Peter Pan

[Older but not wiser]

OK

Where to start.

Let get the details out of the way.

I'm soon to be 40, and I'm gay, always have been always will be.

The problem is I have never really come to terms with it, so I've spent the last 27 years, with that side of myself tucked away in little box in the darkest corner of my soul, the trouble is after all those years, the box is getting bigger and bigger and soon there will be nothing left in there but that big black dark empty box, where my soul should be.

I've kind of had the video of my life on pause for so long, I'm not sure I will ever be able to get it going again.

I never marrried, I've had very few sexual encounters, other than the odd teenage fumblings with boys and girls, and a couple of goes at straight sex just to get that out of the way really, then nothing................. for almost 20 years.

I've spent my time hiding from life in my work, but now as I get older If find it harder to fool myself that I'm happy and content with what I have, a pritty empty life with no one in it apart from close family.

So what to do thats the question, is 40 too old to come out of the closet, is being gay something that can only be done if youre less than 30, Is there any real chance a mans man like me, could every really be happy in that sort of relationship and at 40 is there any chance I could still find a cute young guy will to give it go, with a middle aged, tubby old fart like me.

May be 27 years was a bit too long to spend thinking about this !

The trouble is now there is a big black box full of lonelyness, sadness, fear, heart ache, distrust and misery where my soul should be.

Its like this whole other person I became to hide the fact I'm gay has taken over my life and I have no idea how to get it back !

But I do know this is a heavy burden to carry, living as a passenger as some one else lives your life, you can only shed so many tears after all.

 

[Terry]

It's never too late, I met the love of my life at 40.
Dunno about the young cute guy bit, what's wrong with just finding someone who makes you smile.
I don't know where in the world you are, but here in the UK there are loads of places to meet gay guys...get out there and see what comes your way.

 

[Older but not wiser]

I do live in the UK, on the Lincs / Notts border, I've done the Gaydar thing, but that just tends to be a meat market, no one ever really clicks on my chat window anyway.

The other problem is I suffer from depression on and off, I do a really good job of hiding it from family and co-workers, but it comes and goes. Most of the time I just cant be bothered, I dont feel like doing anything, I just want to sleep and drink, and drink and sleep.

I have thought about going to see the doctor for some happy pills, but that kinds makes me an official loser, according to the way I was brought up.

Its a strange way to bring your children up, when suicide is a more "manly" thing to do, than deal with issues like, being gay or dealing with depression.

I used to think depression was somethings slackers used as an excuse not to come into work, whimpy men than had no guts or wives kept there balls at home in a jar.

A work mate once said "if something bothers me I just dont think about", the trouble is lately, this is all I can think about, for ever is a long time to be alone.

 

[Terry]

Get thee to the docs and get some help here. I'm on anti depressants at the mo because I need them. Have gone thru most of my life not needing them, or just not accepting that I did. If you had a headache you'd take an aspirin, same thing. If you're depressed they can help you to function better.

 

[Older but not wiser]

I can see how a bottle of pills might help in the short term.

But like most folks on here isn't it the underlying issue thats the real problem, and my inabity to tackle it, like every one else thats posted on the suicide forum after all.

I read on the net that feeling suicidal is simply a matter of no being able to cope with stuff that life put you through, so for the longest time I have tried not to feel anything, so I had nothing to cope with, everything just passed me by, including my life.

The weirdest thing, is way back when, when I had a circle of friends, they told me this was the state I would end up in, before I started to let this other me take over my life, at the time I was sure I was right and they were wrong, its strangely ironic now.

I think I know what I have to do, but, I'm too tired and afraid to do it, at my age I wonder if coming out will sinly shatter this boring but very comfortable life I have, outwardly I'm happy go lucky kinda bloke, get on well with co-workers, that sort of thing.

I guess my biggest fear, it that I'll stop being me, instead of people saying "hey here comes Paul he's an alright bloke", they'll say "here comes that gay bloke, I think his names Paul or something, I dont really know him, or want to."

Suppose being a supervisor in a large male only factory environment wasn't the best choice of job either, just my luck !!!

 

[older but not wiser]

There is more back ground stuff in the "Will I always be alone" thread, if any can be bothered to look or are really really bored.

 

[Terry]

paul, don't come out at work just to be on the safe side. some people can be bastards about it even in this day and age.

If you need a friend thru all this and you don't mind a middle aged heterosexual female, email me anytime, my email is:

[email protected]

 

[Ziggy]

You live in Nottingham? Well last year you could have gone to the Nottingham Pride festival at the Arboretum. Nice hot sunny day in July and you can choose whether you want to be come across as being gay or not as lots of straight people go along with their gay mates. You get a wide mix of people... even the mayor was there, though I'm not sure whether he hung around after he opened the festival. Anyway same thing's happening next July, lots of bands, beer, lovely weather... tempting eh?

