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Please help me help my mom

Discussion in 'Help Me! I Need to Talk to Someone.' started by littlealyssa, Mar 8, 2012.

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  1. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    My post could be very long... but i will try to make it as short as possible. Please read and if you can help at all i will be greatful...

    My mom has had a long history of suicides, but they turned from infrequent to frequent and from attention seeking into real unwanting to live.

    When I was 16, my mom took her first turn for the worse. During this time she became severely suicidal and began using self harm as a way to cope. I was scared all the time, I would get sick, I would worry until I shook uncontrolably, ect. It was a horrible time, where I never knew if I would see my mom again, no matter if i was leaving her room or leaving the house. I became a sort of homebody. I slept in her room with her, I listened while she was in the bathroom, I wouldnt leave her. These were the first times I had first hand experience dealing with her suicide attempts, not just being told about it.

    When we left the state we lived in, things began to get better. But only as much as the could. My mom has severe reccurent depressive disorder and also has an undiagnosed illness that keeps her mostly at home and in bed, which causes her to be even more depressed. And she has been to tons and tons of doctors, and had extensive periods at the mayo clinic where no one seems to be able to find the answers she needs to get better physically. My mom used to be the most active person I know, and she misses that.

    Well, I am 20 now. And around 18-19 I started wanting to be able to do my own thing and work and go out with friends. This did not go over well and we were always mad at each other. I feel like I am trying to grow and mature and build a life for myself and she doesnt understand it.

    About 6 months ago, my mom decided to move to a new state to be near a great medical facility to try and get answers. I was planning to go with her, and leave the person I am in love with to do it. Well, after a big misunderstanding, my mom slashed all four of his tires on her way out of town. So I decided to stay with him.

    My mom didnt like being away from me, and I felt like I didnt know who she was so we didnt talk for awhile and my mom had more attempts while she lived away from me. It's not that I don't care, I've just had to seperate myself from the situation because it is so scary and feels so out of my control.

    I'm pregnant now, and my mom just moved back to the town I live in. This is NOT going well. She is very hurt and upset and feels like I am not the person she raised and wants her back and the relationship we had. I am trying to be here for her and nothing is working anymore. On her first day back in town she attempted suicide again. This was a couple of days ago. She was very close and they kept her in the ICU. She said that she didn't even have any regrets when it was happening. She literally has NO DESIRE, WHATSOEVER, to be alive at all. And I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I went to the hospital, and that didnt mean anything to her - she said i looked like i didnt want to be there. I am staying with her at her place and she keeps asking me why i'm here and saying i should go stay with my dad, whom she knows annoys me as ive told her multiple times i avoid and ignore him and she keeps saying we have some great relationship and i should go be with him and how she fought for custody and to keep me away from him was all a waste and how she wishes she had just never cared at all or tried to be a good mom. I tell her she was, she doesnt believe me, i tell her i care, she doesnt believe me, she doesnt believe anything I say at all.

    Now, it's getting to the point where i can't even live my life or be myself. I can't get upset or show emotion. I can't go to my dads house, or she will kill herself. I can't sleep over at my dads house to be with my boyfriend when he is in town 4 nights a week or she will kill herself because she is convinced my dad and boyfriend have a great relationship and since she is a better person than my dad she doesnt feel that is right. So essentially, I cant see the person im in love with or the father of the child in my stomach as i am 6 months pregnant (because they dont get along and he wont be around her) or she will kill herself. We have been planning to move in together for months about 45 minutes away in july or august and she has known this, but now if i do she will kill herself because she is convinced she will never see me. She is mad because i am working while i am pregnant. And i am a junior in college and she was offended i went to class because "if i cared i wouldnt have gone".

    I'm not trying to sound bitter, I need to help her. But after all this time and today i am starting to believe there is nothing i can do. She has doctors, she has medications, she has seen theripists, she has gone and stayed at treatment centers, nothing helps and nothing works and my family is all starting to realize this.

