Partner lost father to suicide -

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Craig1994, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Hi all,

    I'm just creating this thread to try and get some help on our current situation. We're both gay, 18, and love eachother more than anything in the world, although we both struggle to feel that at times.

    A few years ago my partner lost his father to suicide. He told me at the start of our relationship and of course, was always very touchy in the way he talked about it. He tells me he never spoke about it to anybody, he could count on one hand how many times he spoke to his mother about it, and went through everything alone, until he met me. I changed his life for him. He realized that being gay was fine, and felt fine to admit that and came out very confidently just 6 months after meeting me in January. I know that I'm his life, that I mean the world to him, and without me he really struggles. Last night the relationship ended because he said just didnt feel anything anymore, he hated the responsibilty of feeling like he was destroying me because he didn't always feel like he loved me truly, and that he thinks that should be there in a relationship. I know that I am his entire world, but I'm an OCD sufferer and sometime demand certain things and affections which makes it so much harder for us both since we both want very different things in life.

    He tells me that he is over his father, and that if anything he feels more guilty for not missing him than anything. He felt when it happened almost glad, and that he felt he should have been treated differently for it. Of course he was growing up and never knew how to handle it, I would never hold anything against him like that since the things my OCD make me think are absolutely obscene, I so often wish he would die... it's the LAST thing I want, but I cant help but wish for that because my OCD makes me do it. He told me these things which I find particularly key

    ''Its the fact that Im terrified I have lost the feeling, and I don't want to have lost it, so I'm holding on, but I don't want to hold on cos I'm ruining you''

    ''I just want him (his dad) to be in charge and tell me how to grow up. mum can't do that And im sick of pretending to you that iI think everything is gonna be fine with us. I want to be alone so its only my life I ruin if I get things wrong, so its only me who I'm in charge of. I hate being the one who knows what to do, I hate all that I wish someone else did it for me''

    ''Him: I was proud that my dad had died, cos no one else's had and I could say he had. I felt different and like I should get special treatment. Is that bad? :(

    Me: It really isn't baby. I've wished my dad would die, so that I was equal with you. I've thought all sorts of things
    trust me, it isnt''

    ''it doesn't feel like a big deal, it wasn't at the time. I only really got upset at the funeral and the burial of his ashes
    Other than that it felt normal really''

    ''sometimes recently when life has felt like its all upside down and I'm ruining you and I'm angry I've wanted dad to be alive cos I thought maybe life would be better then frown I've thought maybe my life would be in a different place''

    Theres lots more I can share but I will keep this first post quite breif. I know I am his world, before he told me that I was all that mattered, but when it's come to making choices about university, life changes, he realized that I wasn't all he needed, and that tore me and my OCD apart, and I handled it in the completely wrong way, but I see that now and I've explained everything to him.

    I can only try my best to support him and know what to say, I really think he needs help, a therapist like his brother, or anything, or should I believe him when he tells me that he's come to terms with it? I'm just trying so hard to understand, to know what to say and try to say the right things, but I just don't think I know what to tell him anymore.

    What do you guys think? Is there any points you can help explain to me in his quotes, even a little? Seeing this boy so messed up inside and depressed is truly destroying me, he can't think clearly about anything, and relationship or no relationship, if he pulls out of this and decides that I'm not what he wants then I will be utterly destroyed, but at least I can say I held on until the last minute, and showed him how much I truly care for him, becuase I truly, truly do.

    Many thanks,
  2. Sadeyes

    Sadeyes Staff Alumni

    Hi Craig and is so caring that you are concerned about your ex in that way. How are you doing? Please remember to take care of yourself as well...and yes, he does sound like he needs sounds like he has walled off his emotions which is never a good way to deal with things
  3. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Thank you very much, and also for the reply. I'm doing okay, I'm heartbroken, for sure, but I realize that wallowing in my own pain isn't going to help him, and if I love him, theres one thing to do whether togetherness is the end scenario or not, and that's be there for him. To me that's what love is, and I want to say that I tried, and that I was there for him until the very last second. I just don't know how to help him anymore, and I think in losing me he feels like he's losing one of the things he cares so dearly about, and I hate to see him do that through confusion and being lost right now :(
  4. Samara

    Samara Account Closed

    Craig, he might feel the need to punish himself; he may be feeling very guilty right now, as he has stated in the things he said to you, and about questioning whether or not his need to get attention based on the death of a family member is even morally right etc...

