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Panicking. Don't know what to do

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AsphyxiateOnWords

Pretty rhymes break angels.
#61
I'm sorry you have a difficult relationship with your mother too @gypsylee :(

I don't know what I've ever done for her to dislike me so much. The difference between how my older brother and I were treated as children is striking. I always thought I was being over sensitive about it or maybe she did treat my brother the same way when he was alone but recent conversations with him have confirmed the difference. In fact, he's told me things I don't even remember as I was too young. Maybe one day I'll have the courage to ask her why...

I hope I've broken the cycle with my children too. I hope they know I love them unconditionally, I try to show it as much as possible but I worry that somehow I've damaged them.
My brother and I were treated very differently, and still are. We both have social anxiety, and yet, she constantly goes out of her way to help him with shit, like making doctor's appointments, while I've always been told to do it myself and deal with it. I've come to the conclusion that it's likely it's a cultural thing with my family, where females are supposed to be the "strong" head of household and deal with their own, and everyone else's, shit without complaining. So my brother tends to get special treatment in that way. And when it comes to me, she wants me to be exactly like her. Just as well, there's things that I'm sure he's felt like I get special treatment on, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were true. Truth is she's fucked both of us up pretty severely in the parenting department.
 
#62
@Winter Blues and @Angel368 I went for the appointment at the recovery college this afternoon. Nearly didn't make it as I had to walk through town from the car park and then I couldn't find the building. But they put me at ease once I got there and the courses sounded interesting. I'm booked onto a six week course starting mid April called "Welcome to Recovery".
I am SO glad Lulabelle ... small steps - just look after yourself xx
 

may71

Well-Known Member
#63
Because it would hit him financially if he left. And because it would make him look bad
That might be part of the reason why he's been unfaithful, but not necessarily all of it.

Infidelity is wrong, and it is a sign of a problem in the marriage, but I don't think it means that he doesn't have any love for you.
 

AsphyxiateOnWords

Pretty rhymes break angels.
#64
That might be part of the reason why he's been unfaithful, but not necessarily all of it.

Infidelity is wrong, and it is a sign of a problem in the marriage, but I don't think it means that he doesn't have any love for you.
Love consists of infidelity? Last I checked, it mainly consisted of trust, loyalty, and respect...infidelity is the exact opposite of all of that. I'm not saying he doesn't care about her, but I wouldn't call that love. On the other hand, she's forgiven him several times for breaking that trust, loyalty, and respect toward her. THAT is love.
 

may71

Well-Known Member
#65
Love consists of infidelity?
I never said that love consisted of infidelity. I'm not sure why you would think I was saying that.

Infidelity is wrong. But it's also a mistake to make any kind of knee-jerk reaction to it. It's not necessarily the case that she should come to the conclusion that Nick doesn't love her at all, and that the best thing to do is to throw away 27 years of marriage. I'm not saying she shouldn't divorce him over this, but it would be a mistake to divorce someone simply because one has been lead to believe that this is automatically the right thing to do when someone has been unfaithful.
 

AsphyxiateOnWords

Pretty rhymes break angels.
#66
I never said that love consisted of infidelity. I'm not sure why you would think I was saying that.

Infidelity is wrong. But it's also a mistake to make any kind of knee-jerk reaction to it. It's not necessarily the case that she should come to the conclusion that Nick doesn't love her at all, and that the best thing to do is to throw away 27 years of marriage. I'm not saying she shouldn't divorce him over this, but it would be a mistake to divorce someone simply because one has been lead to believe that this is automatically the right thing to do when someone has been unfaithful.
You said it didn't mean he didn't love her despite the infidelity. I'm failing to understand how cheating and making the person feel worthless is synonymous with loving them. What you're essentially saying is that despite continued actions (on his end) which show the opposite of love, love can still exist. Also, his reasoning doesn't matter. There's no good enough reason to do that. If there's a problem, you either address it or you grow a set of balls and tell the person you want to break up. Going behind her back, however, and completely destroying her self-esteem in the process (which, as you can see, he's accomplished quite splendidly) shows cowardice and a deep-seated hatred for oneself. The decision is hers regardless. I just don't understand your reasoning here.
 
