Political Correctness

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by FoundAndLost1, Dec 24, 2007.

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  1. What do you think about it, and do you think it has gone too far?

    I ask because someone in another thread here had written about what was otherwise a well-expressed and thought-provoking subject...however, they used what I thought was a derogatory term at the outset. They unfortunately became rather annoyed and defensive when I pointed this out. It is a term that is still commonly used, and it made me angry.

    ...To me, "political correctness" is not about society merely paying "lip-service" to groups that have formerly been (and still are) stigmatized, shunned, and seen by many of us as limited, even reprehensible in some capacity. It is NOT about using political correctness just because it is now seen as 'acceptable', but about seeing these groups as individuals, without old and ill-informed if not ignorant prejudices.

    Such limited views, long and commonly held, have and still do cause immeasureable harm and suffering, excluding and marginalizing them - Labelling them and cutting short their hope of being accepted, of living their lives with dignity, of finding and using their potential. We know who many of these groups are...may in fact be one of them.

    Can humanity's slow progress at seeking to understand and accept others for who they are, instead of judging them with prejudice, EVER go too far? (I think not...)
     
  2. itmahanh

    itmahanh Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    Political correctness is just a facade that weak individuals have found to hide behind. Maybe I'm too old school. But when you have to consider EVERY word before you can utter it? Thoroughly investigate any forum or group that you wish to support so as to not insult any other individual or group? And that individuals in given races or ethnic groups can use the exact terms and words amongst themselves about themselves, but damn others for using them? In a society where programs like the Sopranos is ranked #1 but then so easily condemed by the very people that put it that high in the ratings in the 1st place? Where the daily exercise of a simple prayer said in the schools becomes an endeavour of petitions and political involvement? But the right to carry a concealed weapon to honor religious beliefs is readily acceptable? That the rights of the few far out weigh the needs of the many? That discipline is no longer an acceptable means for parents but then they are shunned by the same people that took that right away when their child commits some hideous crime? By uttering one word in the wrong tense can cause so many others to look down upon the speaker? The world has gone crazy, and I just seemed to have forgotten to jump on the bandwagon and accept it as normal or refuse to be politically correct. I can still laugh at myself and even laugh when others are pointing out all my faults. But that labels me as politically incorrect. Political correctness has created a whole generation of individuals with no back bone. No inner strength to say what they rally mean or want to convey. A people that have forgotten to turn the other cheek, take things with a grain of salt, respect the rights of indivduals to be just that. If you don't like what the other person is saying so be it. It's an opnion. You can take it for what it was worth and deal with it or ignore it. A world of people that would rather hide behind a facade than stand alone and maybe have an individual thought. "You laugh at me because I'm different. I cry for you because you are all the same." Fuck being correct! I'm a cold loving "crazy canuck" that hates to be told what I can or can't say, that thinks it is ok to be "handicapped" with my disease and that a "good" spank across my kids ass when they and I both know they deserve it and to look out for the "best interest" of my own first and to call someone like me a "Ukrainian" because damn it I am one, that doesn't like to be interrupted by the "rug rats" when the Sopranos is on, I'm not financially challenged I'm fucking "broke" and proud that I manage to keep my kids happy, all these things may not be politically correct but then I never was into politics!!!!!! And finally what did policital correctness do for the post that this all started in? It distracted the readers from the real issue and drew all the attentions to some stupid little word that was possibly used in error ( depending on what side of the fence your sitting on!)
     
  3. Azul

    Azul Well-Known Member

    I'm all for political correctness, but it has to be something the individual chooses himself. You're not going to change people's minds by limiting their language, the ideas in their mind will remain the same. If they still think "n*i*g*g*e*r*" but don't say it there is no difference. So imposed political correctness is useless. I think the only politically correct thing to do is proper education and honest information for everyone so people can make their own mind up, so people have a choice "am i holding on to these prejudices or not"
     
  4. Most unfortunately, proven time and again throughout our history, those prejudices were and are slippery l'il devils! Often we are not even aware that we harbour them. And even if we do and admit it, we don't see them as "wrong", but the way things SHOULD be...

