Oh Britain, you and your Biometrics

Discussion in 'Opinions, Beliefs, & Points of View' started by justMe7, May 13, 2013.

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  1. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Recently I found out that this particular school was phazing out the usage of physical money at their Cafeteria and replacing it with a credit system for students. Immediatly I had a problem with this because of logged in statistical data for individual students. However, I'm not a parent and there's little I can do about it as this could be a percieved way of the future.(which I don't like)

    But today I found out how the process is going to work. They are going to use the process of wonderful Biometrics. What they will do is take the childrens fingerprints, or retinal scans. These will then inturn be used for the children to obtain their food at lunch(dinner break) obtain library material, and apparently access certain areas of the schools.

    At the time in 2010

    So currently the system doesn't require parental consent to a degree until Sept1 of this year. Whatever.. a small point is that this particular school is getting their students done now, before this law is put inplace. Which I find interesting.

    But my main beef is you Britain. Is this what you are? Isolating and collecting personal data to this degree on children who have little to no comprehension of how this can affect their lives? Is this the society you want to be, where everyone is documented, everytime they digitally access something your history is stored and cataloged? Is this the foundations you want because of "ease of access" and "possible prevention of crime"?

    Please, someone argue why this is appriopriate in a school system. And to give you a heads up if you say it's because of crime. This just makes people stop because of fear, this doesn't do anything to deal with the root causes that lead someone into a live of crime.
  2. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Thought I'd put my stint in another reply. I do not understand why so many people are accepting of this. The CCTV craze was horrible enough, the human rights "defintion" and malluable stances are frightening(but part of the productive process). But this is going nutty. You essentially are tagging people, logging everything they do, where they go, and cumulating it into a database for access.

    Does no one seem to feel that the people in positions of authority are gaining too much on our individaulity? This is a leap, but essentially this is groundwork for gaining a sympathetic mentality for a younger generation in regards to biometric information and installment in society. This is also ground for work developing a economic system based entirely on digital currency. Among other fantastically crazy future impacts, the main problem is the invasion in your individual life and the tactic to isolate you if you disagree with it because you will not have access to what everyone else does if you don't use this system.

    You do my nut in Britain. You distrust your politicians, you distrust your neighbours, but this shit just keeps on rolling. This is a dangerous game and im seriously suprised that this Country is allowing it to happen so easily.

    Is your country doing similar things? I know America's had issues to personal invasion. I'm sure Canada's got some stupid ass justifications for some aswell. I'm just not privy to it. If you know of anything please share :)
  3. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Your wasting your time, this shit heap of a country is the most apathetic in the world. We organised a nationwide protest in london on may the 4th to protest against the cuts this government is piling onto the most vulnerable and poor in our society, 1000 people out of 72 million turned up.
  4. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    Well I wouldn't say I'm wasting my time. I rather like Britain and it's people. I personally just think the natives get shit on far too much, kept in the dark far too much, and are bombarded so much with "problems" that the good in this country is completely missed. Sorta feels like there is a problem with a progressive voice, and respect. But however it goes... You guys do have alot of international influence, and the manner inwhich you treat your citizens is somewhat stiff. It's fine I suppose, but there is a massive failure to accept responsibility for current situations, connect with them and show some hope that people can aim for.

    Anyhow whatever. But to your point about the country being apathetic. I don't agree. I think you guys are quiet and patient. There are many many useless rallies that do nothing in the end. It's a pure waste of energy to stand defiant to something but not offer a counter means of progression here, simply because this government does what it pleases. They don't listen to social friction at all, they just use any form of aggression to quietly back some new clamping law.
    People need to really be heard constantly, not be heard for a day and used as an example then tool the next day.

    There's another problem with holding rallies in London too btw, especially when it comes to low income people. They simply cannot afford the £50-200 train tickets there and back. It would be better for each cluster in their own communities to rally outside their MP's offices, with a true understanding of the law and situations, examples of how this won't help these particular individuals, and have counter suggestions.
    But if you're just yelling you don't agree... .. I think you're not going to be heard unfortunatly. The people in parliment don't strike me as connected or passionate about their constituants. Either that or they don't have enough voice behind them to be heard appriopriately. Simply because an economic advisor will overshadow a "moral" stand point. This country has way too much mis-trust for one another. That good has to be rejuvenated imo
  5. Theodora

    Theodora Well-Known Member

    One of the reasons I'm not too worried about biometric testing in schools or elsewhere is the renowned British ability at cock ups. After over twenty years of investment and trials we still do not have a joined up N.H.S. computer system. I was on my second (ten year) scannable passport before the equipment was in place to scan it. I'm not bothered about the possible introduction of I.D cards as I was issued with one as a baby by the British government. Without it no ration books could be issued and my mother wanted the extra rations allowed to nursing mothers. A system is only as effective as the operatives on the front line / shop floor. I'm relying on the citizens of the British Isles to continue our great British tradition of cocking it up.
  6. poisonedresistance