    It seems reality might be hitting home a bit, and he is starting to think that he is just not the only person on the planet who has needs, or who suffers, or who gets affected by things; and he is beginning to look around in his surroundings. This IS part of the growing up process, I know he said that he wished his father was there, but tell him this: the purpose of a father is to teach you how to father yourself. It is to show you what you should do eventually for yourself, and every child must sit down and one day and realize that they need to separate what they need from their parent from what they can do for themselves.

    Every child must grow up, by taking on the roles of the parenthood within themselves. They must learn to father themselves, by providing for themselves, by leading themselves (choosing actions and accepting the consequences as well), handling their problems (problem solving), and simply learning not to always act on emotion (using rational thought before deciding what emotions to act on). These are the very basic and main things that we learn from our father figures in our lives, of course how our fathers teach us to do this, is based on how they handle the very same things; but this is not something he has lost, simply because his father passed.

    It is something within him, and he is beginning to see it now, but his emotions are tangling everything up. He needs to separate how he feels from what is rational, and it is not always easy, because sometimes the rational things hurt the most. He might be right in taking space from you, but he could be doing it for all the wrong reasons again. Fear of causing more damage, that he cannot manage, is what is leading him to push you away.

    He is starting to feel the pressure of life, and is cutting out things now, so he can minimize what he has to be in control of, and so that if something goes wrong, it will only be with a few things.

    But his reasons for cutting you out at this stage, if any, should actually be so that he can grow, and so that you are not there fathering him... because let's be honest here, you are absolutely acting like a mothering and fathering figure toward him. That is why he feels like he must always 'save face' and act like everything is fine in front of you. This is the same thing a teenager would do in front of their own parents. Mom would ask "how was your day, dear" he would respond "fine...".

    If you think about it a bit more, you might see that you are kind of encouraging him and supporting him, in a way that has taken over what his father would have done for him, if his father is still alive. It seems that he used you to avoid actually grieving, by having you replace those needs in his life; but now he might be recognizing just a little bit that he actually needs the real father... but he has no idea where to search for him, now that he has passed.

    But he needs to remember and know that the "real father" has always been himself, and he should look back on what his Paternal father actually taught him, and take from that, and begin fostering that in himself, to develop into a man who can begin taking care of himself as an adult.

    It is good that you still want to be there for him, but he has told you that some of your "being there", has caused him to maybe lose sight of what is actually going on, because he spends his time now trying to hide what is actually going on. So take a step back from the mothering/fathering role a bit, and open up again to talking to him about the things that are bothering him.... don't offer solutions, and do not try and change him as he talks... just listen to what he has to say, maybe agree, and talk about how you think some of what he says is true, if you find that you had similar experiences in your life etc...

    He needs a "different" kind of friend now, one who won't help him, but will listen. Just because you do not actively help him, it does not mean that he will not be helped... that help is up to him anyway, and you know it.

    Don't forget either, that a part of his being lost right now, will become a part of his finding his way, a part of his learning, a part of his experience to be gained, a part of his wisdom to come etc...

    Showing him the path and padding it down so he doesn't get hurt each time, you already know how that ends too.

    In the end you need to tell him, that he can let go of the intimate aspect, or the love aspect... that you don't need him to do that, if he doesn't feel it the way he thinks you expect. But just let him know that you have known him, and you like who you saw on the inside. You like the person that he is, and you will be there for the person he wants to be in the future, even if he doesn't always do everything that pleases you, he doesn't have to, because you are forgiving, and you are his friend, and you will be that person he can always know won't run away from him, or dump him off somewhere when things get heavy, or any other kind of circumstance.

    Let him know that all you really expect, is for him to be whoever he feels is right for him to be, and that you'd love in the future, to hang out again, and have a laugh, and not have to worry about where the relationship is going, or who needs what... but to just be two people again, who can spend some quality time together as friends.
  5. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Thank you so so much. I have read that post maybe 8/9 times to try and get a greater understanding, its helped me very much.

    Just one main question. He feels like he has lost me now, as a partner, last night he told me that I didnt make him feel special anymore, and that he didnt feel a thing for me, and yet tonight he is once again devestated that he has let me go (This has happened many times) No matter what I tell him. How should I react to this? I don't want him to feel like I am moving on, because I havnt even considered that just yet, but I dont want him to know that I'm hanging around waiting for him for when he gets himself back together because that will just place more pressure on his shoulders.

    Right now I'm just confused as to what I should tell him, that I'm still here ready to be a lover again, or that I'm unsure to? I'm almost certain that I want him back how it used to be, but I know that it wont be without this same problem if we dont cut it off now (It's been going on for months) What do you think I should tell him about us being together? we have agreed to take 2 weeks from eachother with minimal contact, we've never done a day before so we'll both find it hard. I'd prefer to cut most contact, but I know he is unstable, and my OCD often makes me worry for his mental state and makes me picture things.

