empathise with me. I feel my own sadness, and I can see the strain that my behaviour is putting on my family. I have put them through hell for years with my constant avoidance and lies, yet they continue to see me as a nice person, and I continue to put my own needs first and disregard their pain. They continue to support me. I wonder why? Is that what love is like? I could not do that for another person. I don't have it in me.

    I feel I should leave them to get on with their lives. I see the connection and warmth they have for each other and I am not part of that, even though they see me as decent. They would be better without me, but mainly I feel that I would better off out of here. I don't think I can last another week in this state. All I do is wake up, think about suicide, eat, pop a few pills, read up on various medical conditions, and then sleep again. Sleep is the only thing that I enjoy. I see death as a long sleep and I do not fear it anymore, in fact, the thought and planning of it calms me.

    I'm not sure what the point of this is, I guess I mainly just want to vent, and I've never truly admitted how I feel before. Can anyone relate to even the tiniest bit of this? Should I even be asking for help when I don't feel I could help anyone else if they were in this situation?
  2. jamesonnk

    jamesonnk Member

    Although I can not say that I fully relate to your situation, I can relate to a lack of empathy or caring for others. You seem to be thinking very rationally and logically which is a good thing. I can only imagine how hopeless this seems but I would like to assure you that with time, you will find a situation where you can help other people. I can assure you that suicide would cause nothing but pain for your family. This might not be so practical, but I think you might benefit from help from a proffesional which may result in medication that would improve your situation. Given your logical and rational state, I can't help but think you would be an amazing doctor. You would probably be a fantastic doctor/surgeon given your assumed ability to think in situations without emotions getting in the way. Also, i know this may seem impractical, but your family may be able to help if you talk to them and try to explain your feelings. In the meantime, please, please, please hang in there. I'm here to talk anytime. I wish the best of luck to you sweetie.
  3. Obsessive

    Obsessive Well-Known Member

    I can relate so much to this. People automatically assume I'm just being melodramatic when I say it, but I simply cannot consider myself human. I've always looked to the people around me with jealousy and anger wondering why I'm so deficient. I'm even envious of those who have died young as they had the satisfaction of knowing that they died human - that they had human bonds, human dreams, things of value to actually lose that made their deaths actual tragedies rather than being comparable to those of worms that wither on the driveway after the rain has let up.

    I'm told that I'm highly intelligent, but I'm always treated like a lost child. Granted this tends to work to my benefit as any expectations for me are usually set incredibly low, but it's difficult to consider myself of even average intelligence when I can't even do simple tasks like learning or remembering things for the purpose of socializing. Even the lowest level of communication, small talk, requires a firm grasp on a wide range of intricate details and information that people take entirely for granted. It's bad enough having communication difficulties due to Asperger's and not being a concrete thinker, but my total apathy is the real killer as some level of emotional attachment is necessary for learning and memory. I wish I could enjoy sleep, but my mind never calms, craving an impossible level of overstimulation daily. My defunct mind turns something as basic as writing this into an arduous task that takes hours to complete before I can get myself into bed and just lie there long enough for sleep to eventually settle in. The day is largely spent trying to distract myself from the emptiness inside.

    What you're describing certainly doesn't sound to me like psychopathy. You demonstrate guilt and shame over a lack of reciprocation, which is a hallmark of empathy right there. From my understanding psychopaths/sociopaths don't trouble themselves over how they should behave as that's an ethical concern that stands in stark contrast to the behavior of one who manipulates for self-gratification. From how you talk of the guy you met online it sounds like you get overwhelmed by your perceived inability to properly reciprocate to the point where you see rejection as the inevitable outcome. By doubting the sincerity of those who would wish to maintain any form of a relationship with you, you reject them first. It sounds to me like you feel that you aren't worthy of receiving love in any form. This is a sign of self-hate.

    The problem is that, like myself, you are so burdened with your own issues that you have no energy left to take on other people's problems as your own. Your default state of mind is so chaotic that even your ability to experience pleasure is greatly diminished, resulting in great difficulty relating to others . It seems to me that you may have major depression, possibly to the point of dysthymia (double-depression). Do you think it possible to share your experience with a therapist? You could print out something you've written, such as this post, if you feel the verbal would be a problem. A good therapist will usually lead the conversation and help you to feel comfortable enough to share your thoughts.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2012
  4. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member

    Don't think you need help , since you are a cold calculating personality , the thing is don't go looking for a soul mate .
    They will find you when you need it the most , for the rest keep on doing what you want to do .
    Even if it is wierd to others , it is the way you are , there is nothing wrong with you .