I find that the problem with solitude is that although you can feel sad and miserable, you also feel safe and secure. I spend my whole life wanting to meet someone and then when I do it scares me and I just run away from the relationship. I find it's a lot easier to be on my own. I just tell myself over and over that I'm happy, why risk change? being alone is so less stressful than being in a relationship, after all the people I know in relationships just fight and argue all the time. And surely I can be just as happy reading and playing computer games, and I think the reason I'm alone is because of fate and the experiences I've had in the past etc.

I've been thinking this sort of stuff for over 20 years now, but I've come to realise that if I want things to change then I need to take a good look at my life, find the truth amongst the bullshit, and accept that nothing's gonna change unless I change it... That's a really scary prospect, and to be honest I think I'm just gonna have to admit nothing's gonna change for me 'cos I ain't got what it takes to even follow my own advice. Oh well...

Anyway July 2007, Party!!! Don't forget it.

 

[Older but not wiser]

You have hit the nail on the head.

Thats a problem for me too, spending so long hiding the real me has taken its toll, I'm not sure what I really feel sometimes, and like you surfing the net and playing counter strike is far less of a hassle than getting out there and doing something about my troubles.

I have had the odd cloak and dagger meeting, via Gaydar, but;

1 I was terrified most of the time.
2 People are not what they say they are on the internet half the time
3 The one younger guy I have met, was a horrible person on the inside
4 It all seems so forced and unatural

Guess I'm an old fashioned romantic fool at heart.

How did this guy put it "You're a straight guy trapped in a gay mans body", I thought that was a compliment, but apparently its not !

But some how it just doesnt seem fair, I get angry with myself sometimes, its like I have cheated my self, out of living my own life.

As for making freinds I try not to let anyone get too close, its really hard to have real friends, when through my own doing, these people dont really know who I am, how can someone really even be your friend when they dont really know you at all.

Thats the trouble with depression, in a way it can become very comforting and safe, everything is predictable, your never dissapointed, because you have no expectations, you never wonder why you sad because your always sad, you never talk things over because you distance your self from all the people you would normaly talk things through with.

A bit like a dog chasing its tail all I seem to do is go round and round and round, if this was a roundabout, I wish it would stop, I want to get off.

 

[Older but not wiser]

paul, don't come out at work just to be on the safe side. some people can be bastards about it even in this day and age.

If you need a friend thru all this and you don't mind a middle aged heterosexual female, email me anytime, my email is:

[email protected]

Thanks for the offer, it very generous of you, I have told a young girl I'm gay, she was looking for a relationship with me (shes 22) and was really upset when I turned her down, I was reallly flattered, but she took it badly so I was kind of forced into telling her why.

The trouble was even after telling something like that, so thing so very private, Im a very private person, I still didn't really connect with her on an emontional level or on a personal level

According to a book I've read its because my mum lied to me on the my first day at school, she promised not to leave me and if I did not like it she would take me home, then prompty handed me over to the teacher and cleared off, leaving me crying with my nose pressed against the glass, at least that what the book said it was, the cause of my trust issues with women.

But hay what can books really tell you about yourself.

If it all gets too scary I'll drop you a line.

 

[Ziggy]

It's so strange to hear you say "how can someone really even be your friend when they dont really know you at all." That's just how I feel... I've always asked "if you can't understand yourself how can someone else understand you?" Finally! I think someone might understand, or rather someone might understand that they can't understand. Hmm... Is that good or not?

Seriously though, I don't really talk to people offline about issues that bother me so it's been good to be able to read stuff on this site that I can relate to and has given me much to think about.

 

[Terry]

Feel free to anytime Paul and I promise not to leave you at school :smile:

 

[Older but not wiser]

It's so strange to hear you say "how can someone really even be your friend when they dont really know you at all." That's just how I feel... I've always asked "if you can't understand yourself how can someone else understand you?" Finally! I think someone might understand, or rather someone might understand that they can't understand. Hmm... Is that good or not?

Seriously though, I don't really talk to people offline about issues that bother me so it's been good to be able to read stuff on this site that I can relate to and has given me much to think about.

I know exactly what you trying to say, I think !!!

I've spent so long being someone else, this other persona, that I invented to hide behind, its now almost impossible to tell where he ends and I begin, sounds a bit silly but its true.

I was brought up to be a manly man, never cry and if you must, never in public, never ask for help, never admit you have problems, if you do never talk about them, with any one, never share whats inside of you with anyone, always be on your guard, never trust anyone that isn't directly related to you.

My dads favorite saying "Stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about", usualy followed by a a large red hand print tatooed into a part of your body.

When youre a child, its groving up that lets you discover who you really are, I guess with the set of rule I was given, I never really found out who I was, so I never moved on and never really grew up.