    Today, she told me "goodbye, do whatever you want, you will anyways, its been a nice 20 years" and when i tried to reason with her and tell her how things really are she got REALLY upset and started screaming at me and honestly it scared the sh*t out of me.. and made me so angry and was so hurtful that i almost left.. because when you continually tell someone how something is and they believe nothing you say, it is very hurtful. She wants a relationship but its almost like she is trying to destroy every possibility of that at the same time... and i have no clue what to do anymore. She was VERY mean today and really scared me. And I don't even know if i want to be here anymore.. or how she can expect me to give up my ENTIRE life and anything i want and constantly threaten me with her life, saying "someday i'll be dead and you will feel guilty for the rest of your life" and things like this... what i really want is her to just be happy and for us to be able to have a normal relationship where i can still be my own person and have a life. but she doesnt seem to understand this concept and takes everything as being something against her..

    which makes me just want to be with my boyfriend now and escape all of this.. but i cant, because then i wont have a mom.
  2. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Oh God! this triggered a memory of me climbing out the window (my mother was on the ledge) and saying "if you jump, I jump" it was the only way I could get her back in.
    My entire life has been blighted by my mother's breakdowns, so I really know where your at and how you feel.
    Nothing is ever good enough and you know what, at some point you have to do what's right for you and not her.

    Now having given this sage advice, let me tell you it is so damned hard, I've never been able to completely extricate myself from my mother and her; what amounts to emotional blackmail.
    And that's what this is tbh, "give me what I want or else!"
    Well you can't give her what she wants, because if you do it will end up destroying you.
    What she wants is unreasonable, you are not your mother's guardian!

    I know the fear she's engendering in you, my mum's doing it to me at the moment.
    Not with suicide attempts but constant health scares, tales of her drinking (something she has never done) etc.
    I don't have the answer, but I do know at some point you have to start looking after you and believe me, when that baby arrives he/she will be the single most important thing in your life.
    If you have any family members who would be willing to pitch in and help, get them on board immediately.
    And if you can, tell your mum you love her, you always will, but you need your own life too.
  3. total eclipse

    total eclipse SF Friend Staff Alumni

    You cannot be your mothers keeper hun i have played that role with too many of my family members and now i am sick too far gone to help any of them YOU need to keep YOU well okay strong for your family now your baby to come. When your mother blackmails you like this it is only herself she is thinking of not you hun The only people who can help her are professionals so when she threatens suicide you call the crisis line and let them deal with her okay.
    Boundaries have to be set and kept and you need to keep a distance so you do not be dragged under with her I am sorry you have suffered so much emotional abuse hun please do not let it continue okay Let your mom go get professional help and you look only after YOU now hugs
  4. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Terry- Thanks for responding. I am made to feel so guilty for wanting my own things out of life too, and hearing that reassurance made me feel a lot better. I don't know if it will be possible for my mom to understand this, but it's certainly nice to hear it and feel a little hopeful. What makes it hard is knowing that she is alone when I am not at the house, as my stepdad is off for the military. But he retires in 11 months, and I think that he may be able to help calm the situation more. He will also be back tonight for a visit, and i am hoping somehow we will find a way to reason with her - because seeing her unhappy, wanting to help but being unable, and feeling forced to stay away from my boyfriend is not working - i already have trouble dealing with all of this and missing him isn't helping! Thanks again and I hope things get better for you too.
  5. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    No one knows better than I what the guilt is like, but having lived it for years I know I ACTUALLY KNOW that nothing you do will ever satisfy her, so do your best and no one can ask more....and try to shrug off the guilt cos thats what feeds her.
    Glad someone is coming into the fray to ease the situation :smile:
    Give that man of yours a big hug, cos not many partners will put up with always playing second fiddle and then concentrate on that baby.
    My son, who is a right royal pain in the arse, has been the joy of my life ( I must be a masochist :laugh:) and that baby will bring you so much happiness. :biggrin:

    if you ever need an ear my pm box is always open
  6. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Thank you! It's hard not to feel guilty.. I feel like if i had done things better and been more open or done more of the things she wanted, instead of being a teenager and ignoring her when she asked things of me, and been more greatful, i could have prevented this. Thats what makes me feel like a crappy person. But when she says hurtful things to me.. I just don't understand her at all. I understand being hurt, but its hard for me to understand it coming this far. And maybe it is my job to fix it. But that seems and feels impossible. And it's so hard to get back to anything close to the way it used to be. But I remember how, even when I was always there and trying to help, she still was losing the will to live. So maybe it isn't my fault at all, I just helped it along too far :( I'm not sure of it.. or anything! I think I will feel a little better when I can eventually get some real rest, which probably would have to be with my boyfriend, where i feel safer, but i don't know how that is ever going to happen again.. and he is definitely not enjoying us being kept apart. We are sleeping only 10 minutes apart tonight, and i can't be with him. He won't be at my moms house, because he is very angry with her and does not want to say anything rude which will upset me. And I can't go to my dads, because of the bad relationship him and my mother have, and she feels that when i go there i am pretty much betraying her and saying that she should have never protected me from him and fought for custody of me. But she doesnt seem to understand that its a place to stay and have some of my things, in a convinient location, and where i can be with my boyfriend and i can also see my little brother there. I actually find my dad VERY annoying and when i am there i avoid him at all costs and me, my boyfriend, and my brother alike all stay in our respective rooms and avoid him as much as possible. Lol. But my mom can NOT believe me for some reason and thinks we are all happy and best friends. She doesn't believe anything I say. she even told me that if she ever found out that my dad was babysitting the kid or she found out that me, my boyfriend, and my dad were all hanging out, she would kill herself. Its starting to feel like i cant and wont be able to do anything anymore! My BF and i also have tickets he bought us for a concert tomorrow night and i already KNOW its going to be nearly impossible to go to that and make that happen. Stressful! If only i could get that therapist to return my phone call and give me an appointment! This is all making me VERY nervous for the arrival of my little one, something i deperately need to be able to feel completely excited about.. but knowing how everything will be when i have him, if its like this, makes me super worried.
  7. dreamer1

    dreamer1 Member

    it sounds like your mom needs to be hospitalized right away. if she's threatening to kill herself and she's had a serious near-fatal attempt previously she is at high risk for dying by suicide.
    it isn't right that she's putting all of this on you. you should not have to bear this kind of weight, especially when you're pregnant. it sounds like your mom is not only depressed- it sounds like she's manipulating you and others emotionally by threatening and attempting suicide. you are an adult and you have the right to act as you see fit, with regard to your other family members e.g. your dad.
    sometimes people get into the habit of using suicide as a "coping" strategy. it sounds like your mom may do this. From what you say, she's in a very dark place and has been for a while, and it's likely that she's not going to snap out of it for any reason whatsoever. the only thing you can do is work to save her life, and the way to do that is to get her the medical care she needs. bending your will to suit her demands is not going to help her and it's going to hurt you.
  8. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Thanks for the response!

    Unfortunately, the state i live in is an at-will state. So she doesnt have to go if she doesnt want to. And if she thought they would really, i think she could be convinced.. but she has been to different places and specialists before, and they put you in groups and make you talk about things like your favorite color.. and she says she wants to be somewhere that will actually be helpful and have one on one care, not somewhere that wastes time asking dumb questions, placing you with people that have unsimilar problems.

    She is definitely at high risk. Every decision i make that is not exactly the way she wants it puts her at risk. Living my life is putting her at risk. Its scary. However, she has been off medications for awhile and when she was in the ICU a couple of days ago, her docs came in and represcribed all of them to her and gave her some new ones too. Im not sure the ones she was already on will help much since she was on them before and i know how it was then.. but it has never been THIS bad. She is not in a mindset to even think clearly. She keeps asking me the same questions over and over again. I'm hoping that they will help some, even a LITTLE bit.. to be better than this. The new meds prescribed she said was for schitzo patients. she does NOT have that, but apparently the doctor said that it can help with severe thoughts of suicide, so i really hope it makes a difference, but one where she can get back even close to being herself.. and not be a vegetable.. though that is what she says she wants.
  9. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    I just had the worst morning ever. I had to get up early for class and my mom was awake and got upset before I was leaving. She tried to make me give her my key to the house. She told me to go live with my dad and she would pack up all of my things. She said that I haven't given up anything for her since she moved here. That there was no food for her to eat, she hasn't asked me for anything and I was planning on.bringing food home. I told her I wanted to live with her and I love her and she told me I didn't love her. She also told me that she didn't believe in God anymore because of me and on my way out the door she slammed her door and I heard her scream that I was an "evil f**king b**ch".... I don't think I can do anything anymore. On my way to class she sent me a message saying she called my stepdad and now my cell phone bill and car insurance will no longer be paid for, and they were taking away my education benefits so my school won't be paid for anymore either. Great and perfect.... I won't be shocked if they want to take the car from me all together.... Great start to the day.
  10. xXWhateverItTakesXx

