Philosphy - The Dilemma of my Existence

Discussion in 'Suicidal Thoughts and Feelings' started by Sir_William, Oct 23, 2008.

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  1. Sir_William

    Sir_William Member

    I found this forum this morning and spent the last few hours reflecting on how I feel, what I am thinking trying to make sense of my emotions…. Trying to intellectualizing my thoughts the only way I know how. I am not asking for help with overcoming my despair, but asking for help in trying to understand it better from a philosophical perspective, and less of an emotional one.

    I live what many people would consider to be charmed life. I have a beautiful wife who loves me, a beautiful daughter, a good career, make excellent money. Materially, I have most of the things a lot of people spend their lives trying to obtain, yet here I am in a quandary of emotional and intellectual strife trying to rationalize my own existence, and develop my own sense of self-identity and ultimately choose the ending of my own fate.

    I’ve heard that self-destruction is not one for the simple heart or of a simple mind. This self-indulged longing is a sign of great inner sensitivity to my emotional strife and intellectual will. Saint-Marc Girardin said that “It is the malady of the refined and of philosophers”.

    I find for myself, that there is an unexpected kind of satisfaction from the experience of self grieving and contemplation from all of this, that the fact remains that pain is not as easily extinguished as pleasure is. Grief becomes an occupation that fills all my waking moments. I plunge myself into the abyss of sadness. An illness, with without a doubt, but an illness whose actual texture is rather seductive more than it is painful, wherein death comes to seem like a surrender into infinity. Taking full control of my own fate, creating the ultimate self-determination and last bow of identity.

    I don’t fit into a category of inflicting violence onto myself or others…. I am not seeking my own destruction aggressively. Im not in that category, as I care not for an audience of any kind nor desire others sympathy of my emotions, only to intellectualize it and understand what it is exactly that I feel. I simply wish them to be non-existent or would gladly surrender them on the condition of living in bliss without conditions. This is not the world we live in, however romantic the notion becomes, or at least if experimented with, is simply not sustainable. But then again, what is sustainable? We have a galactic evolution of transformation of all things living and non living. A fruit fly may live only for a few days, a flower a few weeks and granite formations in the Rocky Mountains will eventually too perish along with our earth and sun, and Milky Way galaxy on its collision course with Andromeda.

    What is this self-identity or my stream of consciousness that I am biologically pre-programmed to preserve…. but that my intellect and emotions from my brain try to override?

    In this sense, I think that suicide is not an act of self-annihilation, but rather the ultimate passive succumbing to grief or despair, and the supreme active assertion of self identity. “I die…. Therefore I am”. There is a beautiful sense of irony about that statement. For me, it’s the ultimate rejection and challenge to the perceived status quo of society’s described value to ourselves. I don’t have a lot to oppose, or social imposition to reject, or malice in my heart directed toward another to inflict guilt, pain, or grief upon another. The reason I am here now is solely to prevent the lifelong grief my actions and decision would inflict upon my 9 year daughter, and 28 yr old wife.

    No one has failed me, no one has abused me and I hold absolutely no one responsible for my thoughts and feelings but myself. I have built a prison, my own prison, brick by brick with methodical precision over time. Philosophically, I too am aware that I alone hold the keys to the prison door, but time has eroded my sense of what freedom feels like. The sweetness of life itself, untainted by selfish society grooming and molding our sense of self into what it deems appropriate for its cause and collective desires.

    I am trying to intellectualize my own thoughts, and simply wish to explore them further. I sporadically visit a therapist, who in the beginning was a career coach to help me determine a path, but last week’s visit brought about a revelation in my being honest with myself. Tears flowed from my eyes as I pulled the truth from my heart and uttered them between my lips. I must face these thoughts using something I’ve never really used before and that it honesty… not to others, but most importantly to myself, but my own honesty hurts me deeply. How can I be married, and have nothing but a loving wife.... surrounded by family who genuinely cares about my well being, yet feel completely lonely a full of despair. How can I live with myself for having the gifts of love, yet do not want to be married and reject it and push away. How can I can have an absolutely beautiful green eyed, spectacularly brilliant daughter, yet do not want to be a father. How can I can have a career and money, yet want nothing to do with it. My life is controlled by fulfilling the dreams of others, yet my dreams have long dissipated to the point I do not even have the hope or will to see them realized. In my death, I rationalize that I fulfill the ultimate sense of self-identity by making a decision that absolutely no one can ever make for me, nor ever take away. Why is my own depression so seductive?

    Can death be a gift… to myself? Many have chosen this path… and many have made the decision with honor. Honor to themselves and in memory of those that survived them. Military generals in times past chose to end their own life, to PRESERVE their honor rather than suffer defeat on the battlefield, and history supports that honor and ultimate self-sacrifice. My identity…. I don’t know what that is.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2008
  2. CAD

    CAD Well-Known Member

    Reading some of that reminded me of French existentialism. It has been my opinion for a long time now that philosophy is the royal road to misery. I'm not quite convinced that the examined life is essentially the worthiest; nor am I a devotee to the nobility of Socratic aporia.

    That's not to say that philosophy is an unworthy activity. The fact that you are you trying to consider your life and pursue the wider questions of existence is very commendable. But maybe you should try some philosophy not quite so pessimistic in flavour. Try some Taoism: Chinese romanticism that gets back to the basics.

    Also, remember Thomas Aquinas. He spent most of his life in speculation, writing between 10-20 million words in various theological and philosophical treatises. But it is said that the happiest years of his life were the last, when he put down his quill-pen and started living life.
  3. Sir_William

    Sir_William Member


    I'm not seeking a way to live life.. but rather as complete understanding of my emotions in a philosophical sense. My questions are not related to how to live.... but rather the determination of dying with dignity.

