on the edge

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Persephone2, Feb 21, 2016.

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  1. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    First off, does anyone on this forum feel like it helps them?

    I still haven't decide if I should try to live or try to die, but death seems like the best option so far.

    I'm not just depressed because I have a serotine imbalance. I can hold on until that kind of mood passes and find things that make me feel better.

    I'm not depressed because a lover broke up with me or because I lost my job. I've lived through those events and survived for the most part.

    I'm here, thinking of killing myself, because I'm about to be homeless and friendless at the age of 51. I'm here because the one friend I thought really cared about me is evicting me and leaving me homeless. It's not really losing all my possessions and dog that hurts as much as losing her.

    I'm not really afraid of dying,...not really. I'd rather be able to live, but if my life is only going to get worse from here on, then it makes sense to end it now, while I still have access to a statistically effective means to do so. I'm not a rash person and I don't want to fail at my attempt, so I looked up which methods are more likely to work. I don't have access to the most effective means, but I have basically the next most effective means.

    I tell myself that this instinct to keep living is just habit, not rational. I don't have kids or anyone who's dependent on me. I made sure my mother was safe, but she won't even know who I am much longer. I isolated myself from all my other friends, so they won't even know when I'm gone. My roommate is trying to find someone else to take my dog, so I don't have to worry about having her put to sleep.

    Sleep. We love to use that word as a metaphor for death. The holy grail of suicidal people is a method that will let us just go to sleep and not have to wake up. This is seldom a realistic expectation, however. It's not easy to "erase" a living person, even when one wants to die. Effective methods tend to be messy and leave horrible, haunting memories for the people who find the body.

    <mod edit - guidelines>

    I believe in reincarnation. I believe I've lived other lives before and will live another after this one. Karmic debt carries from past lives to future ones though, so my next life will have difficulties too. I look forward to seeing my father, my sister and my wolf-dog when I die. I believe those we've loved who've gone before us will be there to greet us. Then someday I'll be there to greet those who die after I do.

    I feel like I'm <mod edit - methods>, but I'm not quite ready. My roommate looks out and, instead of telling me to come back inside, tells me to try to sell my possession before I lose my home. She must not understand how I'm feeling. She acts like she still likes me and cares about me,...except that when I told her that I'm trying to stay calm enough so I don't want to kill myself, she said that if I do, that's my choice.

    Maybe it's better to do this sooner, rather than wait until the last possible moment? Then she'll have more time to sell my stuff and try to get some money out of it. I'm not really angry toward her. She's just trying to do what she has to do to survive. She has a stronger survival instinct than I do, so she's able to tell herself that I'll be ok.

    My instinct seems to be to put other people's needs ahead of my own, and to maybe to devalue my own. I have an appointment on Monday to try to get Medi-Cal and CalFresh (like food stamps), but I don't expect to live long enough to use either. I'm still making sure my roommate's TV shows record. I'm still shoplifting food and dog food for her and her dog, so she'll pay me money that I can put toward our shared internet expense. I picked up all my No Copy items from our virtual world land.

    If nobody really cares if I live or die, if I'm homeless, if I'm scared, if I'm in danger... then why is it so hard to <mod edit - methods> ?
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 22, 2016
  2. Rockclimbinggirl

    Rockclimbinggirl SF climber Staff Member Safety & Support SF Supporter

    @Persephone2 I care about you. Are there other ways that you can reach out and get yourself some help.
    Persephone2 likes this.
  3. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Seeing is Believing Forum Pro SF Supporter

    Sorry you are feeling this is the end of the line for you, have you looked into alternative housing options? I have been homeless for a year and half and there were days that was just all about where to rest my head next. I lived in my car. Camping is sometimes a necessity maybe you can think about that as possessions means nothing when you have your dog with you.
    Persephone2 likes this.
  4. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    I feel like I'm too old to live homeless and lose not only my possessions, but the only real friend I thought I had. This dog is not bonded to me as much as my previous dog was. She would probably be happy in another home, so letting her go to someone else is for the best. I've had her since she was 2 years old, so she's probably 12 years old now.
  5. ThePhantomLady

    ThePhantomLady Safety and Support SF Supporter

    I am so, so sorry that you're feeling this low about it all

    Have you banged on every door to help you get out of this situation? Have you talked to authorities, local charities? Churches? Anything?