    Infact you are what the business world wants nowadays , the perfect stereo type of cold, no emotions , and logically calculating always .
    If you want to learn small talks , especially for a type like you , bring up a logical subject you already know the outcome .
    Just feign you do not ,

    Truth is Txxx nothing wrong with you , just don't go too long only wanting to sleep and long for sleep .
  5. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    If you are bothered or upset about this, and based on posting here and your last paragraph or two it is bothering you, then you are not as cold as you perceive yourself to be. I would , same as many problems posted on here, start with a visit to a Dr and a therapist. It is likely they will do a full panel to determine if it has a simple and easily correctable organic condition such as vitamin deficiencies or hormone levels. If all of that checks out fine than a therapist/counselor/psychologist may be able to help you determine if this id just you or if it is something that can be trained/ worked on to increase your personal satisfaction and feeling of fulfillment in your life.
  6. txx

    txx Member

    I appreciate the responses.

    Obsessive, it seems you have hit the proverbial nail on the head... particularly the way you describe not being human. This is how I feel entirely. I would trade in my academic intelligence for some social awareness. Plus it seems the information I have learned is locked away in my head, inaccessible, and I'm unable to make links and grab hold of it like others can in conversation. Yet if you put pen and paper in front of me, I could write you an essay on anything you wanted. I've aced every academic examination that I've ever done yet the one thing that I would like to master is SOCIABILITY. But it continues to elude me. It's the most difficult subject of all, which is why I think it's innate, rather than something you can learn.

    Obsessive do you mind if I ask what you do? I mean, do you work or are you studying? Are you financially independent, living with family, or something else? I'm just curious, no need to answer. I'm also intrigued by Aspergers, for a while I wondered whether I could be somewhere on the autistic spectrum. But then I have no trouble reading facial expressions and knowing how people are feeling, I just do not possess the ability to put myself in their shoes or feign interest in their lives. Perhaps because their interests are completely foreign to me? They don't invoke any excitement so I cannot relate. I'm just not interested. Do you feel anything for your family? Again I realise that's personal so you're under no obligation to answer.

    I have on rare occassions forced myself to spend time with people as an experiment of sorts, and they somehow never suspect there's anything wrong with me, they just say I'm quiet. One person even commented that I was great company. I wonder HOW they don't see it's all an act? I only ever echo what they have said and nod where necessary, to show that I am "listening". I feel like I permanently have to act human. There's nothing natural about my behaviour. Do normal people ever fake emotions? Do you have to force a smile to appear friendly, or does that smile appear naturally, a bit like a reflex action?

    I'm on medication but all it serves to do is lessen the physical side effects. Instead of crying in my bed all day at the thought of another 50+ years trapped inside my head, I have exactly the same repetitive thoughts but the need to cry is gone, the panic is gone. I feel absolutely nothing, rather than just fear that the future will be exactly the same as the past quarter century.

    Counselling is something I'm considering. In fact I have the leaflet here and I should call them tomorrow. But at the same time, do I trust myself enough not to lie? Do I tell them my plans of suicide? If I do, will they put me in a psychiatric ward? I wonder if this is depression talking or is it just the way I am and the way I will always be? Is my mind so consumed by the thought that I am emotionally deficit that there's no space for any other thoughts? As for double depression I've never really heard of it, I will look it up and see what I can find.

    Everything my doctor told me was what I already knew. "Join a club, meet like minded people, find something you enjoy". The problem is that NOTHING interests me. I feel I know more than the medical professionals themselves and I can second-guess what they are going to ask me before my appointments, so I construct politically correct answers to get what I want. Being a doctor would probably have been my ideal profession if only I had the communicative ability required.

    I can understand that people may write me off as being arrogant or dismissive of advice. But NYJMPMaster is correct in that I don't like the way I am, and I would like nothing more than to feel at ease in society instead of being like this. It is frustrating.

    I'm just at a loss. I don't understand if this life has anything to offer me? Do I have anything to offer it? Should I keep trudging on, attempting activities that hold absolutely no pleasure for me, just for the sake of fitting in? Should I stick around just to answer other peoples questions? My family always asks my opinion and seem to appreciate my brutal honesty and logic, even though we are complete opposites.

    Sometimes I look around and force myself to do something to "help". I donate money to charity as people say it's the right thing to do. I feel nothing from doing it, but I do it anyway. If I see an old lady struggling to reach something on a high shelf at the supermarket and I will reach for it, but again, I do it because it's socially expected not because I want to do it. Perhaps I'm hoping that by faking it, it will eventually feel real? Perhaps I just want to look as if I care? I don't know.

