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Nobody is real, it seems.

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Nocturnal Ponderer, Dec 27, 2007.

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  1. Nocturnal Ponderer

    Nocturnal Ponderer Well-Known Member

    Hello all,

    First post and all that.

    The reason I'm posting here is that lately, thoughts and fantasies of suicide have been swimming around in my mind.

    I know what is the cause of this, but I can do little, it seems, to stop it.

    Ever since I was crawling and poo'ing my nappies I've always distanced myself from people.

    To cut a long story short, these are my opinions based on 28 years of life, thought and experience.

    I find that unless you're good at talking about surface crap, you're going to be lonely.

    I find that most people have never even delved a little way beneath the surface, and as a result they just "do" without ever asking why.

    I find the majority of people, come crunch time, would not honour you or your feelings. Some do this blatantly, some are more cunning. I know it is not everybody, but it is sure a hell of a lot.

    I feel that I must know the truth behind everything, and as a result I do not partake in any social or organised institution. This includes marriage, Christmas, Valentines day or religion. I feel that the real reasons people partake in these is because, essentially, they are driven by fear. For example,

    Christmas: Fear of what others may think if they do not do it. Fear of ostracisation.
    Marriage: Fear of being left on the shelf. Fear of not having the emotional security that is "guaranteed" with marriage. Fear of being judged a failure, or unworthy. I cannot think of one marriage I know of based on true love. Not one.
    Religion: Provides adults with a comfort blanket, and relieves the fear of being judged as bad by god.

    None of the above are based on any reality and are only arrogant concepts invented by man as a quick fix to mask fearsand insecurities, and impose what he thinks it should be. If everybody was honest and open, and objective, they would see that everything is wearing a mask of facade and that very little is real.

    I feel people are not real. I feel 99% of people play into "it", whatever "it" may be. Fashion, occasions, apperances, bullshit etc.

    I feel most people work off of ego, fear, laziness, ignorance and falsehoods.

    As a result, I feel extremely lonely. I have had 5 failed relationships and feel unattractive, despite being physically and aesthetically blessed, to a degree.
    I feel I'm a very true person and have 110% loyalty to give to the ones who I am close to. I live in reality and do not just "do" because of the fashionable trend or because it is the consensus that everybody else seems to adhere to.

    My main gripe is that I feel everybody is false but seem to have close friends and happiness. I remain true, and always speak the truth, yet I am in the cold. Unless you can talk surface shite all day, there is no point. People don't want to know, or lack the capacity for deep discussion without judgements and personal opinion clouding the issue.

    I have one extremely good friend who is on my wavelength. A small handful of aquaintance/loose friends who I see on occasion (not much and not ultra close) and I get along superbly with my mother.

    But as for everybody else, they're all deluded, false, insincere or downright judgemental.

    I am aware I sound arrogant, but I'm not. I'm not quick to judge, I listen, I observe and I have a grasp on social patterns, social trends and things like that. I'm not a doer, I'm an observer and a staunch one at that. But I'm lonely and cant seem to forge new connections. I just cant seem to mix, or socialise too well because I cant get involved in the bullshit and facadery of it all. Nobody seems real or sincere.

    I feel totally alienated, I cry everyday (which is only a recent thing, I'd say the last 2 years) and the women in my life seem to be drying up to the point of none. I'm not used to this. I used to laugh, joke, and things like that. As I've got older I see the cynical truth behind everything. I see what is really going on, but I feel so few do, and just carry on "doing" regardless, and I'd rather be dead than be false, or do something just to fit in, or gain acceptance, or to have my ego satisfied. Ego is just a concept anyway, based on no reality.

    I just feel death is the ultimate escape. I'm 28. I may have 60 years left yet. I can't imagine growing old and lonely. I get way too sensitive at the notion that it is all slipping away. I mourn my youth, even though I'm loosely still in it. I feel everything breaks down in the end, we get worse with time, we make no new close friends past 30, I can't even cope with my life now and I only have myself to think about. I fear having children, I fear not having children. I fear lonliness, I fear engulfment. I'm a walking contradiction, too complex for women to bother with. So naturally I have been thinking along the lines of suicide. I'm a long way from doing it. But it seems a lot more alluring now, than say one year ago. As time goes on, I feel more and more drawn towards suicide.

