Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by Xaos, Mar 18, 2010.
Old news, but fucking awesome :laugh:
Hahaha, I love it.
omg i hate statistics! I bet they'll use those statistics for Temperature change and then again for a new politician coming in and again because every 53 years yadda yadda... Grr generalized events of 100's of unique situations. Who falls for that bullshit and why do they keep using it?
I donno about pink. lol it's funny,.. though I don't know. I want to say I dont want to be part of a society that treats people like that, but I know how much worse off it is in prison than just worrying about the colour of your clothes. It'd be funny in a movie, ... I dont like the tone it sets for inmates. And yes, i am including the most horrible of people in my opinion when I say that.
Cool post though
Well, that statistic may be actually informative. This actually worsens the punishment, in such a way that may be unconstitutional - this could be considered humiliation, but it's probably too whimsical to get anywhere in a challenge.
mark twain said there are 3 kinds of lies
Fuck em, do the crime, do the time, I'd add some glitter to the walls for extra effect and change their normal shower nossils into penis shaped ones. :laugh:
There are statistics which say "25% of the public think jack ate jills pie". Those opinion poll sorts are complete bollocks, but prison figures are records, thats totally different, they are real, not lies.
Statistics are so generalized its unbelievable. Lets say that youre looking at one prisoners statistics for violent outburts in a prison over a year, and theres an increase over the last 4 months. That can be inturpretted in many ways and used as the main argument for many topics, but the most important thing is the events that lead to these outbursts. Prison guards are corrupt. They conjour shit up and can make a prisoners life hell and force them into outbursts for example, thus adding to this statistic. The prisoners girlfriend could have left him 4 months ago or a family member died, or hes become addicted to a drug in prison and lost his contacts, or hes causing the outburst to be sent to solitary to avoid certain gang members.
There are a load of factors that go into each person, yet all we do is take the "generalized" fact that they havn't repeat offended over the past 2 years, and find everyone else who has a similar dilluded solitary fact, and you that lame statistic. Does it include a report on each person in that statistic and the facts that went into their lives to determine why they havn't repeat offended? Hell no.
Prison facts might be "true". But how can you take them at face value? There's so much that goes into each person that a statistic is more than likely going to cause more trouble than its worth if it is used in an important argument that causes change.
Not sure what thats got to do with them not repeat offending.
Isn't that generalised fact that they haven't repeated offended all that matters? Sure, it may not be the exact reason why the stats have lowered, but there's no way of telling, unless the ex-offenders say so, but even then you've got to take their word for it, there's no harm done in it either way.
I put this up mostly for a laugh anyway.
Its was to make a point that statistics are biased.
And no the generalized fact is nice for us to hear, but in no way is it of any use for any organization to build from. I found it funny, until I thought about it. But ill leave it alone.
Anyhow, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtofbxmlv8Y&NR=1 was one of the recommended videos. That's freaken funny, the ending is priceless.
Not sure if you saw that I added a bit to my last post before you posted.
"Sure, it may not be the exact reason why the stats have lowered, but there's no way of telling, unless the ex-offenders say so, but even then you've got to take their word for it, there's no harm done in it either way."
Are you one of those human-rights-for-criminals "do gooders"? (for want of a better term)
That's rich mate.
these those.. same thing. Arguing my point I think might be wasted on you since you've already put me into a box. Lets leave it at that eh?
I've pretty much agreed with your point!?
Its just thats the impression I've been given, everybody judges people, and I haven't put you in a box, its only based upon what I've seen, opinions can change.
If that's the case then my bad for my snarky post.
If you're actually curious, I believe that people make mistakes(on little to massive scales). We as a society judge and convict them,(though personally you or I dont, its the tools that society uses that we stand with). These people are in a prison to be punished and to attempt some form of rehabilitation(though, youre usually worse off once youre in). I personally have certain principles, and stooping to the level of someone who abuses and takes advantage of another person is something I do my best not to do. And a criminal in a prison is.. easy prey to being abused by those who are in power. I just believe that they are still human beings, and should be treated as such.