    I agree that education is a way to battle them (good point, but it's an ongoing battle - no?), and I agree that you can't force someone to unthink they're point of view. But reforming or expanding one's knowledge base is not something that many take upon themselves freely or easily when they already think that they're ultimately "Right".

    Too often, changes that needed to happen had to be enforced in one manner or another, either by insistant and compassionate individuals and groups (and/or the long-suffering) who introduced new ideas, new views into the mainstream - OR by law - as in the Emmancipation Act for black slaves (and they still had - and still DO have - a LONG tough road ahead of them). This is only but ONE of countless examples... it shows me at least that we as a race aren't as far ahead as we like to think we are - that there is always room for improvement, or 'enlightenment' if you will.

    Let me use another example that might hit closer to home - we here at the suicide forum, because of our many and varied problems, might have well ALL been classified as LUNATICS and placed in a sanitorium - in other words, a warehouse for the supposedly insane. And make no mistake it STILL happens... But because so many voices spoke up in the past on behalf of the mentally ill, including the mentally ill themselves, things are slowly changing, and here we are, free to chat about our personal foibles and very real challenges, instead of being instantly locked up a lifetime, out-of-sight-out-of-mind.

    I know, I know (!), neither you nor I can stop certain individuals (perhaps even our families) from calling us loony, retard, crazy and all the other derogatory names that come from a place of ignorance --- what I'm saying is, again, we humans are never done with that ongoing battle I mentioned previously - as all groups/individuals who try to find their own voices for expressing their 'sameness', their place within the human race, with dignity, instead of accepting segregation and persecution, closed minds, and prejudice will also attest to.

    Saying that it's all gone too far (!) is to determine, without right to judge, that we've come as far as we need to go - know all we need to know. And that to me, and many others, is simply not acceptable...
     
  5. itmahanh

    itmahanh Senior Member & Antiquities Friend

    Well, as for me, in my tiny little uneducated corner of this planet, I think it is a crying shame that political correctness is being used to cover up the real problems instead of dealing with them. Sure issues are being brought forth, but then it's here I am , in your face and now deal with it by the rules, laws and standards we have set out. Not let's try and resolve them but rather let's just swing as far opposite of how others felt before with no chance of comminicating or working through the issues. Political correctness is just a cover used by the weak individuals of this society that have lost the ability to stand as an individual. When you take away the rights to freedom of speech, freedom of choice (which I feel political correctness is really doing) then you allow generations of people to suffer the loss to rights of individuality. My father is from "the old country" and I envy him that he says what he wants to say without having to second guess his own thougths or feelings for fear that it might offend someone. And he is a very repsected man in his field of collegues, business associates, friends and family for that very reason. I do not "see" or judge another person by their race, color, disablilities or abilities. I see them as the individual that God created them to be.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2007
  6. Snooze

    Snooze Well-Known Member

    im not into writing long posts.

    political correctness is 'reverse racism' if you ask me.
    just an opinion among the rest.
     
  7. ggg456

    ggg456 Guest

    There are many types of political correctness, depending on context- on a personal scale, or on a wider political/social scale- it depends on where a person is standing, who is speaking and where they are placed politically and what they are aiming for. I won't go into it- but it's fascinating, I find racism and prejudice and everything just fascinating...
     
  8. Sigh - since it's Christmas (though not for ALL - that would be politically INcorrect!), and to show I DO have a sense of humour while we are at opposite ends of the pole, this is my gift to all the naysayers - you may just find a new home here at this site!!

    www.capc.co.uk
     
  9. Eztral

    Eztral Member

    I feel the urge to hit ppl who tell me to say "african-america" when I say black, saying that every black man\woman is from either africa or america is dumbtarded.

    Political correctness is used to protect the weak of mind, and the ones that doesn't dear to stand up for a cause. But the problem with Political correctness today is that it has become so utterly overprotective that one is not allowed to say ones opinion. There has to be a border.

    Examples as to use word as n*igger and such isn't about political correctness, it's about ignorence and prejustice.

    It's a impossible task to define where to what we can't and can say.
    It's good with guidelines, but the term "politically correct" has turned into sensorship..
     