    I'm cutting off people who have hurt me, or wanted their one sided friendships. I have cut off people who mean nothing to me because they judge me and don't understand, yet I understand them. I didn't have too many people to cut off in the first place, but this year alone I have cut off four or five. They had agendas, I've been manipulated, mis judged. I am aware I sound like I am playing the victim, but I am not. I really did see inside them. I cut them off for good reason. They just had agendas. The very few who remain are true. I know they are.

    Anyway, enough of my rambling. Does anybody else here feel like me?

    Inside I'm screaming. I feel trapped in this world of falsehoods and bullshit. I feel disgusted by peoples greed, non awareness and selfishness. I see people who do not think for themselves.

    Sometimes I really really want to end it all. I've even started googling phrases such as "Painless ways to kill yourself" and "Suicide methods" etc etc.

    One last thing, I suppose it is no coincidence that for a living, I drive a truck, alone, for 10 or 11 hour shifts through the night. I start around teatime, and finish around dawn, then go to bed while society gets on with it.
    I love the solitude, yet fear it at the same time. I fear the way its creeping into every fibre of my being and consuming me. Yet, I crave it, when it suits me.

    If you got this far, thank you so much. If you have any words of wisdom, or you can draw a parellel to your own life, please share.
  2. patodemuerte

    patodemuerte Well-Known Member

    Hello there Nocturnal Desire. Not really sure what my posting will really accomplish, but at least you'll know you're not the only one. I'm only 17 but I too find these thoughts maddening.

    I dont get it. I dont see the greatness in what each of them is striving for. I dont see what good living for 80years and dying is going to do. I simply cant grasp other's perceptions on life.

    LoL. so I sit. and i ponder.

    And i create new questions as to why and what good, all without answers. I have convinced myself people aren't even people anymore actually, just empty entitys with predetermined statements, replies, and wonderings.

    From what I get from your post theres anger in society's ways and I can comprehend to an extent, I believe.

    I dont hold quite so much against marriage though I do agree, about other's fear of being left "on the shelf". Couldnt have said it better myself.

    As for the trapped thing, yeah I get it. I cant accept the standards of society. Not much to do about it though. Just keep pitying them. I intend to until my departure.
    I think this is where I stop. Because we seem to be running on similar thinking patterns, yet I can see that our situations differ so much. This is where I stop being able to help you. Hope you find another answer.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2007
  3. titanic

    titanic Well-Known Member

    If you don't believe in God, why would you fear being judged by Him? Quite the opposite, faith is supposed to set you FREE
  4. srnityblu

    srnityblu Well-Known Member

    It is nice to meet you.

    It sounds like you are discovering what you want out of your relationships and people aren't living up to your expectations. With expectations like that, you are only going to find a select few for your social circle. Is that a bad thing? I am always left scratching my head because I do not understand why people feel the need to have an entourage around them to feel that they are important.

    You haven't found what you are looking for. That comes with time, and some people never find what they are looking for.

    A stranger is just a person you haven't made friends with yet. I am sorry if I sound too optimistic, but I too am in a circle of seclusion. It's a life style my husband and I prefer, and it's lonely but I would rather have a select few of people I associate with, then to have alot of people around me that are fickle and phony and end up gossiping about you.

    The women in your life well, it sounds like you know what you want, and again perhaps this time is for personal growth, There is a woman out there for you when you are ready.

    It is so unfortunate but this world is very superficial and has many facades. It is unfortunate and it's horrible for tender hearted people to go through. It's hard to make your way in life when all it seems that people want to do is use you to get a leg up in the world. I am glad to have met someone who isn't like that.
    Rejection is always hard to take, no matter what form it comes in. You have alot going for you and you are not alone, just one unique individual among a few. What you are looking for is hard to find, but it is out there. Do not change to mold to this horrible society.

    Have you considered taking up a hobby? Or renewing one? You aren't to old to try your hand at diving, snorkeling, or wake boarding? You travel alot and I am sure have seen many neat and exciting places. Have you ever taken up the local scenery such as taking a day course in something? Sign up for a day tour with the local tourist building. You can meet alot of amazing people who are not from where you are, and perhaps meet your potential significant other?