    There has to be a better way to go than this. Please don't give up! Keep fighting, keep asking for help.
  6. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    I've gone to a Crisis Respite Center and got addresses and phone numbers from them for places I might stay. Before I called those, I went to the County Assistance office and have an appointment for Monday to try to get Medi-Cal and CalFresh (like food stamps). I also called a wellness center and made an appointment to see a doctor (their prerequisite to seeing a therapist), but my appointment isn't until April. I should have applied for aid 4 or 5 years ago, but I let my anxiety, depression and not wanting to be on public assistance keep me from getting help. I didn't know where to go either.

    In order to fight, one has to want to fight. I don't feel like I want to fight anymore. I just want the emotional pain to be over.
  7. AlexiMarie7

    AlexiMarie7 Staff Member Safety & Support

    First, no. But it is good and sometimes cathartic to speak to others (when they are not judging).

    I understand about fighting for something you do not even want. But hope is hard to out entirely since we do not know the future. So, I am glad that you have taken the steps and have an appointment to get some help. Churches are a good-ish option; you don't have to believe in whatever faith but you can even go to their office during the day if open to explain your situation.

    I believe in reincarnation also, but this makes me believe it gets worse upon suicide, not for the act alone per se but for the severing of the connections that are or were meant to be with others and the impact on their lives (not just their grief). So it may be a heavy karmic debt. I too know how it is viewed as honourable in other places. Life can have some happy and beautiful moments. It's probably also harder I think when you do not have children and feel like you can make a 'clean break' but it's never really clean.

    I guess you can just change your thoughts, do it consistently and make your reality better. You control your thoughts; they don't control you. Is it hard? No doubt. But you can do it. Dig deep.
    sahel and JmpMster like this.
  8. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    You don't have will to fight because at this point it is all effort and no results. That is because it is the earliest part of the process. When results start coming from the efforts and you start to regain some independence and not be 100% reliant on this one friend that provided all for so many years, you may well start actually living again, something the codependent life style made you able to avoid for years, and things may get much much better for you. More importantly, you may be able to see it is not losing a friend because they got sick, it is becoming a friend to them and putting yourself in a position to be a peer and friend and not in a caregiver/dependent relationship calling it another name. While painful and requiring a lot of effort in the moment it could well be looked at as opportunity and impetus to actually find your own life again that would have meaning to you. Just keep the effort going on these early parts so the y have time to bear fruit.

    You should be very proud of the amount you have accomplished recently- it is a lot of effort and you are managing it , it is worth being proud that you are more capable to deal with things yourself than you had given yourself credit for.
  9. Nithin Adarsh

    Nithin Adarsh Banned Member

    Please dont give up my friend.We all do care about you.Just dont give up my friend.
  10. DrownedFishOnFire

    DrownedFishOnFire Seeing is Believing Forum Pro SF Supporter

    Understand about the bond with the dog. I have had several Cats/dogs throughout my life and I have very few that was my soul dog or cat. I totally get it.

    For the rest of the stuff. Your age is actually to your benefit. People wont judge as harshly. Sometimes hospitalization can be a good option force some help as social worker at the hospital has to find you a place to stay and resources set up for u
    Persephone2 and JmpMster like this.
  11. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    Really excellent point and possible real big assistance worth considering..
  12. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    Thanks for all the kind, considerate responses above.

    I went to the county assistance office today and got my EBT card (food assistance). It's good for about $75 for February and $ 150 for March. Getting food to eat is not my problem though, because aside from this assistance and a local food closet I go to once each month, I also know where and how to shoplift small amounts of food and necessities.

    My paperwork to get Medi-Cal has also been turned in, but won't be active until right around the time I lose my current home. This is the address I've put down for everything, so this is where all my paperwork will come back to for now. That address can be changed if I get a new one. There are places I could go, but they all have waiting lists, and I haven't applied yet.

    It's important for me to keep my car and phone working, but I don't have money to maintain these things and may not be able to get it in time. If I could get SSI disability payments I could, but there may not be enough time between getting on Medi-Cal and being able to get properly assessed to get SSI disability status for my anxiety and depression.

