Not even sure

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#21
I see. I'm giving over the floor to others here who you might feel a connection with. I hope you stay and I wish you felt better, I really do. And I would care if your ceiling fell in on top of everything else which is making you feel so bad. I don't want anything to happen that makes you feel worse :)
 
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Nick

☆☆Admin-tastic ☆☆
Safety & Support
SF Social Media
SF Artist
SF Supporter
#22
I haven't replied here before because I've been processing it. That's how my brain works. Just from some clarity I'll throw out here that I have autism, so I process information differently. I don't see the world from the same perspective you do, but I can grasp where you are coming from. I don't make many connections, but when I do they are very deep. If I'm understanding correctly you don't make any connections at all. You said you don't know why you're on this forum, I'm not sure it matters. You insight is valuable. That's not some BS I'm throwing out that to make you feel good, because I doubt it would have that effect. Take it a face value.

This may also sound harsh, but 'caring' really is too cheap a word to use. If my ceiling fell on me tomorrow, would you care? Would you even know? Maybe someone'd say 'Where's m?', 'I dunno, he just disappeared', 'Oh well', and you'd go about your lives. I'm really sorry if that sounds harsh, but the world isn't that nice that we can truly love and care like that. Not here, nor anywhere. It's not a fair place, and not everyone can just look that in the eye and accept it.
Maybe care is the wrong word. I'm not sure. I'd have to think about that and research the meaning of words to see if maybe there is a better word choice. Empathize? Maybe that is a more appropriate word? I notice when people are gone. Given this is an anonymous forum there is only so much I can do to find out what happened to them if I did not know them outside of SF. There are people who haven't been here in well over a year that I still think about and wonder. Is that the case for everyone? I can't really speak for anyone else. Do I notice every member who disappears? No, I can't say that I do. That would be false and an arrogant statement. Do people here develop close relationships that last far beyond the bounds of the words on a screen? Absolutely. So yes, in some ways your statement is correct and I do agree with it. It is also missing a bigger picture of people who do develop a close bond.
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#23
I've been thinking over your feelings of disconnection and alienation from other people, and from really living in general. You say you have built a wall of protection around yourself to save you from pain, but it has failed to protect you because it hasn't got rid of the pain of the past, or the anticipated pain of the future (fear). It could be said you are imprisoned by fear because having disconnected yourself from life and other people, you are alone, face to face with the greatest fear of all which is death. You are too scared of life but more scared of death, which is a kind of living death.

Death is the great unknown and the fear of it is actually a fear of annihilation, of complete destruction in a nihilistic void. When the void looms intense fear is experienced. When we think of it deeply enough or actually face it when it appears imminent, the fear or anticipated pain of feeling life being extinguished, occupies the whole mind at full intensity without any distraction by 'lesser' pains and fears. All other pains and fears coalesce into this, the greatest fear of all.

If the fear of death in the sense of annihilation could be conquered without actually physically dying what would be left? We can't imagine not existing, obviously, so when confronted by the naked fear of death, we either draw back, or it is converted it into peace. It's not impossible to experience the fear of death full on and what it feels like to be free of fear and pain and remain conscious -alive .

Having conquered the greatest pain there could ever be, the anticipated pain of complete destruction, what is there to fear from life anymore? If you have faced FEAR in its purest, most intense form, and overcome it, how can you fear anything ever again? What would life be like without constant preoccupation with fear and pain? Can you see what it has to offer unblinkered, to a clear mind unobstructed by fear and pain?
 
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mfor

Some people belong backstage.
#24
Haa?
That was... a considerable amount of digression on the subject of life/death and the fear of it. Everyone has fears over their own life, and everyone is afraid of death to an extent. None of that, however, is the point. It is not dying that I'm the most afraid of, but the idea of dying while yelling 'not like this'. Not dying in itself, but the way you die. The idea of fighting through life to die alone is what I cannot take. The longer I fight, the more evident it is that I should give up and accept it, and the harder it becomes at the same time. It isn't a problem with death, but with the end of life, with how it ends. Suicide is a way to cut your losses before you those grudges and regrets, that 'time spent fighting', pile up. It is a rejection of a future of worthless strife that ends in a miserable death anyway. If it'll end like that, I'd rather break it all myself already. What's so wrong about that? Not everybody is meant to hope. Not everyone has a place in the world, some people are meant to be under it and cannot climb up no matter how much they try. Not everyone can accept it, so some people end up choosing to leave the entire world by their own hands. Can you honestly frown upon that? Can you, in good faith and conscience, look down on someone and tell them to keep writhing down there? You're not a fairy. You cannot honestly tell a puppet that, if it learns to be good, it will someday become a real boy. That is my point. You cannot take any responsibility for it. You can tell a maggot that it can become a human if it keeps struggling, but when it turns out to be impossible after all, all you'll be able to do is shrug and say 'well, that's life'.
This may seem harsh, and I'm sorry, but I really, utterly despise nice platitudes. Non-committing words of hope are empty and reckless, because, despite good intentions, they can cause more harm than if they were never said.
 

Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#25
I wasn't speaking about hope, but about facing fear instead of denying it when it's clear that fear is destroying your connection to life. If youre too scared to live, and too scared to die, what else can you do?

I don't "look down" on anyone in pain and say only what I understand from my own experience and that of others who have shared theirs with me.

I think you are unfortunately misinterpreting what I said. I actually mostly asked questions, which you decline to answer. That's your choice, nobody is compelling you to think about the questions I asked, or reply. I take responsibility for what I say, but it's not my fault if you, or anyone, doesn't accept it, or misunderstands it.

There's nothing platitudinous in what I said, so I don't really understand your hostility to it. Could you explain exactly how it could cause more harm than good so we're clear on that (presuming you understood it correctly, which you dont seem to)?
 
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Lara_C

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#26
It is not dying that I'm the most afraid of, but the idea of dying while yelling 'not like this'. Not dying in itself, but the way you die.
If you've never actually experienced the full blown fear of annihilation, how do you know it won't arise when death seems imminent? All your previous self assurances could vanish when it actually happens. Its easy to say you don't fear dying in itself because you've never been confronted with it, only imagined the presumed nothingness beyond it, denying the fear which could actually arise when it's too late to step back. This is an illusion because you're still there imagining 'non existence', not actually experiencing the real threat of it. I used to think I had no fear of death until I experienced it. It's unimaginable and nothing compares to it.

Please take this as it was meant -not as advice, but in the spirit of trying to understand your POV better as I think these are things we all face. You don't have to reply if you don't want to, of course, and feel free to disagree, as I know you will, but I think it would help increase my understanding.

ETA: Just wondering what you would say to someone who believes nothing could ever help, rejecting all help so far offered as platitudes and ineffective, and who also refuses medical help. Or would you say nothing, even if they were on a suicide site such as this? Don't you think the suicidal person would feel worse, and have his despair confirmed, if nobody genuinely cared enough to respond to his suffering and tried to help him suffer less? They may not have "all the answers", but if it helps the person suffer less, it's better to accept any kindness offered as genuine on a site such as this instead of assuming its fake. It means a lot to new people coming here to be greeted with warmth, empathy, and non-judgemental understanding so they feel its a safe space to unburden themselves.

Kindness IS the help and the more people are kind and friendly to others here, the more they help themselves as well as others.

What's the point in any of us being here if everyone is faking it and it doesn't actually HELP to heal anyones pain, and, as you suggest, may be positively harmful? What's your reason for being here unless youre getting some benefit from it, which I believe you are?
 
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