organized labor unions in the U.S.

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by hellwithhugewounds, Dec 30, 2008.

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  1. hellwithhugewounds

    hellwithhugewounds Well-Known Member

    I bet everyone in the states know that the big 3 Detroit car makers almost collapsed. While the govt was still debating whether or not to bail them out, news organizations (if you can call fox news a news organization) were blatantly calling for de-unionization and painting unions as the source of the problem.

    I thought the U.S. wasn't anti-union anymore, hasn't been for like half a century, but the public would not have allowed these news organizations to insult (or what i consider insults) unions to that extent if they are as pro-union as I am. There must be some public support for de-unionization for news organizations to voice this opinion.

    I thought arguments against the legitimacy of unions was off the table in the U.S., but apparently it's not.

    What do you think? Are unions good or bad and why?
    (Interpret "good" and "bad" however you want, within the boundaries of reason, ie don't define "good" as "something that contains butter" :biggrin:)
  2. JohnADreams

    JohnADreams Well-Known Member

    I think the only reason it was off the table is because they had nothing with which to make a good case for union busting. It seems like the right wing in American will take any disaster they can and turn it into an opportunity to change things to their own liking.

    Unions are good in principle. Although there may be some instances where they cause harm to the economy, there is a need for unions to provide a way for workers to demand fair treatment. Without unions, we'd all be working for pennies, in dangerous conditions, with little time off or concern for our well being.
  3. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    You are 100% right
    Unions even though thay are bad for the overall economy
    thay are good for people themselfs!
    I only wish there were unions in Ukraine becouse nowdays
    workers have bearly any rights, many people i know work from 10 to 14 hours
    every day just so that thay could servive, and we earn only about 250$
    if we do so, me for example cant work more then 8 hours and i have
    a real big problem to find any job at all becouse of that

    So just for the example, here in ukraine the prices are as high as in europe, but the everage income
    is like 1\4 of that in europe, now go live with that :X
  4. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Serves you right for getting greedy.
  5. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    What type of union?

    Some workers unions are inherently bad for the workers. The Soviets in Russia that started the Soviet Union (They didn't just make the word up from nowhere) were supposed to be good in principle. However, after the Bolsheviks came to power in Russia, the Soviets gave Stalin the ability to implement the first five, Five Year Plans. Even though the Five Year Plans did bring Russia to an industrial levels, they ended up killing off a lot of people.

    The type of unions in the Big Three aren't really that good. However, on the flip side, they're really not that bad either. American Unions are half-way of the type of union I support. They focus on uniting some workers for a specific industry. While it's a good start, I'd rather see a union focus on all workers for a specific industry, if not a union that supports all workers, period. Fighting for your rights as a worker is a good thing, but if you're not going to share said rights with the rest of the workforce, what's the point?

    Ultimately, I think the good kind of unions are the ones that inherently democratic, focus on being inclusive rather than exclusive, focus on things like safety and well being before increasing salaries, hourly wages, and overall paychecks, and strive to improve the individual position of each worker as opposed to solely the members of a union.
  6. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    The entire right wing is anti labor.........

    That is the platform of their party
  7. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    Of course unions are evil, why would you give workers rights when their only purpose is to serve their masters? :patriot:

    Human rights are there for those who can afford it, that is how it has always been.
  8. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    As a former Soviet child, and a child for Soviet parents
    I must say that the Soviet goverment and way of life was much
    better then Capitalisem in the western countrys.
    And while every singel goverment killin people in one way or another
    Soviet socialisem killed the weak people just the same as the western
    capitalisem SLOWLY BUT SURELY killing too.
    the only diffreance is that soviets admited it, and the westerns didnt.

  9. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    That statement... was so... incredibly retarded my heart skipped a beat.
  10. anonymous51

    anonymous51 Staff Alumni

    I am sure capitalist countries have killed just as many people as the soviet union, the difference is is that the capitalists let other people do their dirty work for them. Vietnam, the countless civil wars in south america, pol pot, the Al queda, all a result of capitalist organisation.
  11. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    dude i beliave in the soviet union, its a shame its no longer there :(
  12. Random

    Random Well-Known Member

    Now your posts in the other thread make a little more sense.
  13. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    You can't be serious.

    Do I need to bring up the Great Purge?
    The Gulags?
    Shooting down flight 007?
    The Afghanistan war?
    The breakdown of the Soviet economy to fight World War II?

    Every government has killed people, I'll whole heartedly agree with you there. However, the difference is that the Western world has largely progressed away from killing off the weak and is working against this.

    You can bring up the United States, and I'll say "Fine". However, take a look at Norway, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Spain, Post-World War II Western Germany, England, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. All social, Capitalist countries, and all far better off then Russia or any of the former Eastern bloc countries.
  14. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    Im too tired now to really dig into it but lets say it this way...
    you only know about the soviet union from what they teach you in school
    while me and parents lived as part of it, so i got advantage here
    and i say it was the best time of my life (and my parents)
  15. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    I agree...

    ...because I'm completely incapable of doing my own research, and forming my own opinions. I'm glad that it was the best time of your life, but you still haven't addressed any of the examples I provided.
  16. hellwithhugewounds

    hellwithhugewounds Well-Known Member

    Lol good luck making that come true. Been 18 years already...
  17. hellwithhugewounds

    hellwithhugewounds Well-Known Member

    Strangely I actually agree with you on this one. I lived in former communist China for 9 years, and I've gotta say that the sense of community (communist, lol) was really overwhelmingly awesome. Everyone was so generous, much more than here. There's just so much more closeness... and other stuff that I don't quite remember very well.
  18. Summer.Rain

    Summer.Rain Well-Known Member

    Do I need to bring up the Great Purge?
    Same things happened all over the world even in the usa
    the only diffrance is that USA couldnt really kill any one so thay
    just made them be less the humans (the black people or the indians)

    The Gulags?
    The Gulags were sort of jails but insted of just feeding the prissioners
    like thay do in the usa, thay forced them to work for the benefit of the country!

    Shooting down flight 007?
    Every one do mistakes!

    It was in urkaine not the soviet union, and it was an incident actually...

    The Afghanistan war?
    So? how about USA in Iraq?

    The breakdown of the Soviet economy to fight World War II?
    Brakedown? how about the great economical fall in the usa?
    the soviet union never was even close to it!

    Overall as you can see, the soviet union was the same as the rest of the
    world with one difference, while in the rest of the world you had to work
    8 to 14 hours just so that you could survive.
    in the soviet union you worked 6 hours and you could afford EVERYTHING
    and im not even talking about all the free stuff (cars, appartnemts, educations, medical treatment, etc)
  19. hammockmonkey

    hammockmonkey Well-Known Member

  20. Aeterna

    Aeterna Account Closed

    Did you even bother reading the last part of what I wrote?

    "You can bring up the United States, and I'll say "Fine". However, take a look at Norway, Finland, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Spain, Post-World War II Western Germany, England, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands. All social, Capitalist countries, and all far better off then Russia or any of the former Eastern bloc countries."

    That immediately invalidates your point about The Great Purges, The Gulags, The Afghanistan War, and the breakdown of the Soviet Economy to fight World War II.

    The Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant was part of the Soviet Union when the incident occurred. Everyone does make mistakes, I'll grant that. However, I'd rather not live in a country that shoots down planes carrying diplomats.
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