    My primary problem still seems to be my sense of loss and hopelessness. As I said already, it's hard to fight when one doesn't feel like fighting anymore. I want to be dead, but I don't really want to kill myself. For years now, I've felt like I "should", but when it comes right down to it, there is still a part of me that wants to keep living. If I had gotten assistance even a year ago, maybe I could still live here now. My roommate can't stand the living conditions we've had for the last year, with both me and the other boarder here. If I hadn't been so anxious and depressed that I couldn't take care of things right, if I could have had a job and been paying rent all this time, I don't think she'd be moving now.

    The other boarder doesn't seem too worried about finding another place to live. I gave him some information on places, and other people have given him suggestions too. He also gets plenty of SSI and SSI disability payments to live on. He's also the kind of optimistic person who believed God will always look out for him, whereas I see that plenty of people don't get a happy ending in this world and don't believe I'm entitled to have one either.

    I think part of the problem of having a high IQ is that I can imagine all the things that could go wrong. Studies have even shown that people who are unrealistically optimistic do better in life than people who are realistically pessimistic. That's because it's easier for them to be hopeful, and being hopeful, they try harder to achieve their goals. On the other hand, when one experiences roadblocks and loss in life, it's easy to think that nothing is going to work out favorably in the future either, so it's easy to want to give up.
  13. sahel

    sahel SF Supporter

    I am sorry for the situation that you are in. You mentioned that it's hard to fight when you don't even want to fight any more. I agree that sometimes it's really hard to believe that things will get better and that's why giving up is the easiest option. But not giving up and continuing the hard fight has very appealing results.You will have the sense of satisfaction because of your strength and the hard effort that you put, when you are seeing the early blooms of some positive changes. You will be so proud of yourself for not giving up. You believe in karma getting passed to your next life. This can be an extra source of strength for you to keep fighting. Because, by not giving up and putting efforts to make things better, you are collecting good karma and you are working on your abilities.:)
    We do care about you, and we are all big fans of you and on your side when you are fighting your battle.
    JmpMster likes this.
  14. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I think part of the problem of having a high IQ is that I can imagine all the things that could go wrong. Studies have even shown that people who are unrealistically optimistic do better in life than people who are realistically pessimistic. That's because it's easier for them to be hopeful, and being hopeful, they try harder to achieve their goals. On the other hand, when one experiences roadblocks and loss in life, it's easy to think that nothing is going to work out favorably in the future either, so it's easy to want to give up.

    Sounds like a very long handed way to say "self fulfilling prophecy", and if they actually "do better" then it is not "unrealistically optimistic", nor does it seem to be less insightful manner of approaching life. Everybody experiences roadblocks and loss in life. It is not the situation that causes depression or even long term issues, it is the reaction to the situation. It is undoubtedly easier to give up and to believe it does not matter what you do therefore absolve yourself of any responsibility- simply claim nothing you can do and feel fine with results as unavoidable- but the fact is doing nothing is just another choice regardless of justification. If you actually try hard and then fail then you risk feeling like you really were not good enough. Small effort is a self defense mechanism for many.

    I think that the food card is a substantial improvement over stealing food, particularly if it is available so there is no need to steal and hurt other people in the process of surviving. SSI will not ever be approved in a matter of days/weeks so looking into other ways to survive is needed, and actually following through on applying for the living arrangements is still needed. As a fallback setting up a PO Box or mail drop place is a good idea so that you can still get information from the agencies consistently after they stop delivering mail at your friends residence- many places as soon as they get an item returned as un-deliverable instantly suspend all actions because they cannot verify your residence in the area any more. For phone you can conserve cash by getting one of the free phones available through many agencies and programs.

    The best way to have a chance of getting SSI after not working (particularly if you do not have very well documented treatment ofr the last 2-3 years for anxiety and depression) is to get a job or series of job. If you work and are able then you do not need. If you are unable and work a series of entry level jobs and still fail at your education level then you have something to verify you are not capable of working as opposed to you do not want to. The burden of proving disability is on you, if there are not regular treatments records then the only way to prove it is to show unsuccessful attempts at working ( not unsuccessful attempts to get a job- as that has no bearing on ability to work, and will result in referral to resume and interview classes). In either case , SSI is not a "fast" process at all, and the partial paychecks from attempting will still be of great use if you want to maintain the car.
  15. booklovr