    That's on the lighter side... It sounds like you want to get down to the meat of conversation, and the people you encounter do not feel comfortable with talking about issues that you think are relevant and hold importance. I understand that. People are so scared of causing offence so they would rather not talk about it, or they advoid issues because they so easily become offended. What happened to passion? It's so easily confused and lumped in with hate and greed and people just are scared to delve into other people's feelings or tap into thier own. Oh what I'd give for a conversation that held worth. I am so sick and tired of talking about fashion trends and who does what... I am not into looking to people in the limelite for worth. Some people just can't be "real". Sometimes it feels like I am talking to someone who has air between thier ears, and you can actually see the disintrest look on thier face before you even open your mouth! You hear the "what-e-ver" before they say it. I hear you loud and clear!

    You are not alone my friend. If there is anything you want to talk about, and get off your chest, feel free.

    Please don't let others get you down. You have alot to offer and alot to give to anyone you encounter. You may be alone in your lifestyle but you are not alone. You have support of those who you have yet to encounter. You have a wonderful future ahead of you, you just can't see it yet. Someone somewhere in this big wide world is in need of someone like you. Has a hope and desire to meet you. Alot can happen in a day, a week, a month a year, you just need to give it time, and time you do have. Use this time to educate and learn and grow. Never loose sight of who you are, who you are to become. Be yourself and please do not change to suit the needs of others. You are not destined to live this life alone. Please don't think that. This time in your life is meant for growth and change. A healthy positive change if you allow it. You are not, never no way, who others say you are. You are a man of integrety and your life is a gift. I am sorry that others bring you to tears, but you are not living your life for them, whom ever they may be. You do not have to let others perceptions and inablities to see you for who you are to rule your life. Thier rejection should never mold you into something you are not. You do not have to give into your fears, and thier doubts of who you are. You are not who They say you are. Your emotions do not have to dictate to you. But it's your choice. You are free to give in and give up, or ... keep up the good fight and find something better out of this life than what others around you have.
  5. Nocturnal Ponderer

    Nocturnal Ponderer Well-Known Member

    patodemuerte, thank you for your reply. You said,
    This articulated a point which I found myself agreeing with, at least in theory.
    It is as if there is a script, or as if they are supposed to say something specific when there is a specific trigger point. As if no conscious thought went into it. This goes on to make me ponder the question, does anybody really put any thought into anything? Or is it, as you say, a predetermined response?

    titanic, thank you for your reply. You wrote,
    Nowhere did I say non believers fear god. I said I think religion is based on fear. The fear of being judged by god, or judged badly.
    So being a non believer, according to my synopsis, is being free abnd fearless.

    I do not want this thread to turn into a religious debate. I have had enough of those to last me a lifetime. But I was merely pointing out a truth about organised religion as a whole. A sweeping statement that takes in a universal basis for religion from a psychological viewpoint, and that is, that it is based largely on fear.

    srnityblu, thank you for your reply.

    You wrote so much I don't really know where to quote. However, I want to thank you for writing such a time consuming and heartfelt reply.

    I am doing a lot better today. I have finally made an appointment to see a doctor tomorrow. I shall explain about my feelings and I will mention my creeping thoughts of suicide. With luck, I hope to get on the waiting list to see a professional.

    I think my worst fears are losing my best and only friend, and never meeting a woman who is on my wavelength, and that has that heartfelt sincerity I so seek in people.

    I can't even begin to describe the manipulation and lies I have suffered from women. The cheating and disrespect for my feelings. I am aware that I sound as if I am playing the victim, which I know some people do. But I really have, except for once, been subject to being used for their purposes, needs and expectations which were projected onto me in a fashion of fantasy, only to be shown hellish anger or blatant disregard when I failed to be whatever they thought I was.
    The only one to ever show me some heartfelt warmth had her own ideas of what her future was going to be like. As soon as she discovered I did not believe in marriage on a fundamental level, she left me and I never saw her ever again. Never mind the me that was there. Never mind that there was a human being who wanted a true connection with another. It was that stupid institution again which seemed to prevail over what could have been a very true bond. Why? Because it would have secured her future and completed her notion of tradition. Where was the truth in all that? What would have been true is two people actually getting to deeply know and love one another without all the crap which clouds genuine truth of love, knowlegdge (of each other) and unionship.