I know though that, what goes on, especially in womens prisons, goes against everything I believe and prisoners of both sexes get shit on, ontop of the justified shit that they've brought upon themselves. Yadda yadda. It's a whole different society in there, we have to be better than the shit thats in there.
Yeah, people make mistakes and there is potential for abuse, but pink prisons are just fucking funny. Manslaughter is obviously different to murder, you could manslaughter someone in self defence, and thats a lot different to premeditated murder.
If power is abused it should be sorted out, but prisons should not be playcamps, Tv's, pool tables, table tennis & gyms, make it a fucking joke. Sure they are human beings, but they shouldn't be put on par with people who havent commited a crime, luxuries are for the good, and they can get all the good stuff when they're out and rehabiltated.
That's true they do have luxeries, I don't know exactly where I stand with this, because of the mental endurance one has to go through in prison. It might be a negative to remove this entirely, but this section im not sure. I think there's an abuse of certain privilages but entirely I think it's really needed.
The thing about prison guard abuses is that, usually it gets hushed up. Theres a case against a certain amount of guards/warden that's being silenced and evidence is mysteriously disappearing, like video tapes. Alot of sexual abuse has taken place by these guards in a certain womens prison, even one girl is pregnant, but.. Yeah. Im with you on that it should be dealt with, but its usually never heard, and if its voiced it falls on deaf ears or goes away by one way or another.
With luxeries, I suppose knowing the day to night to day life of a prisoner is what people need to know or learn about. I know that without certain luxeries, all youre left with is your mind, your cell and the culture of prison. Eventually if you don't have escapes you'll go mad and become a part of that culture. So I don't believe blanketing luxeries is a good idea, I know 100% removeal of all freedoms only creates viciousness in people who will retaliate.
Even a prisoner needs sometime for mental escape from the reality they are in. But im not sure of all the luxeries they are allowed to have. It's different in every prison, which is unfortunate. Every prison has a different set of rules and standards which can be extremely difficult when transfering a prisoner from one prison to the next.
There just seems to be a lot of grey area with what prison is. Is it a punishment area? Or punishment with the potential for rehabilitation? It seems to be a mess, with the punishments on some people being sevre. 10 years for smuggeling drugs, less than that for murder in some cases. Its a problem in the UK, they're overflowing with convicted people. Loads of drug addicts that have to go cold turkey when they are thrown into prison.(Don't think I disagree with that though). Yet they continue to have a flow of drugs into the prisons, and prison guards are usually the prime suspects. yet again though, cant prove it. It's unfortunate because.. these people who guard and secure these prisons should be at a high standard and live that high standard. Some don't though.
edit btw the gyms are really needed. Especially for steroid users. Granted it makes people stronger and more dangerous, on the flip side though, if the gyms werent there, there is no physical release for a male or female(but mainly the males). without this release, it will come in another form, and that form will probably be highly aggressive and violent.
Btw the food they feed prisoners is shit. We're talking like greasy fried shit. That bad health diet doesn't help with mental recovery in my opinon. A slop of veg and protien would be better than fried food.
Yeah, I've thought about the "no luxuries" potential to drive people a bit loopy, but thats what support workers are there for, to keep their head above water, and discuss what they would like to do with their future, making plans for when they get out. Giving them what they want because they'll be mad if you don't ain't on, thats what kids do. Mercy is one thing, like allowing them to watch a movie every now and then, but outright generousity makes it absurd.
They are (or at least should be) working throughout the day, and thats plenty exercise to stop them from becoming physically weak from lack of exercise, the gym is a luxury and unnessesary, if they're taking steroids they shouldn't be. People should take the consequences of their actions.
I've never really looked much into abuse in the prison system, I've seen nut job police officers (mostly from the US) abusing their power on TV shows, but thats a different issue altogether and something for the courts to sort out, it shouldn't deter the prison system from doing its duty.
Not suggesting prison is easy, I wouldn't want to be there, but for some it obviously isn't a good enough deterent, and I think the reason is obvious.
It winds me up that they get all this stuff, for what? Raping someone, murdering someone, robbing someone, battering someone to a pulp without cause? Where's the logic in all this? Its a sick joke.
I know, i'm ranting. hwell:
Rule of law lol. Humiliation as punishment is illegal in the US.