    Rambling over. Thanks for the insight. I do listen even if I do not always agree.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2012
  7. txx

    txx Member

    Another thing - what does guilt feel like? how do you measure it? how do you measure any emotion when it's something that isn't physicaly quantifiable? It's like love - what is it? For me I have to guess what these emotions feel like based on how other people behave in different situations.

    Perhaps my posts display guilt or shame but I can't recognise those emotions.
    I do feel negative emotions. I feel emptiness and a certain level of sadness when I look at what other people seem capable of feeling. I feel embarrassment for myself when I cannot verbalise my thoughts, and cannot fill an awkward silence. I don't really care that the other person feels awkward, but I do care about how I am perceived.

    Again, these are just my own confused musings so ignore at your leisure.
  8. Drake

    Drake Well-Known Member

    People always act , it is when they really trust somebody that they show there true colors , very few are there natural self ,
    Infact if people are there natural self , a lot of things would be beter .
    But since everybody is afraid to get hurt , or made fun off , all they do is put up a act .
    How well you put up a act , the more accepted you are in society .

    Guilt is when you think you did something wrong , but even logically you didn't do anything wrong .
    Cold logic sometimes just doesn't win out over human emotion .
    Love is one of those things , that everybody have different logical explanations for but very few truely understand it .

    The real question is more Txxx , since you are a crossroad in life .
    What is more important academical superior progress , or superior social understanding ?
    Since both do not combine , trust me I know that since went the social road .

    Why in general people say they can have both , almost none excel in both .
    So it is making priority , If I were you I would concentrate on the academical side of things first , fake the social aspect .
    Till one day somebody just comes along and understand you , knows you are faking it .
    Academical side has a time limit, social doesn't , it doesn't matter if you are 50-80 , always time to learn social skills .
    Academical sadly is needed to succeed .

    But all this is just my point of view and 2 cents , others Might have beter say differently .
  9. Jack Rabbit

    Jack Rabbit Well-Known Member

    Language is actually totally deficient in ability to describe feelings. I think this is inevitable. There's nothing to point to. I can tell you to look at the grass and we can agree that it is green. Or brown. But if I try to tell you that I love my daughter, how can we come to an agreement about what that means? We can't. We can figure out some details based on perceivable facts - such as that I enjoy having her visit - but even that begs the question, because how do we define 'enjoy'?
    So here's my question for you...
    Since we can't define love - how do you know you don't feel it? The distortions in perception from depression and many other disorders are hard to figure out, but one thing is clear. The very fact that you are asking the question makes it unlikely that you are a classical psychopath.
  10. Obsessive

    Obsessive Well-Known Member

    I live with my parents, go to college part-time working towards an Associate's, and work negligible hours at a pointless job that would be an insult to part-time workers everywhere to even refer to as a part-time job. I've spent much of my life playing video games as often as possible to distract myself from life seeing anything else as tedium to suffer through, but a couple years back I burnt myself out on them and for the first time I wanted to socialize. Unfortunately because I had isolated myself for so long and never had much of an interest in anything it's difficult keeping any type of conversation going, although using my knowledge of human interaction and conceptual reasoning I have had relative success feigning interest and using humor to keep other people talking. An upside to this is that they'll often take most of my social blunders as deliberate jokes. However, one of the biggest problems caused by my Asperger's is that my processing speed is so low it takes too long to interpret what's been said and formulate a response of my own. I have to resort to anticipating the course of dialogue and keeping it as predictable as possible. Still, my social deficit isn't so horrible that I can't interpret facial expressions, pick up on social queues, or understand sarcasm. Being as autism is a spectrum disorder people are affected differently by it.

    I've forced myself out to social events out of a vain hope of cultivating something of an interest and making friends, but so far no dice. I've even tried volunteer work, but the only job I could do that felt like I was actually contributing was a heavy lifting job that ruined my back. For now it's probably best to focus on my studies as I've wasted so much time already because I have no idea what I should do with my life, although I'm not optimistic when it comes to my future. College classes are very hard for me because they either require a lot of rote memorization and/or a lot of writing. I can write well, but it takes so long and so much energy. I also get absolutely nothing out of lectures which I just have to suffer through as part of the grade and try to learn the material on my own. With the small amount of classes I can handle at a time I doubt I'll be getting a worthwhile degree anytime soon, and when I do I may not even be able to get a decent job as so many people far more capable and intelligent than I are struggling in this job market.