Is there any wonder a lot of us are cofused or lost in own personalities as adults.

I have freinds or rather the persona that I invented, this brave face, this shield I invented, to keep the real me safe and sound, he has freinds, but they are not "my" freinds, how can they be, when Im so different to this person that they know as "Paul"

 

[Ziggy]

Hi again, just a question about a couple of the quotes you've made, as they kind of worry me...

"If I could recommend a book, it called "im ok, your ok" by somebodyharris I think, its a kind of self help"

"According to a book I've read its because my mum lied to me on the my first day at school"

Ok I've read "I'm ok, your ok" and I'd like to ask you this... Have the authors of these books ever met you, spoken to you, do they understand you or know how you feel? Can they actually help you?

Let's suppose for arguments sake that only you know you, that you have to find your own answers and no one can find these answers for you. Where do you go from there?

From a personal point of view I read Psychology and Philosophy and Science and Religion and I'm searching for answers and meaning and I'll probably be searching for the rest of my life, but if I do find answers then they'll be my answers and only answers that apply to me. I don't believe in quick and easy answers... If your friends don't know who you are then why is "somebodyharris" such an expert? I believe there are 2 types of 'self help' books, those that are written to try and cash in and make some money, and those that help simply because what they say is true. For example Einstein said "The important thing is not to stop questioning", he wasn't trying to help anyone he was simply stating a fact that was true.

Here's another quote for you: "one has to accept meaninglessness as an achievement, as an accomplishment that permits a transformed relation to everyday life"... To be honest even I'm not too clear what that means, but for me it says that once I stop believing what society, friends, family etc. tell me then what I start believing is something that has come uniquely from me. For example, once I reject the belief that I should get married and settle down and have kids then I find my own beliefs which will lead me to a more fulfilled life.

I know this is straying from the point, (is there a point?) anyway to me knowing who I really am is one of the most essential things in my life, to prevent people from being close to me I've often had to drive them away, and people may think I'm cold and hateful and uncaring etc. etc. and maybe it has to be that way, but only I know who I am and I know that I do care and that sense of understanding doesn't come from self help books but from trying to make sense of my own experiences... which are pretty screwed up I have to admit, anyway I'm sorry for going on but I've nearly finished (feel free to stop reading!)

Anyway let's imagine there's no-one else in the world but you, there's no family, no friends, no-one you fancy and no-one who fancies you, no work collegues or no-one else on this forum. Would you know who you were in this situation? Would you be able to love yourself in this situation? If the answer to either of these is no then you've probably been reading the wrong books. Am I making sense? (You can say no, even I don't know what I'm going on about half the time, actually I think I am just rambling now, time to stop methinks.)

 

[Ziggy]

They don't give you much time to delete your posts on this site do they? Forget my last post, if I've got any advice for you it would be "don't listen to people who've fucked their lives up and talk bollocks just so they can pretend that everything's ok."

 

[Older but not wiser]

No worries

I kind of read that book by accident, years ago I was sent on a "management" course, and the first half of the book about transactional analysis was recommended reading before attending.

just as a side note, I was thinking snooze fest, but it was a really good course.

It was only later I read the second half, which is more based around "self help", much of the second half was a bit touchy feely for my liking.

But one section that stood out "Track Back" I think it was called, it talked about exploring any negative or unpleasant or reoccuring emotions you have now and tracking them back through your life, to the first time you felt like that, working on the principle that some issues in adult hood are left over problems from earlier in life. At the time I think I was looking for a way to prove to myself I wasn't gay, so I was looking for a good excuse for not being able to connect with women on a physical or emontional level, and this where mum leaving me on my first day of school came from, despite me being very synical and sceptical about that sort of thing, the realization that I had trust issues with women from an incident when I was 5 or 6 came to me like a bolt out of the blue while I was in the shower one day and no one was more surprised than me when all the pieces just seemed to fall into place, it really was a reveralation.

But at the time is was also just the news I wanted hear, so may be its best taken with a pinch of salt.

Don't worry about talking bollock, I do it all the time, we all do and lets face it if, if you're going to talk rubbish, the internet is the place to do it, no insult intended.

If every thing was ok, this site would not be here and that would be a travesty, because even "Ok" people have things that they can't fix for themselves.

Even well educated, well paid, confident, outgoing, successful, middle aged, over weight, wound too tightly, closeted homosexual, control freaks........ like me.

Do I really just need to grow up, tell who ever needs to know, "I like C**k" and get on with the rest of my life, that's the question, or will that bring the walls that I have built up around me crashing down and leave me standing cold and exposed in the middle of the empty field that is my life, with all and sundry gay or straight, looking on, laughing at my inadequacy and mocking me for daring to think that a person like me could be loved.