    Here is all I have sent him tonight in a text message, and his reply

    ''What's got you down just now? I'm here Simon, tell me what you like when you like and if theres something you don't want to tell me just yet then thats fine to. I'm here. I'm watchng Grand-am and want to try and focus on the race and nothing else, I havnt done that in a long time. You'll be okay and I will to, it's not about us anymore, you need to think about Simon and I need to think about Craig and we need to get through this as best we can knowing we will be there for eachother. I care more than I can explain but I know what is important and what I want to do now. I will be there, I care Simon. Goodnight xxxxx''

    To which he replied in a cold manor for him:

    ''Okay, well, have fun, I hope the race is good, Night xxxxx'' and then a few minutes later ''Oh and also thanks for everything you said. To be honest I feel like I've lost you already and I've got no one to talk to. You're already moving on, and I know you are.''

    And finally ''Don't listen to me actually, just leave it, I'm f***** up, just carry on as you are, its alright, sorry xxxxx''

    This isn't the boy I know at all :( I feel so bad for him. I know that in showing him I'm waiting for him that will pressure him more, its happened before and a week later the problem came back, we both know he doesnt want to lose me, and that's a huge part of the problem.

    Thank you very much,
  6. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Our texts tonight, I'm so lost :(

    ''Simon, just listen. I can let go of the intimate aspect, and the love aspect, its to hard for that to work right now. I dont need you like that if you dont feel it the way you think I expect. I have known you, I saw Simon, and I love who he was inside. I like the person you are and I will always be there for the person you become in the future. I am fogiving and I am your friend and I will be the person who you know will never run away from you, or drop you when things get heavy, or any other circumstance, I'm your friend. All I expect is that you are whoever you feel is right for you to be. I dont want to worry about where we are heading, the future will deal deal with that. I just want to hang out and laugh and create more amazing memories that we both will cherish. We have decisions to make, we're 18 now, men, not boys. and we need to learn to look after ourselves and make decisions through reational thoughts and not emotions. If we can't look after ourselves, how will we ever look after eachother? xxxxx''

    ''That tells me everything I dont want to hear to be honest. I'm not sure whether I can hang out and laugh with you, because that's too painful for me. I'm in dispair, I feel ruined, I feel like nothing's worth anything anymore. I feel like my love for you is impossible, but all I want is to have you. In the sense that right now I'm just torn apart, destroyed, refusing to believe that I've lost you, yet I can't make us together something that works. I feel like I'll never get over that, like I will never get over you, even if i wasnt able to make it work. I wish I was in your position, asin, able to be rational, sensible, thoughtful, but at the moment I can't. I'm truly an utter mess Craig, I truly truly am. It feels like I need to know what you want now, because I cant go on being this or that to you when it's my fault that I'm this or that. I need you to tell me, honestly, what you see. Because if you dont see or dont want love or something like that anymore, then I need to know, because its tearing me apart. I dont know what I can or can't do anymore, and I cant tell you. Being grown ups with you, being sensible, I can't fathom at the moment, because I dont want to accept what's right. I need something clear Craig, and I dont know what :( xxxxx''
  7. Sadeyes

    Sadeyes Staff Alumni

    I am not sure you can give him the clarity he needs...and from these exchanges, it seems like he is protecting both of concern again, is to make sure to do what is best for you
  8. Samara

    Samara Account Closed

    Craig, I will respond to this after my work tomorrow, right now I must head to bed, but I have read your posts, and would like to say more, when I get back from work tomorrow. Just wanted to let you know that I do plan on responding to what you said, but just cannot do that yet.

    The text you sent did get him talking, though, it got him opening up a bit about what is really going on inside, the kind of conflict he is facing. Maybe by his admission to you that it's not what he wanted to hear, he is asking you to maybe step up and decide too, as in, kind of trying to make you decide, because he doesn't trust himself to make a decision and follow through with it.

    But again, that is another part of growing up too, is deciding something, and following through with it, including it's consequences, if any.

    But as Sadeyes suggested, this might just be something that you actually cannot clear up for him, but he is looking to you to father him again and basically decide for the both of you, just like a father would decide the direction of a family... and guide them. But... he seems to be misinterpreting a lot of what you say, and is taking it as a personal attack.

    He needs to put his defences down for a bit, calm his emotions for a second, and consider rationally what he wants. He said he wanted to go, yet somehow when you show that you accept that, he suddenly is wavering.