    In our culture we have gotten really good as preserving life. We can ship our grandparents to nuring homes and assisted living facilities merely to outsource our burdens on others through the souce of monetary wealth that facilitates and feeds it. While technology and modern medicine preserves life, we lose all concepts and meaning of what is really important... the Quality of that Life lived. What is the point of existing rotting away in a hospital bed staring at the ceiling everyday? Kept alive not by hope, dreams, unfulfilled desires, but by machines.... or merely kept alive simply because its more soothing to the family members whose decision it was in the beginning to place them there. What dignity or quality of life is that? I want my dignity, I want my self determination.... I want my quality of life defined only by me. How can my life be placed in the hands of others subjective to their will, defined by their standards, cultures, rules, obligations?

    Philosphy is my own understanding, pessimistic as it may seem, its objective and its something I can try and understand, however unpleasent the result of my convictions.
  4. CAD

    CAD Well-Known Member

    What I said was relevant; I was just trying to avoid the metaphysical knots of materialism vs idealism etc. Instead of worrying about death or becoming a vegetable, why don't you focus on the positive aspects of your life? There is no point in entangling yourself in problems that have no solution. No one is in any position to pontificate about death or indeed life. Buddhism and Taoism would have told you that. I think our energies would be better spent asking how to live a good life in the here and now, rather than fixing our gazes on the heavens or into the unforeseeable future.
  5. plates

    plates Well-Known Member

    There isn't anything dignified about dying. When you die, you'll be giving others full control over how they see you. What you are trying to express will be lost to them. Maybe just before the moment of physical death you'd feel like you finally have some control, (or maybe there is comfort in planning your death) but that is transient. I noticed I go through cycles of death- life-death-dying-life, if that makes sense?

    Have you tried bombing your prison? I throw grenades at mine every time I feel those bricks piling up around me. I realised last year, what those bricks are made of- how much they had been built by others, how much my prison was a cell made of violent conflict between myself and others, rather than saying "I have the key, this is my fault, this prison was built by myself."

    I realised when looking at those bricks, that each one had more of "me" in them than "others", so when it all finally crumbled down- it wasn't such hard work.

    I don't know much about Philosophy with a capital P but I wanted to reply to you.

    There are ways of getting control over your life other than killing yourself physically. You can explore them with your therapist.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 23, 2008
  6. Sir_William

    Sir_William Member

    I know and understand where your coming from, but I must apologize because I may have been unclear in my dialog.

    I dont ponder idealism, materialism, or worry about becoming a vegetable. The fact of the matter is, I dont fear death at all anymore. I am embracing death... welcoming it.... hoping for it.

    I realize that some questions or issues I have, may in fact have no answers at all, but I feel I need to seek my own understanding of them. As I mentioned before, the only reason I am drawing a breath in now is because of the grief I would inflict upon others. They wouldnt understand.... they would never understand. Thus my goal is to discuss my emotions and reasoning in some feeble hope that I articulate my reasons from another vantage point outside of our social demonization of suicide, so that one day my family would have answers directly from me to the often unanswered question left behind by far too many ... "Why?"
  7. Stranger1

    Stranger1 Forum Buddy & Antiquities Friend

    I am not sure what you are looking for. Would you please try and speak so us layman can understand what is going on. I am just being honest I don't know what all you are saying. I got bits and peices of it but am left wondering???~Joseph~
  8. Sir_William

    Sir_William Member

    Really, I joined this forum seeking to discuss issues and thoughts with someone who thinks like me, similiar to thought process to spark a conversation and develop more thoughts on the subject.

    I dont expect everyone to have the insight, but I've got no one to talk with. Therapy seems to skim the surface and sweep it under the rug and pretend evrythings ok, I dont trust friends with my thoughts on this subject, and spouse wouldnt have a clue and would only think something is wrong with her, or that I dont love her, or fear that she is not loving me enough and begin to crowd me.

    Im not the type of person who reaches out in theatrical display of attempted suicide pre-programmed from the beginning to secretly fail by design. I have no issue with the thought of suicide, but do in my current existence wish to understand my depression and desire for death to a greater degree so that I can greater explain the reasons "why" and full state of mind when I do eventually leave another wake of emotional tradegy behind me for the few who do care....

    The last thing I want is for my wife & daughter to go through their entire lives wondering what it was I was thinking... could they have done something.... they saw the signs, but didnt act.... are they to blame..... am I sick and they should have helped.... what was he thinking? I want them to know what I was thinking, and that my actions were well concieved, and that I made a personal, rational life choice for myself and I had some justification for it, rather than a rash frenzied action of despair resulting in suicide. Perhaps I am being too academic about it.... but what can I say, Im peculiar.
  9. Stranger1

    Stranger1 Forum Buddy & Antiquities Friend

    Thank you,
    That I understood. You sound as if your therapist isn't helping. Have you considered finding a new one? It took me three before I found one who cared about you and could drag those negative thoughts out so you could dicuss them and eventually trash them. Since I found Gina I have tried to pass on that therapy helps.
    It's hard to keep family from knowing. They pick up on small things like a mood change or some remark you made,etc. Have you considered having your wife attending some of your sessions?
    I just recently started letting my daughter attend some of mine. She doesn't understand why I am the way I am. Gina is good about not telling her really personal things. It just gives me that xtra support Or I should say it will eventually give me the xtra support once she starts to understand the way I think. I wish you good luck and please keep posting so we know you are making progress. Take Care!~Joseph~
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