    xXWhateverItTakesXx Forum Buddy

    :hug: I am so sorry about your situation hun. But to me it sounds like she wants your attention 24/7 and that isn't possible. Maybe you should just leave her, for a day or two and maybe she can see how much she really needs you, because all she is doing at the moment is pushing you away. Sometimes we don't know what we have until we lose it.

    And you really need to be under less stress, as you have a child on the way. Sometimes being cruel is being kind. But honestly you can not keep putting yourself through this. I understand you don't want to lose your mum but is it worth your life being ruined?

    Just make her realise if she carries on you will be gone for good..

    :hug: xx
  11. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    I just wish she realized she is pushing me away. Even when I try to do good things, it means nothing to her. Today I tried to think of her a little bit while I was out shopping and it pretty much boiled down to a sarcastic "wow" at my efforts. What am I supposed to do? Chop off a limb and give it to her? How is it that me being in school and going to work is a bad thing? She s ays I don't have enough time for her in my schedule and is still continuously asking/telling me that I don't care abouther or love her or realize how much she has given up for me. She got very upset not long ago and I was able to see some of how much pain she is really in emotionally. It made me feel very sad and guilty and she felt like I wasn't listening and don't care. I am sitting in the living room now and she came out and asked what I was doing I said "messing on my phone" and she slammed the door to her room and I can her her crying in there. I do care. I do. But she is hurting me a lot... And Expecially when I show I care and she is very hurtful in return. I'm tired of being asked questions about why I dont care, what I'm gonna do if she dies.. and comments like how I'm not going to be able to get all my things from my whole life if she dies.. constan
    t threats! I was able to see my boyfriend last night but of course not stay with him, and we had a very long talk and I know he loves me and the baby and wants to be here for us and wants this relationship to work, and he was talking about the future and how he wants it to go.. it was very sweet. But my mom can not see past it being a choosing thing. Everything is me choosing something before her.
  12. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Being here could be so positive and good but now honestly it is stressing me out and makes me very nervous and like I'm fighting a battle I can't win. Yes my dad was horrible to my mom. And Im sorry he was. But my brother lives there and my boyfriend stays there on nights he is in town and I wish I could just go be with my boyfriend sometimes! I feel like a wedge is being placed in between us and its making both of us sick! My mom and stepdad say "if he really cared about you he would be forgiving and make ammends with your mother, and if he really wants to see you he will come over here and be a Man"... Then i get questioned: "shouldn't you guys be in an argument over this? What did you say? What did he say? What are his plans when the baby is born?" This is rediculous...

    Just wanna thank you all for any responses or reading. It does make me feel a lot better to get on here and see new comments. Sometimes I re-read them to remind myself that I'm not that bad of a person and that someone out there thinks I am making sense when I speak.
  13. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    How about telling them to STFU! :mad:

    No in all truth of course you can't, but I bet sometimes you feel like screaming it, or something similar :hug:
    Next time one of them says it I'd reply with "he stays away out of respect, he doesn't want to cause arguments or make the situation worse."
    Meanwhile, you are not your parents keeper.
    It sounds like you do everything to keep the peace, but what about you! you must be fed up to the backteeth of the whole thing.
    Be careful that being the constant care giver and the peacekeeper doesn't end with you having a complete breakdown.... I know from where I speak! The strain must be absolutely immense.
    Just hang on to the fact that when your step father is there on a permanent basis you can actually have a life.
    That life might mean walking away, or things just might be easier because he's there.
    If it does mean walking away, don't beat yourself up for wanting some semblance of a life. :hug:
  14. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Definitely getting fed up! They just CAN'T understand why he doesnt want to be around them I am already strongly not looking forward to this weekend, normally my favorite part of the week.. because they've already made vague comments about how if he won't be coming over here to spend time with me, they were just going to have to go his way to talk to him. I am so fed up it is unbelievable. Sometimes I just want to get in MY car and drive away! I do not like being around drama and they seem to want to be in the middle of it 24/7. They are so controlling. I finally told my mom my boyfriend wouldn't be coming over to her house and my stepdad freaked out saying "He WILL come over here and spend time at this house, I'm going to talk to him and YOU are going to tall to him. He will have a relationship with your mother. He doesn't have a choice." First of all, who does he think he is? Second since he said he doesn't believe in God now and my Mom likes to tell me she doesn't believe in God now either because of ME, and all the negativity and rediculous controlling behavior and drama.. I don't want to be at this house at all. Now I probably will have to go abother weekend without my boyfriend.. and they are totally ruining our relationship in all honesty, putting a huge wedge between us. And thatd probably exactly what they want. Since they said ot will never work, I guess its their mission to fullfill that prophecy no matter what and prove it to me. And if they are going to confront him, the anger and arguments that will probably arise from both sides will likely ruin anything else I have with my mom and stepdad and possibly make the final tear in mine and my boyfriends life, because he wants to have a happy normal life with me and the baby.. and all this stuff is taking that away and keeping him from me, he has so much built up anger. And if he explodes on them it will ruin everything, and vice versa. But they want to force that on us, probably by showing up at his work or something.. and they've already threatened me on making him lose the job he spent 7.5 years in college for, which if they do I don't know ill ever talk to them again.. but I'm worried my BF is gonna get fed up with thr drama and want to move along with our life.. only without me. And I can't control my mom or stepdad or him, so the confrontation will only go how they make it, which I'm sure will be horrible. expecially because my stepdad hasn't met him and he won't get to know my BF is a good person because he has too much anger in him to old back. It's like the only person who does like jeremy is my dad.. which is really weird and ironic..
  15. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    Can u possibly move out?

    Seriously, I know you will worry about your mum and she will probably act out, but this is beyond ridiculous.
    Not only is your mother using control tactics with threatening suicide, but your step-father is doing the same by threatening you boyfriend's job. :eek:hmy:

    I'm beginning to think the only move is a clean break, as no one seems to be the least bothered what you might want in all of this.
  16. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Yes I think that is exactly what will be happening. It's wierd, because with everything i'm going to lose, everyone says i should just get away and move out... even with what my mom needs me to be there with her for.

    Anyways, my boyfriend won't come over to the house. of course, like everything else, that is MY fault. Work ran really late tonight, we were crazy busy, and afterwards we talked a bit in a parking lot.. since we can't go to my dads or moms, and then went to get some food. I was gone for about 4 hours. I already texted and asked if they could talk tomorrow but i never got a response so on my way home my stepdad called me.

    He demanded to know where i was and said when i got to the house i was to give him the key to the car, i no longer have a car and am no longer insured. Then he made me give him the key to the house and said i was to be out of the house by 9 in the morning.

    When i got home, he proceeded to yell very loudly at me and cuss me out and basically tell me what a horrible person my boyfriend and i both are. My mom came out of her room, obviously being awoken, and was asking what was going on. And my stepdad started yelling about how i'd been at my dads house for the last 4 hours.. uhm. no i haven't. If i was doing that, i probably would actually sleep in the same bed as my boyfriend or, i don't know, maybe get to have sex every once in awhile.

    I'm just worried about my mom. And because its so late i can't get my boyfriend to wake up by calling him and i'm worried no one will be able to pick me up in five hours. And as well, I can hear him keep going outside. its 4am. He better not be touching any of me or my boyfriends things in MY car, but i have a bad feeling he is putting it all in the dumpster. Why else would he be going in and out in and out of the house.

    Everything with him is a self-fullfilling prophecy, i think. They say my boyfriend and my relationship wont work... they make that the only choice. My relationship with my mom is being ruined... they are not giving me a choice, expecially by making me leave. ect. ect. ect.

    He also told me tomorrow he is going to my boyfriends work and having him fired. my boyfriend didn't sound very worried. they act like im being selfish and not seeing whats in front of me. I say he is being mean and completely irrational and immature. You don't do things like this to people. Or maybe i just think that because i'm not like him. But this is all so ridiculous to me that i have lots of trouble not thinking that I'M crazy or the bad one. Because how could someone act like this and think it was okay? But when i say that, i really don't even believe it. I don't know WHAT to think anymore...
  17. Terry

    Terry Antiquities Friend Staff Alumni

    OK this man is obviously bloody barking! :mad:

    If your boyfriend does a good job I doubt this "lunatic" can get him fired, it will just be megally embarassing all round.
    And since when does a stepfather have the right to stop a daughter seeing her real father!