    poisonedresistance Well-Known Member

    So my 13 year old Daughter and my 15 year old Son came home from school with a form for us to fill in regarding their biometrics being taken so they could use parent pay to get their school meals, take out library cards and have access to some science buildings,, the school is ecclesborne academy in Derbyshire.
    I would not give my consent to the children and explained my personal worries about the miss use of data collection and storage and the future impact this can have on them. I gathered information including the EU directive regarding this and information from other reputable sites and showed them this asking them to read it and then make a more informed decision with regards to whether they wanted it done. At first before they read the information they both called me paranoid and shrugged me off as though it was completely acceptable for a government agency to hold your identity on record and all information in a single access file until they read the information and even went hunting on the internet themselves. After about an hour of them discussing it with friends on skype and reading what they could get their hands on they both had decided not to and had also encouraged and engaged their friends into refusing to take part. They have since returned to school loaded with their information and can form intelligent arguments against being made to participate in the scheme.
    It isnt just about telling the children what they can and cant do and what they should and shouldn't do, its about giving them all the information and letting them form decisions in their own minds. If the government did that with the people instead of hiding behind their straight banana explanations and answers all the time perhaps they would see that the people do not need a Nannie and are capable of making decisions when given the correct, truthful and complete information.
  7. Lost

    Lost Staff Alumni

    How crafty and I'm not sure all that legal. So it is compulsory for children to have this from sept the 1st in some places? The government have to legally give law abiding people the choice whether they want their ID to be stored on record or at least they did when I had to have a swab in one after I was mugged a few years back. This does not sound right at all and I am very surprised this has not made headline news yet. I bet if and when it becomes compulsory, everyone will be in an uproar about it after which it will probably be rejected but by then many kids will already have their data permanently stored which I expect is the main purpose for this. 1984 indeedy.
  8. Freya

    Freya Loves SF Staff Member ADMIN SF Author

    The school I worked in has had finger print payment for food and for library lending for at least the last six years. (UK) - the parents signed the school contract when the kids started agreeing they would have finger prints, would allow photos or videos of kids for educational purposes and posted on the website and various other things. To my knowledge nobody really had much of an issue with it.
  9. justMe7

    justMe7 Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say it's compulsory strictly speaking. But it's one of those situations where if you don't sign up with it, you either miss out on the access it gives, or have to go through another method to gain that access. Strictly speaking that's not compulsory, but it veers into isolation for those who don't want to participate, and encourages people to do it because of the social pressure. Especially for something so common place like a cafeteria or library.
    One main thing that I have a problem with is that it's been at the whim of children to decide. They are by far the last people to make decisions on a social scale like this. Despite what many teenagers like to think, the vast majority simply do not understand the social ramifications of accepting this technology. The thing is once it gets into one social outlet, it makes it extremely more likely it will be adopted by sub-social cultures or affiliated ones. Simply put, I think it's irresponsible for children and parents to be put into a situation where this form of technology is being introduced on a mainstream level.
    That being said it's inevitable. But like everything it needs to be done appriopriately. This tech is hardly new, but its primary usage was identification of individuals, so they can be scanned to verify their identity and to be compared against finger prints at crime scenes. It is the definition of identifying an individual on a physical level. Obviously people have some blurred perceptions between then and now, and are just going with the flow on things. But when I was a child I was still very aware of what finger prints were used for, and I never wanted to make it onto any database. As much as they say its for the "strict" access points, that's only a partial truth. If people are that trusting then.. obviously they need a wake up call. If you introduce a tool, it will always be used to the best of it's abilities. Sometimes it lays dormant in some applications, but if the "need" arises, it will be used to its fullest. These schools have these childrens(or individuals) finger prints and retinal scan ids.
    Go from there. No one really plays with foundation work, but if you're literally laying a foundation for a better tomorrow, you secure it so it doesn't infringe on an individuals right down the line. These children are making decisions for themselves that affect their entire life. Fucking inappropriate to introduce that to them when THE ADULTS would put some friction up if they tried similar things.

    @Freya - Well.. what problems could their possibly be in such a minute situation? It's not about it right now, it's about the social change, the release of your personal identity, and quite frankly the sly nature of it. Parents are extremely more prone to "security" when it comes to children. Children love new things and have an extreme higher level of trust in society unless they are in impoverished areas or have personal experience in the matter.
    Though I don't know, this country's all about tagging. It simply baffles the structure of thought when people bitch because they feel their personal freedoms are invaded, but so casually walk past things like this. ... Spose they just don't have the energy though. Sorta why I think this stuff is sly and underhanded. It's not being used properly imo.

    @Theodora - Er.. I understand what you're saying. But it's not about a cocked up usage of it. It's the one instance that passes. They build and expand upon it.
    And I wouldn't say this government is stupid. Far from it tbh, I think they know what they're playing with and try to be light handed, which causes alot of fumbling. But that may be for our benefit. The futures not getting much wider though.

    Anyhow.. doesn't really matter. The abuse isn't there, it's just poor introduction. Well, it's inappropriate introduction. Parents who have forgotten what to allow and what not too, and a government that thinks it's appropriate to socially ease a security mentality issue into secondary and primary schools. Sometimes I worry about Britain though. But then again I'm not British so my opinions invalid.
  10. poisonedresistance

    poisonedresistance Well-Known Member

    Arhh the blindness of those whom some people call educated.
  11. Lost

    Lost Staff Alumni


    Very interesting article on the subject detailing some of the concerns with it such as, you might be signing up for it for use with the school dinners and such but what happens if they decide to add to that in future? Know what you are signing on behalf of your children.

    Also if it were to be made compulsory in schools, it would not be legal under the Human Rights Act and the Data Protection Act. That is if schools are considered the same as workplaces which we are entitled to respect for our private life under it.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2013
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