    As the Beatles so rightly sang in July 1967, incidently getting to number one in the charts, all you need is love.

    Thanks for reading, sorry for rambling.
  6. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    it's a long post and I haven't read through all of it but I've seen some important things you mention, so, erm some thoughts..

    - I totally agree that a lot of the Christmas thing is a bit fake and that people do and say things to please others. But I don't think there's a need to make a big deal of that.
    - 99% of people are not real? I'm not actually sure if you mean that, but what is it you want out of life and out of people? Are you sure it's not some kind of dissatisfaction about yourself? Because I can tell you, if you truly like yourself, you will like other people - okay you won't like everyone, but you'll begin to see the good in people.
    - A lot of the time people have busy lives so it's difficult to think of the deeper stuff sometimes.

    but hey why let all this define you anyway? What have you got to offer the world? Sounds like you got something. What do you think your purpose in life is? Personally I'd read some literature along the lines of how to relate to others and how to improve yourself. Self help literature can be absolutely wonderful stuff if you open your mind to it.
    I am quite happy with my own company but I'm working on things like how to make more friends, how to get a relationship etc. I'd say I'm different but people do like me now. Women can be horrible but then so can men. But it's easy to fall for the wrong person. Been there, done that.
  7. Nocturnal Ponderer

    Nocturnal Ponderer Well-Known Member

    Thank you for your post.

    99% was just a figure of speech. I should clarify that I didn't literally mean that. I just find that there are an overwhelming number of frauds that will stab you in the back if it meant they gained. And that is a huge lack of sincerity and love.

    I do like myself, but I don't at the same time.

    I think too deeply and I do find I am on a completely different level to almost everybody I meet. I really do get the "What-e-ver" looks. Yet I'm convinced I see the truth behind some things purely by observing, and having an insight into human psychology.

    Take Christmas for example. You agree that it is a bit fake.

    Here are the facts.
    *I get no Christmas cards whatever. This does not bother me, I like it that way. But the reason I do not is because I do not send them either. Now the ones who over the years have stopped sending them, why? Is it because they don't get one back? So therefore makes their gesture of giving one insincere in the first place.

    *Money really does seem to make the world go round. Retailers have, over time, carefully manipulated people by playing into a few fundamental fears. They know that generally people will just "do it" for the sake of appearing to be normal, giving and caring. But, the point is, had it not been December the 25th, they would NEVER have gone to the trouble of buying you another bundle of socks, or a box of chocolates would they?
    They know that parents want to avoid the guilt of depriving their children, so exploit this by marketing the "must have" present at exactly the right time. They're bought out of fear and obligation. Not true love, despite what they say. Showing yoiur children true love is a completely different topic!
    Debt is another yuletide burden, totally unnecessary, yet they know this and offer you credit cards around the beginning of December with the specific selling point of "Pay nothing until March". The bastards know most people will think they're being done a favour, but it is disgustingly self serving of the banks and money lenders.

    *The true meaning of Christmas does not even exist. There is no true meaning. Jesus is reported to have been born around the spring. Trees were a pagan symbol. Tree decorations stem from (I may be wrong, but I have read this in several places) the pagans (?) hanging the heads of sacrifices on the trees. Santa was invented by whoever (was it coca cola?) for whatever reasons. The true reason would have been to make somebody a quick buck somewhere. I have read several times that Coca Cola invented him to remarket their product after cocaine was found in it. Probably not true, but the truth behind santas creation would probably be equally as self serving to whoever invented him. Every period of social ideas (pagans, victorians etc) have stamped their mark on Christmas, so it actually has no true meaning.

    *We are told it is a time for family and love. But it is forced. You cannot force love and bonds by delclaring it to happen on a particualr date. It is all appearances and insincere obligations playing on our emotions such as guilt and the redemption of our self images of being a bad person.
    How sincere is a box of chocolates on 25th December? But how sincere would tickets to a classical concert sprung upon your parents be on any other date, just because their favorite orchestra are playing and you spent time researching it for nobodys benefit other than theirs?