    This may feel very scarey at the moment, but in a way he's given you your freedom.
    You can now walk away with your conscience clear.
    He's the one throwing you out......run!
    Run and keep on going till you have the life you want for you and that baby.
  18. lotte

    lotte Well-Known Member

    I just spent an hour and a half writing a reply to you and it just got deleated :cry: :blub:
    I was basically saying how awsome you were. I'll re write it later when I feel better and explain your awsomeness
  19. lotte

    lotte Well-Known Member

    I'm not going to rewrite the entire thing, but I was basically explaining how my family acts the same way (useing manipulation and guilt trips to get 'love' from people because they don't know any other way to do it). A lot of my therapy had to do with this and how it negativly affects us. We called it the 'care-taking disease' because someone will get sick and force others to take care of them using guilt, which just makes the care taker sick and enables the one that is being taken care of. It's not that someone knows that they are consiously doing it, it just happens.This kind of seems like what is going on with you, but your situation sounds very serious because of your mother's suicide threat. I just thought you sounded really awsome, because while your family seems to have this 'disease', you are working against it and making great strides. When other people in your family act in an unhealthy way, it's really hard to separate yourself from their actions and not develop them yourself. It's hard to step back and realize that the way they treat you isn't okay, neither for them or for you. You could have just let yourself develop the care-taking disease or get mentally sick, but you didn't.You were able to get a job, go to school, meet a really wonderful guy (who sounds amazingly nice), and now you are having a baby! You've seemed to have a grown so much from a hard situation, and now you have the ability to start over. You can start a healthy life with your boyfriend and baby. And I'm sure that if your mother was in a healthy mental state, she would want you to do whatever is best for you and your child. Good luck with everything and I really hope that you can distance yourself from your parents, even though it's an impossiblly difficult thing to do. And I also hope that your stuff wasn't thrown in the dumpster :)
  20. littlealyssa

    littlealyssa Member

    Thank you so much! Sorry I havent been on here in awhile to update on anything. Looks like my insurance, car, and education got taken away or whatever. It sucks. But I'm tired of being emotionally blackmailed and its not worth it. If they don't take it away this time, its always going to be something else. My boyfriend came and picked me up and we put the little bit of things I had over there in the back of how truck and left. Unfortunately I had to leave most of my baby things. But hopefully ill get them back if not ill buy them since they were almost all gifts. Everything from my car was piled in the driveway when I woke up. My stepdad was waiting for me to leave and waited for my BF to get there and watch us load up. My BF didn't say a word or do anything and my stepdad started to verbally attack his character.. they've never even met... There are still things to be stressed about, but it is nothing like the horrible way I felt being there. I can get loans to finish school when the time comes, my BF said he would help me get a car. I haven't figured out the health insurance yet, but I will have to soon to cover all this prenatal care in the future.. found out stepdads insurance doesn't even cover it almost 7 months in to seeing my doc so I think they want their $ lol. I assumed all of these things were lost when I got kicked out... But then my mom would send me things like "if you and your BF don't make ammends with your stepdad before he leaves the country on Wednesday, he's taking your insurance. Don't take it out on me this is between you and your stepdad". Well, my stepdad must be crazy if he thinks I'm going to crawl to him apologizing, when HE should be apologizing, just so I can keep recieving financial benefits. I've had enough of that AND him quite frankly - I begged my mom not to marry him 11 years ago and if it weren't for his extreme emotional abuse my mom would probably be a lot better off.

    I've been at my dads. No I don't really enjoy it but I had to go somewhere and have somewhere to put my things. Anyway, my BF and I are getting our own place in a couple months.

    As far as most of my lifes belongings and
    furniture, pictures, extra. We can only pray my stepdad won't take those from me only out of spite. Because I think that is one of the meaner sickest things HW could do.. I can't stand him but I still planned on making sure he gets his mail he sent to my po box without my permission and took the other key to.
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