    He needs to, on his own, without you telling him anything, or recommending or suggesting anything, figure out, is he better off without you, or better off with you in his life. He needs to sit down and actually ask himself this, and take out the emotional aspects; by weighing in instead, what he gains by having you around, and considering what kinds of things you actually offer him as a human being, that he needs from you.

    In other words: he cannot unfairly ask you, to tell him what he should or should not want, indirectly, by asking you to tell him if you still love him, or if you want to move on... or any of these things. All of this was his idea at the end of the day, to break up, and take space, and all of these things.... so now he is unsure of his own decision. Again, that is not something you should ever answer for him, because if you do, he'd just be taking on your own ideas, and still will not have sat down and answered them for himself, without any outside influence.

    But I will get back to these things later on, as I said.
  9. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Thank you both very much :) I am very busy to reply at the moment but will reply fully soon. I am reading everything that each of you posts over and over, it means a lot to me. Thank you.
  10. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    I saw him again last night and we both just sat and talked in one of our favourite spots by a river for about 4 hours. We had no contact at first and then after a couple of hours of anticipation he began to touch my hand and slowly we kissed... it was electric, like our first kiss all over again, except with so much more emotion. Everything else was forgotten.

    :( I now see this boys troubles. I understand how harshly I acted in the past, and I know I came blame myself becuase I just did what I thought was best. It was never a case of him not feeling like he loved me, is just truly truly damaged by the loss of his father, and it makes it almost impossible to feel anything but a numbness, and yet he has such an attatchment to me :( He would do anything for me, but he feels that he must let me go because he's bringing me down with him :( I need to make him see, and I'm trying so hard, that hes the one who is the victim of this circumstance, I'm here because I want to be there for him, and that hes worth it every second of the way. He said without me I could be happy, I could have somebody that I deserve who gives me everything I deserve without the pain, but the only way he could let go was so completely cut me out of his life, which would leave him feeling empty and like he'd lost the best thing and true love of his life, for no reason when I want to be there so much :( I just can't get through to him that I WANT to be there, that it breaks my heart to see him like this and leaving him to it is the last thing I could ever do.

    I acted in the past like 'If you can't decide whether you want me, then I dont want to be here anymore' and that almost always triggered him to realize what hes throwing away and then we'd be okay again. I'd tell him all sorts of untrue things when he'd go compltely cold to me, that he wasnt what i needed, that he didnt love me in the ways i need, that he cant dedicate himself to me, and I realize now that's the LAST thing he wanted to hear, he needed to hear. He's just lost, confused, but always known deep inside that he has me, but he cant accept that because he see's me as so unique, perfect, strong, and he doesnt want to bring the best person hes met in his life down with him :(

    Sitting in the car last night just before I left and we both just cried and talked to much, and then he said 'It's all my fault, and we both know it :( I deserve to be alone and not to bring you down with me'' to which I replied ''It isn't your fault Simon, I love you, I'm here because of that'' He said ''Then who's fault is it?'' and I said ''Don't make me answer that, its out of our control'' and he just burst out crying hugging me really tight apolgozing fior how things were :(

    His mind is a battlefield, and although it hurts me so much, I refuse to let him go :(

    ''A philosophy that emphasizes the uniqueness and isolation of the individual experience in a hostile or indifferent universe, regards human existence as unexplainable, and stresses freedom of choice and responsibility for the consequences of one's acts.''
  11. Craig1994

    Craig1994 Member

    Lots has happened over the past weeks. He stayed Friday/Saturday and things went very well, just as soon as he left we both were filled with dread and depression almost instantly :( He suggested we split up and just become our own seperate people for a while.

    Here I am, the one who was there for him, struggling so much through everything, being lead by only my own decisions with nobody telling me that I'm doing the right thing, almost everybody telling me quite the opposite. I've just removed him from FB, seeing him go about his everyday life almost without a care :( How am i supposed to deal with that when I thought that I was all he cared for :( I don't know which I prefer to believe now, that he never loved me, or that hes fallen out of love with me somewhere on this journey :(

    I'll carry on struggling along, knowing I did my best for him because he is truly all that I care about, I know until the day that I die, he was the one for me. Somebody is always going to get hurt in a story like this, I'd rather it were me than him. :(

    I just wish I felt as though we could go on, or give it another shot :( He seems happier now anyway, that's all I care about. Just have to find myself without him again now. I guess theres an empty slot I have to fill somehow :(

    Wanting him is hard to forget, loving him is hard to regret, losing him is hard to accept, but even with all the hurt I've felt, letting go is the most painful yet.
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