#67
Ok I am a man that is faithful to my wife because I truly live her. If I was in a relationship where I cheated twice already and the woman didn' leave or begged my to stay I would continue to cheat because there is no consequences to my actions. There is no reconciliation because the trust and vows of marriage are broken. If you would of left him the first time the next two wouldn' have happened. I' not sure what your situation is other then me guessing that you are a stay at home mom and he supports the whole family. Here is my advice stand up be a strong woman (because after all you are an example to your kids) and leave him so he can't keep hurting you or your family. You need to find a man that truly loves you for you. You will also be showing your kids(if you have some) to stand up to anyone even their father if they are in the wrong.
 

may71

Well-Known Member
#68
I'm failing to understand how cheating and making the person feel worthless is synonymous with loving them
I'm failing to see why you think I'm saying that.
If you'd like to claim that I'm saying that, please quote the part where I said that.

What you're essentially saying is that despite continued actions (on his end) which show the opposite of love, love can still exist
Yes, up to a point. Yelling at someone, or expressing anger toward them, could rightly be called showing the opposite of love. At the same time, what couple has never done this? So what I'm saying is that it's possible for someone to do something that shows the opposite of love sometimes, and still love someone.

If someone does nothing but show the opposite of love, or mostly shows the opposite of love, then I would be very skeptical that they love someone.

Lula doesn't seem to be saying that Nick mostly does things that are the opposite of love. I would agree though that, since there is evidence that he's cheating, Nick is at least sometimes doing something that could be called the opposite of love.

Also, his reasoning doesn't matter. There's no good enough reason to do that
I don't think I said anything about his reasoning. I'd agree that he shouldn't be cheating.

The decision is hers regardless
I think this is the main point I'm trying to make.

It's easy for someone on the outside to say "you've got to leave him because he's cheated". It's also easy for someone on the oustside to say "you've got to stay with him even though he's cheated". Lula's the only one who has to live with the consequences of her decision, so my hope is that she going to decide what's the best thing to do, rather than let other people try to decide for her.

Maybe folks here will have some insightful observations or opinions that might be helpful, but I don't think that anyone should try to pick what she should do for her.

I'd understand why she'd want to leave Nick over this, if that's what she decided to do.

I'd also understand why she would want to try to save the marriage, if that's what she decided to do.
 

AsphyxiateOnWords

Pretty rhymes break angels.
#69
I'm failing to see why you think I'm saying that.
If you'd like to claim that I'm saying that, please quote the part where I said that.


Yes, up to a point. Yelling at someone, or expressing anger toward them, could rightly be called showing the opposite of love. At the same time, what couple has never done this? So what I'm saying is that it's possible for someone to do something that shows the opposite of love sometimes, and still love someone.

If someone does nothing but show the opposite of love, or mostly shows the opposite of love, then I would be very skeptical that they love someone.

Lula doesn't seem to be saying that Nick mostly does things that are the opposite of love. I would agree though that, since there is evidence that he's cheating, Nick is at least sometimes doing something that could be called the opposite of love.


I don't think I said anything about his reasoning. I'd agree that he shouldn't be cheating.



I think this is the main point I'm trying to make.

It's easy for someone on the outside to say "you've got to leave him because he's cheated". It's also easy for someone on the oustside to say "you've got to stay with him even though he's cheated". Lula's the only one who has to live with the consequences of her decision, so my hope is that she going to decide what's the best thing to do, rather than let other people try to decide for her.

Maybe folks here will have some insightful observations or opinions that might be helpful, but I don't think that anyone should try to pick what she should do for her.

I'd understand why she'd want to leave Nick over this, if that's what she decided to do.

I'd also understand why she would want to try to save the marriage, if that's what she decided to do.
There is a lot I could say, but I'm not going to bother because I'd be wasting my energy.
 

Lara_C

SF Supporter
#70
For many people infidelity is a deal breaker, yet genuine reconciliation does happen sometimes. Sometimes cheating partners are very remorseful when they realise the heartbreak they have caused and are willing to do whatever the betrayed partner needs to restore trust. A reluctance to be completely open and transparent, as well as to undertake therapy to address the issues in the relationship and in the character of the wayward one, would be danger signs that they are attempting to sweep the betrayal under the carpet rather than do the hard work necessary to prove their remorse. Ultimately, there is no guarantee that the restoration of trust and genuine reconciliation will happen despite the remorse of the unfaithful partner, but imo therapy gives the best chance of recovery.
 