    Call me cynical, but I really do see blatant, ranging to less blatant falsehoods all over Christmas. Truth be told, we all hate it and have expectations of it but would much rather not be doing it. But that is just my opinion based on my own feelings, and talking deeply and honestly with people.

    I don't even want to begin to talk about Valentines day. If I do something for somebody, they know damn well its sincere. Because it is impromptu and spontaneous and on any day or date. I also expect no return ever. Not even a feeling that I'm a good person. So it is not self serving. Its sincere, but I will not do it when society tells me to do it. I know not EVERYBODY is out to get you. I know the whole world is not my enemy. But I do know that there are some big powerful influences in society that steer things and exploit weakness in humans to the point of disgusting manipulation. And we play into it on false premisies that have been spoonfed to us based upon some kind of sincerity. Its all show.

    All institutions are just concepts. Designed to force things. But, by default of nature, nothing can be forced. Things have to grow naturally.
  8. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    To me most of those thoughts are perfectly acceptable and normal, and just because the majority don't think that way doesn't mean you shouldn't act true to yourself. I'm quite different to a lot of peeps but I want to make the most of what I have and make a difference in this world.

    - I don't send any Christmas cards anymore either, if people want to that's fine and if they don't send me any cards because I don't send them cards that is also fine.
    - I think it's absolute lunacy how much people spend at Christmas, but hey that's their lookout, not yours or my problem - it's not an evil thing, just bloody stupid, I wouldn't let things like that bother you. People should know better than to buy things out of guilt and compulsion (which I'm sure is the case a lot of the time), but they're probably worried about their self image and looking bad in front of the rellies. Madness if you ask me, but whatever.
    - I used to be a Christian and yeah Christmas is a pagan festival. Nowadays it's just one commercial extravaganza.
    - yes of course Christmas is forced and a lot of the niceties that are said in 'close family gatherings' are fake - for example my Dad has told me that my great aunt doesn't get on that well with my grandmother (her sister in law), but she wrote 'to my dearest ******, with love from *******' - I hate this fake niceness but if people want to be fake then don't let it stop you from being real.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2007
  9. pit

    pit Well-Known Member

    Hello. I enjoy reading your post, and I can relate to the anguish and loneliness you must feel. Anyway, here's my take.

    Christmas: My boss looks down on me and criticizes me, but he makes up for it on Christmas Eve when he shakes my hand and says "Merry Christmas." My very best friend, who used to be my girlfriend, calls me more often when the holidays approach to get together. Yes, everyone comes out of the woodwork to extend their brittle winter branches and then retract them when the weather gets warmer.

    I propose we celebrate Christmas once every three years. That way it's not exhausted and taken for granted. However, there are some things I like about it. I like the colorful mythology: Santa Claus, Scrooge, The Grinch, and all that. I never get tired of A Christmas Carol, and I prefer that to the sugary, unreal It's A Wonderful Life.

    Marriage: They say it takes two to tango. And upon that, they have built a couples' world. Hotel rooms for two. Dinner for two. Vacations for two. Reservations for two. Loners are increasingly frowned upon.

    People marry because they want emotional security, loyalty, money, love (sometimes) and sex. Well, you can find a steady supply of that anywhere, not just marriage. You have to be inventive. As far as I'm concerned, it's unrealistic to expect it from one person.

    I also feel marriage is the state's way of controlling you, seeing to it that because a document is binding you together, lawyers and judges are waiting in the wings to get their hands on your fortune once the marriage falls apart.

    Religion: Oh how I hate religion. Hated it ever since I was a kid. Never liked god. Never liked jesus. Never liked any of the saints. And I never liked my own religion either, which is Judaism. I could go into a whole bunch of stuff here, but I haven't got the time.

    I won't delve into the tired old canard that life is unfair, evil wins, and all that. What I do find objectionable is an all powerful deity who is so insecure that he demands to be loved and worshipped all the time. I find it offensive that whatever you accomplish in your life, you give the glory to Jesus, or to God, or to whatever. If he created the universe, isn't that enough? He should fuck off and leave us alone. It's a Christian way of thinking, which is so illogical. The most maddening thing is that we'll all be judged by this fat, domineering, insecure, vengeful bastard when we die. Didn't he/she/it give us free will?