    My relationship between my family is a rather complicated one. They do have a lot of love for me, and I feel grateful, but I also can't help but feel resentment towards them. My parents have always been miserable together, with my father trying to spend as much time away from my mother as possible by working long hours, and my mother constantly looking to put him down. I hate how abusive she is towards him and how controlling she is when it comes to my life, but I feel guilty because of it. She suffers from a high level of negativity that makes her simultaneously push dad away and hate him for avoiding and ignoring her, pessimism on a cosmic scale that makes everyone want to keep as far away from her as possible. She also felt the need to take control of my life because I sure as hell didn't; she always felt the need to protect me. Meanwhile my dad and I are on completely different wavelengths. He never ceases to frustrate me when it comes to my problems, as his suggestions are essentially just a dogma he seeks to impose - that everything is solved through a strong work ethic alone. He thinks the ultimate answer is for me to get a full-time low-level job so I no longer have time to focus on my problems.

    Chances are good that other people don't see your act as such because they themselves are used to both interacting with actors and playing their own roles without realizing. In my view, personality itself is simply a manifestation of self-interest. For the purposes of security and conformity we tend to be very selective of what facets of ourselves we present to others. There's always a degree of superficiality, not only out of personal comfort but how our own ideas, perceptions, and behaviors are affected by those expressed by others and how we perceive ourselves. Humans are creatures that have to maintain a sense of control over their own lives to function, which makes interaction between people so complex that even something as ostensibly pointless as small talk has the power to make people feel connected and powerful through the concept of having left their mark upon others, their influence. One of the most pervasive of human fears throughout history has been that of wasting one's life which people have sought to combat through the fulfillment of dreams and the weaving of strong bonds.

    As someone who is depressed you feel like you have no control over the course of your life. And because of this you have deemed yourself to be your own worst enemy. To overcome this you must seek out not only a sense of empowerment, but self-acceptance. It's true that you aren't likely going to feel proud for doing something that is expected, but when you get to the point where you feel well enough I think that you would be able to take the initiative and offer assistance even when it's not expected and take pride in that. The real trick to this is the nature of your motives - if you're doing something simply because you feel you should, whether it be trying to force yourself to enjoy something or helping only to avoid coming off as awkward or mean, you won't develop any sense of control. If you feel that you have to change yourself so that you're worthy of respect then you won't accept yourself, and if you feel that you must help others in order to avoid seeming selfish then you will become a doormat. It really is a difficult situation because you look to others for validation since you are unable to approve of yourself, but are hypersensitive to signs of rejection and constantly riddled with self-doubts to the point where your perception of how they see you lines up with how you see yourself. Even realizing this, the idea that someone else could accept you seems far more realistic than you being able to accept yourself. But in the end you will have to do just that before you can truly accept anyone's praise.

    You would not be institutionalized solely for having suicidal thoughts, only if you had a plan and gave indication of going through with it. To consider suicide and to consign yourself to it are two very different things. Keep in mind that you may want to try multiple therapists because, as you pointed out, not all the people in the field are going to be particularly helpful. I've seen almost a dozen and out of all of them only my current social worker has been of any help. In fact, he's awesome. The others I've seen would often come to very quick conclusions and find ways to pigeonhole anything I said or expressed into their own pet theories. One thought the problem was all about OCD (hence the name), another thought PTSD (despite no traumatic event), another decided I just didn't want to be happy, etc. I've learned to automatically distrust the sincerity of any who conveniently place their wall clocks right over where the patient is to sit. You want to get someone who really gets you. As long as you answer questions the best you possibly can and keep yourself open to advice you are keeping yourself open to progress. You're not looking for a magic cure or someone telling you how to feel, you're looking for understanding of the psychological underpinnings that keep your emptiness firmly locked into place.

    It's the nature of depression to convince you that any attempt to change anything is a wasted effort. The more you analyze something the more you'll find reason to avoid pursuing it, but you have to take action for anything to change. If you can't find it in you to give yourself a chance then give a therapist a chance and see where that goes.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2012
  11. txx

    txx Member

    I will go through peoples posts individually when I'm thinking more clearly.

    Today I feel like the most disgusting subhuman wretch to ever walk the planet. My family are all tired of me and I don't blame them. I can feel the helplessness radiating from them, with their sympathetic smiles. I do nothing to help myself because I have no faith that this can be solved.

    I've spent the past few days daydreaming my life away, thinking what it would be like to be in a real relationship. The only thing at this point that stops me from leaving is the thought of the physical pain, and the thought that I might end up in a worse state -- if that is even possible.

    I can see my friend on msn and I want to talk to him so badly but I have no words. He was good at comforting me, even though it was always just a short-lived rush. All I can do is cry because if I was a different person, and I could care for him and communicate with him, we would be perfection.

    I'm a user. I just wish I had someone to feel close to. What a messed up situation. My life is a sick joke.
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