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#72
I'm not sure how to describe a recovery college @Kiwi2016... They run wellness courses rather than therapy. Some of the courses are on specific areas of mental health recovery while others are more fun workshop type courses on photography, crafts etc.

I'm seeing my CPN tomorrow and my therapist on Friday so I'll talk to them both before deciding what to do about Nick.
Sounds like an interesting idea one which we could use in US...but also understand that would be difficult to deal with that with all that is going as well. Glad that you are keeping your appointments and feeling a bit calmer. You are in my thoughts and sending you hugs...
 

Sunspots

Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#73
Oh god! What the fuck is wrong with me???

I met with my CPN today. We met in Costa again. I was worried about getting too emotional in public but really needed to talk to him about what's happened this week and about something else that I can't talk about here due to the methods rule.

He was running late and I was trying so hard not to let the panic take over. When he finally arrived he told me I looked great (I had to put on a tonne of makeup to walk through town) and asked how the recovery college had gone yesterday. I told him it seemed helpful and I've signed up for the course. He was over the moon and thought it was an excellent next step that I'd get a lot from. He then went on to say that seeing as I'm doing so well, he'd like to take a step back and see how I get on on my own. He asked how I felt about that and before I could stop myself I agreed. He said it can be counterproductive to continue when things were going well and patients can become too reliant and therefore not move forward themselves.

I just didn't know what to say. I wanted to tell him but it felt wrong to say anything there. So he told me I could phone him if I needed to, gave me a hug and left.

I feel like I've been cut adrift. Why couldn't I just tell him? But maybe he's right. Maybe I'm too reliant on outside support when I should be reliant on myself. Maybe he's done as much as he can.
 

AsphyxiateOnWords

Pretty rhymes break angels.
#74
Oh god! What the fuck is wrong with me???

I met with my CPN today. We met in Costa again. I was worried about getting too emotional in public but really needed to talk to him about what's happened this week and about something else that I can't talk about here due to the methods rule.

He was running late and I was trying so hard not to let the panic take over. When he finally arrived he told me I looked great (I had to put on a tonne of makeup to walk through town) and asked how the recovery college had gone yesterday. I told him it seemed helpful and I've signed up for the course. He was over the moon and thought it was an excellent next step that I'd get a lot from. He then went on to say that seeing as I'm doing so well, he'd like to take a step back and see how I get on on my own. He asked how I felt about that and before I could stop myself I agreed. He said it can be counterproductive to continue when things were going well and patients can become too reliant and therefore not move forward themselves.

I just didn't know what to say. I wanted to tell him but it felt wrong to say anything there. So he told me I could phone him if I needed to, gave me a hug and left.

I feel like I've been cut adrift. Why couldn't I just tell him? But maybe he's right. Maybe I'm too reliant on outside support when I should be reliant on myself. Maybe he's done as much as he can.
It was a chain reaction that started off with him saying he was running late. You didn't want to get into it when he said that because you didn't want to hold him up it seems. And then everything after that made it seem like it was too late to say anything. Similar things have happened to me before with counselors. I would either call him back and explain what happened or get someone else to talk to. The way things went was nobody's fault, and it's totally okay to need help and assert yourself to obtain it. You don't have to be able to solve everything yourself.
 

Sunspots

Forum Pro
SF Supporter
#75
I saw my therapist on Friday. Told her everything - about finding the condoms, about preparing suicide methods, about what happened with my CPN on Thursday.

She made me promise to contact the CPN -I couldn't bring myself to phone him so have written him a letter telling him everything I should have said on Thursday.

We talked through my preparing methods. I have no intention of following through at the moment and hope I never do. But I feel a need to have things prepared, an escape route if I need it. She seemed satisfied (ish) with that.