    And don't get me started on the Muslims. I haven't got the time to tell you what animals they are.

    I will end on a positive note. I like Rastafarianism and Buddhism. Together, they tell you to get high and eat.
  10. gentlelady

    gentlelady Staff Alumni

    Welcome to the forum. While I agree some people are false, there are many that aren't. Christmas has become so commercial that people have lost the true meaning of it.
  11. Carcinogen

    Carcinogen Well-Known Member

    I too find that many people are fake. I personally find it impossible to relate to most people as they are, as you said, confined by the expectations of society and others. Many morals are also governed by popular opinion, so I find people difficult to talk to, as they are quick to judge a situation based solely on what is popularly considered right or wrong. Perhaps people's consistent and predictable behaviour is a product of 'herd morality'. Sorry, I think I'm rambling a bit. You just seem to have some similar views as I.

    As for cutting people who have hurt you out of your life, I would say this is healthy. Loneliness is of course a factor, but getting hurt again is worse. I also agree with you when it comes to avoiding those who are not real, and stating your own opinion as it were, not just doing something because it is the done thing.

    People don't like to hear the truth though. Because that might just mean that their purpose in life is no longer there, it was so hollow.

    I know none of this will help at all. You're not alone though.
    Excuse any spelling, grammar or nonsensical shit, my sobriety is shaky at the moment. Good luck.
  12. bleach

    bleach Well-Known Member

    Nocturnal, you're an insightful person and speak for my heart as well as yours. I agree with every word you've said so far.
  13. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    don't put yourself down, that was a good post.
  14. ggg456

    ggg456 Guest

    When I've felt very distant from people and hurt I've felt like you. And I suppose I do agree with a lot of the things you write..but I find religion, marriage, etc all interesting anyway although I don't subscribe to any one of them

    There's always been a part of me that is always intensely fascinated with people, whether it be how they work, how they do things. I find that I, personally can change my wavelength accordingly, depending on what I'm 'receiving' from them. As for what is real and what isn't- the 'surface' stuff can be very revealing and in the 'surface' things can be a wealth of things that is said. The surface things can have a lot of depth..depending on who is talking and what you know about them- and they can be revealing although it can be frustrating when you feel very separate that everything feels false and everyone is hiding and concealing themselves. I go through periods wandering around in public and a few months ago I sat in some shopping centre watching everybody pass by with music in my ears and everyone seemed like robots and I couldn't feel any warmth for them but everyone is alive to some degree ...there is a lot of life that might seem too contained/or dead within a structure of the things you dislike but there's life in there any way and I'm always drawn to people to find out about them. Whether I like the energy from that life being contained is another thing...

    As for some kind of meaningful, long lasting relationship I've felt very similar to you.

    I've been through that myself. And I hear your pain about her leaving you because you didn't want to get married. I'm the same way. Personally, in my case he couldn't deal with the reality that I was growing increasingly sick from his abuse and that I didn't live up to his cardboard cutout of his 'dream girl'..:dry:

    Seeing as you've had that kind of experience, being used, it's understandable you feel everything is fake and unreal. It is very rare I think to find someone who will be honest and let down their guard, but then again, maybe people feel they need to put up a front for safety and perhaps there's a lot underneath that would emerge in time if you found someone you're interested in and gave them time and patience? I can pick up things from people, especially if I think that we'd get along together and if there was some common ground in terms of life experiences- and I've learnt a lot recently, how to communicate with someone I love on their terms (when I'm not wrapped up in my own personal pain) and listening closely to them..
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2007
  15. Nocturnal Ponderer

    Nocturnal Ponderer Well-Known Member

    Thank you, and although you seem to lack confidence in the impact of your post, several things really jumped out at me. There were some profound articulations in there, such as...

    The problem is, I prefer to live as close to the truth as possible. Although absolute truth can never be known, there are near absolute specific truths about certain things. I find the problem is, is that nobody wants to know the truth, and that is my problem. I feel as if I live in a fake world. There have been several times people have come to me for advice. I have given them the truth instead of telling them what they wanted to hear. They avoid me now.

    ggg456, thank you for your heartfelt reply. I like the way you think and write and in my life, it has been rare to meet females who think along those lines.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2007
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