    booklovr Well-Known Member

    I can't tell you perse ...how much love care affection and concern emanates from my whole heart for you.
    It always seems like an easy option to let go.
    ohhh i wish i could take all your misery on me and light your face up with a smile.
    I'm not aware if technicalities so i can't give you advice.
    All i can tell you (this probably sounds fake ) that i .me.i really really care for you.
    Itd really really kill me if you suffered.
    Its just me.far across on some corner of the world.i know its not enough.it s not going to give you a reason to live..but its all i got.
    A thousand hugs.
  16. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    Trying to quote a study without having a link to it was obviously a mistake. The study in question had an objective fail/success rate for math problems. Some participants were told they were more likely to succeed than they really were, while others were told the actual chances of success. Those who thought their chance of success was better did slightly better than those who knew their actual chances. Results from these kinds of studies tend to not be consistent though. Some studies show that optimistic people live longer than pessimistic people. Others show that pessimistic people live longer. Arguments can be made either way.

    If a person believes they can smoke cigarettes, engage in risky behavior, eat anything they like and still live a long, healthy life, they might do all these things and still live a long, healthy, happy life. Statistically, insurance companies expect they'll have a shorter live, but maybe life expectancy is more about genetics than lifestyle anyway.

    Here are some related articles:



  17. Persephone2

    Persephone2 Active Member

    1. A Post Office box costs about $100 for a year, at which point one gets one month free. I know this because I got my mother a post office box when someone was stealing her retirement checks from her mailbox. I don't have money for a post office box now, but I might possibly have some in the future.

    2. The EBT card only provides $ 150/ month and does not include purchases for non-food items such as St. John's wort capsules, shampoo, toilet paper or feminine hygiene products. While it does reduce my dependency on shoplifting for survival, it does not eliminate it. I also do some dumpster diving, which provides some fresh fruit, veggies and bread, but does not provide an adequate diet for the cost of gasoline to drive to many dumpsters. Personally, I don't believe that stealing a little food to survive is that bad. Though I'd rather not have to steal to survive, I place the hunger and health of person above the profit of a corporation. I also try to pick items that are about to expire and thus be thrown out or are already on sale.
  18. JmpMster

    JmpMster Have a question? Message Me Staff Member Forum Owner ADMIN

    I guess I am unsure what any of these have to do with positive thinking except when it is perception that effects effort like math problems - a very often quoted study btw- then yes positive thinking does in fact increase effort and increased effort effects results- all which is very applicable in your situation - but was not my statement about it anyway, and the fact is that if you believe the other links then neither optimism nor pessimism would have any influence on outcome and then we are just talking facts- and facts have little to do with subjective opinions of foretelling the future, particularly with a lot of science in place that can explain unrealistic pessimism associated with depression in general, and your own admission of inability to feel like it its worth it and lack of will- all emotions and feelings known to be severely impacted by depression. Since you mention St John Wart, it would seem a reasonable guess you do believe you are suffering from depression and that you do believe it alters accurate perception of the world around you , otherwise there would be no reason to take it.

    I am unsure where you were arguing- but yes- if you have no way to continue your applications for any other benefits or do to residency issues then there will in fact be a substantial difficulty in ever receiving them, If it takes 4 weeks instead 2 -3 weeks then having the whole case thrown for $8/month PO box and not being contacted or mail returned would be a substantial issue. While of course an EBT card lacks coverage for many necessities, $150/ month ($1800/year is more than my personal grocery bill for a year) in food is a LOT less dumpster diving and shoplifting- and shoplifting does NOTHING to corporate profits- they simply increase the price for everybody else for the losses plus security, aside from putting yourself at risk so anything reducing your reliance on shop lifting as a manner of support would seem to be a good thing, regardless of how optimistic you are about your ability to no get caught (an optimism you do not share about many other things it would seem).

    What advise or ideas you think may help your situation are entirely up to you- this is peer support- nobody is presumed to be more right or correct than anybody else. If the advice or ideas resonate as having value to you , consider them, if they do not, ignore them completely , somebody took time to listen and reply, but it did not help you, and realistically did not hurt you either. At worse case you got no useful advice for your situation but was there something else of greater value to your to do with that 3 minutes of time it took to read to change your life situation?
  19. Big M

    Big M Well-Known Member

    I'm not gonna lie and say I don't feel like you pretty regularly these last few years. My circumstances are not as tough as yours but please don't hurt yourself. Do you have any siblings that would help you at all?
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