Which if you have read any of my other posts, bring me back to the fact that deep down inside, i'm still this frightened little 13 year old gay boy, terrified of what that means and what the future holds for him.

So what did I do, I never grew up, never moved past that point, never really had a future.

So here I am now almost 27 years later, still frozen in time.

Answers are easy, we all know them (even if we don't like to admit it), its knowing what questions to ask that's the hard part !

 

[Older but not wiser]

Couldn't think of any quotes so made some up.

Hehehehe

The world is just one tiny planet in the universe of my mind

Having wisdom doesn't mean you are wise.

Having knowledge doesn't mean you know.

Just living doesn't mean you have a life.

Suicide is the ultimate answer, but not to my question.



Think thats enough pontification and red wines for one night !!!!!!

Sorry guys ... and gals

 

[Ziggy]

"issues in adult hood are left over problems from earlier in life"... ah it makes sense now, maybe the problems I have getting close to people are due to the fact that the people I've loved in the past have jumped off bridges, set fire to themselves, been possessed by demons, slept with my mates, abandoned me or were locked away in mental hospitals. *8^)

(I'm old, I like the good old fashioned smileys - none of these new fancy computer graphics for me!)

Anyway I sometimes think I've had a hard life but my brother, wow, he's in a different league altogether. He tried to run away from home when he was 6, all he wanted to take with him was his teddy bear and the street light outside the house. He tried to dig it up with a spoon but when the spoon bent he came back home crying! (Bless him!)

He's quite cool, he's also gay and has spent years trying to hide it, when he came out his life became hell so he moved away to London and started again. His life has been pretty shit but he's always shown great courage and eventually found happiness in his mid 40s. I wish I could follow his example.

My problem is I don't face up to life. When I was 12 I got my first computer and I thought I can just play on my computer and ignore all the shite around me 'cos it will pass. And it did, ok it took around 15 years or so but I got to the point where I thought hey I did good, I got through it all and can be proud of my life. And it's exactly as you say, I meet a lass at the club she wants to have sex and I'm thinking I've never dated a woman or kissed a woman, I hugged one once and then started crying, and then suddenly I'm not me anymore I'm just a very confused small boy again with a very grown up woman and so basically I run away. Pathetic.

I know what people are going to say... if you didn't meet drunken lasses at clubs but slowly and surely got to know a nice lass she'd understand you and not laugh at you and... oh sorry you were just going to say I was pathetic. Fair enough. Anyway, I know I'm not being much help here... anyone else reading this thread is free to contribute!

Oops... nearly forgot my quote:
"People are not disturbed by things, but by the views which they take of things"
Hmm, bit boring... maybe all 'self help' quotes should come from the TV Series "Kung Fu"?
"I can only point the way, Grasshopper. You must walk the path yourself"

 

[Older but not wiser]

I've spent my entire life running away

Running away from myself

But I'm tired from running now

If I dont take a break some time soon

Then I'm afraid I might not finish the race

For me, admitting this was the first step

The second was to work out what I was running away from

The question is now, will I make it to the finish line

Or should I bow out before I make a fool of myself

----------
This talking in metaphors is getting out of hand

I can do without the bullshit, my life is full of it, as am I at times
----------

I see all my old friends moving on, having kids, getting divorced, its not all good, no ones life never is all good, every one has hard times but for me ever thing changes but stays exactly the same.

Even though I know its not true, I was brought up the believe that all gay men, grow up to be evil homicidal peverts and pedophiles and I think deep deep down a part of me believes that is true and if I give in to that gay side of me, it might become true, ridiculous I know.

But with the advent of internet porn, and my growing need to be loved.

It feels like I'm slowly , slowly , slowly being torn apart

And I worry that some day soon there will be nothing left to love.

(hmmm, you made me cry again, even though no one is really listening)

 

[Ziggy]

I'm sorry but I can't think of any cool quotes or pretty much anything of any help that I can say. All I know is that my brother is gay, and he and his partner are really content and accepted by folks. I was also friends with a guy who was gay and I often went round the pubs and clubs of Nottingham with them, they were content and everyone got on fine with them. I think it's an age thing - when we were kids being gay was a hanging offence, whereas I had a mate who's kids and their friends now consider it 'cool' to be gay.

I don't think your struggle is against your friends, family, society etc. but with yourself. At the end of the day I've accepted that no one's going to love me so basically I have to try to love myself (though I fail miserably), I can understand why there may be many reasons you can't love others or feel that you can't be loved by others but from what I've read you've got no reason not to love yourself.

It saddens me when you say "you made me cry again, even though no one is really listening". I'm obviously doing more harm than good by being here on this site. That would not surprise me, perhaps I should just shut up. Anyway my apologies, but if it means anything I'm really glad to have talked to you on this thread, I can't really see you as the "evil homicidal pevert" type to be honest, just another cool gay guy as most of them seem to be.