We talked through the condoms and talked about other reasons he may have them - some men prefer to wank into a condom, my son may have left them lying around, we've used condoms in the past so maybe they're just left over... When he's had affairs before there were so many signs - work trips, going out for drinks after work, catching him out lying about where he's been etc. I knew he was having an affair long before I had any hard evidence. This time it's very different. For a start our relationship is better than it's been for years. I've had no inkling about any lies and seen no other hint. He's always at home with me apart from one day a week in the office. If he was having an affair I'm pretty sure there would have been a work trip or a need to stay down there overnight. If something has happened, it's likely to have been a one night stand.
I also spoke to my best friend about it on Saturday. She's not always been his biggest fan but even she said she can't see it. She said he's really surprised her this year with how supportive he's been to me and how he's really stood up to the plate. She's had long conversations with him while I've been in hospital and he's been in pieces.

So... Please don't shoot me down in flames but I'm not going to confront him over it. I really don't think he's having an affair. He may have had a one night stand but I think I can live with that and to be honest at the moment I'd rather not know. He's been amazingly brilliant this last year but I'm sure it's taken its toll on him. If he has had a one night stand, maybe it's what he needed to do at that time. Maybe he just needed to let off steam, I don't know.

I've seen my therapist again today and we spoke some more. I told her my thoughts and she thought I was making a good decision for me. I'll be keeping an eye on that packet in his bag and reassess if need be but at the moment I'm feeling OK with it all.
 
#76
I saw my therapist on Friday. Told her everything - about finding the condoms, about preparing suicide methods, about what happened with my CPN on Thursday.

She made me promise to contact the CPN -I couldn't bring myself to phone him so have written him a letter telling him everything I should have said on Thursday.

We talked through my preparing methods. I have no intention of following through at the moment and hope I never do. But I feel a need to have things prepared, an escape route if I need it. She seemed satisfied (ish) with that.

We talked through the condoms and talked about other reasons he may have them - some men prefer to wank into a condom, my son may have left them lying around, we've used condoms in the past so maybe they're just left over... When he's had affairs before there were so many signs - work trips, going out for drinks after work, catching him out lying about where he's been etc. I knew he was having an affair long before I had any hard evidence. This time it's very different. For a start our relationship is better than it's been for years. I've had no inkling about any lies and seen no other hint. He's always at home with me apart from one day a week in the office. If he was having an affair I'm pretty sure there would have been a work trip or a need to stay down there overnight. If something has happened, it's likely to have been a one night stand.
I also spoke to my best friend about it on Saturday. She's not always been his biggest fan but even she said she can't see it. She said he's really surprised her this year with how supportive he's been to me and how he's really stood up to the plate. She's had long conversations with him while I've been in hospital and he's been in pieces.

So... Please don't shoot me down in flames but I'm not going to confront him over it. I really don't think he's having an affair. He may have had a one night stand but I think I can live with that and to be honest at the moment I'd rather not know. He's been amazingly brilliant this last year but I'm sure it's taken its toll on him. If he has had a one night stand, maybe it's what he needed to do at that time. Maybe he just needed to let off steam, I don't know.

I've seen my therapist again today and we spoke some more. I told her my thoughts and she thought I was making a good decision for me. I'll be keeping an eye on that packet in his bag and reassess if need be but at the moment I'm feeling OK with it all.
Hi Lulabelle, at the end of the day it must be your decision and what your gut instinct says is right. We don’t know your husband and therefore judging him is wrong really. SF will support you - not shoot you down! We just care about you and want you safe and at peace with life. Take care, sweetheart - always here - and I truly, truly hope all things work out well xxxx
 

Lara_C

SF Supporter
#77
So... Please don't shoot me down in flames but I'm not going to confront him over it. I really don't think he's having an affair. He may have had a one night stand but I think I can live with that and to be honest at the moment I'd rather not know. He's been amazingly brilliant this last year but I'm sure it's taken its toll on him.
You are in charge -we are only here to support you in whatever you see is right for you. I don't think there was any affair and the other explanations you mention did cross my mind. I'm glad you spoke with your therapist about it and that your friend is there for you.
 
#78
I am glad that you were able to talk openly with your therapist and that you have found and are acting on a "solution" that is right for you ...we are always here to support you...so be gentle on yourself and take care my friend,,,sending you hugs...
 
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