  10. Panther

    Panther Well-Known Member

    I pretty much agree with Simon Cowell who said "I hate political correctness, I absolutely loathe it"
     
  11. possessednomad

    possessednomad Well-Known Member

    I can't stand political correctness.

    'Political correctness is just tyranny with manners' - Charlton Heston.
     
  12. fixintodie

    fixintodie Active Member

    With freedom of speech there will always be racist expression.

    getting rid of prejudicewould be impossible, yet many people will keep trying. In John Rauch's words an enlightened and efficient intellectual regime would let prejudice bloom.
    "It avoids any attempt to stamp out prejudice,because stamping out prejudice really means forcing everyone to share the same prejudice, namely that of whoever is in authority.

    ridding prejudice can be seen as prejudice itself. some people may not want to share the view that homosexuals should get married while others may argue they should have every right as humans to do what they want. Both sides will argue forever; explaining why they think this and think that, whether gays are humans or not, if they should be treated as equals as heterosexuals, but which ever view passes, the opponent may feel prejudice took place against them.

    "It is the error we punish, not the errant."

    only purist or insanely too the far left liberals believe that by eradicating all forms of discrimination that everyone will be happy and free. Sure that may be the case, but that will cause society to be nothing but a facade. Allowing an exchange of ideas no matter how absurd, allows a barrier
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2007
  13. fixintodie

    fixintodie Active Member

    "words which pluralists hope can be substituted for violence, are redefined as purists as violence."

    Let's admit people can get extremely angry. Wouldn't it be better to call Akbar Salim a "camel-headed jockey whoshould go back to the desert" , as a last resort to control anger in a feud, then physically injure him? Language helps us understand one another and engage in objective discussion, as well as shed an objective light as to the level of stupidity of a person one is dealing with. Violence on the other hand can lead to death. Also by eliminating words that can be considered racist or prejudice against a group of people will totally undermine our first amendment. Some may argue as to a form of "emotional damage" done by racial slurs and fear which People must learn to become strong and not become extremely offended by negative slurs. For these to stop, much time,effort and education will need to be enforced. Until then people can learn to use these opportunities to their cause. Being called a bad name in a sense can be a good thing, because you can voice your opinion about your true values, and maybe even influence the other person, as well as shed new light on the type of character you are dealing with. There will be no bullshit from people, just honesty.

    it is impossible to change over 6 billion peoples views to one centralized view, unless you got some omnipotent being pulling the strings or something. words can be sick, vile, and emotionally disturbing i say on the other hand, but all this censorship in the media and by purists isn't doing that great a job in stopping it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 26, 2007
  14. WOW - some very intelligent and thought-provoking comments here. I (of course) prefer it to the "baby being thrown out with the bathwater" mentality so to speak... Admittedly it IS a process, and can very much be a faulty one at that. It CAN be abused and become very silly and trivial in instances - so is freedom of speech.

    ...I must disagree (barring those who might abuse both) that it is for the "weak" - "majority" who (according to those who see it ALL as a threat) have no other voice, but have rather found their voices. That said, listening AND expressing both take practice...
     
  15. VALIS

    VALIS Well-Known Member

    at least political correctness emphasizes the need for respect and is a concept arising from a good intention, if we don't have those two present then its just a racist free-for-all where everyone is left to their own discretion. a lot more room for misinterpretation there. better to have guidelines that at least attempt to respect everyone then absolutely no structure in the media as to what is acceptable
     
  16. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    The stupidest term ever developed as a result of political correctness has to be "African American". In America, that's what they (not me) call black people. As if blacks only come from Africa! Forget about Haiti, Jamaica, Martinique or any NUMBER of places from whence people of a darker complexion come. Nobody else in the WORLD does this! Does anyone say "African-French" or "African-U.K.an"? Why do you think that is? Because people in other countries are intelligent enough to know that dark-skinned people come from MANY other places besides Africa! "Black" is NOT a racial slur any more than "White" is. I have no problem with people calling me white as opposed to "European-American" because I understand that it is a simplification referring to a person of light color (I'm "light peach with some freckles" BTW if you want to get technical), and every BLACK person I know feels the same way about being referred to as BLACK. No, people are not black in color any more than I am white in color, but we don't all feel the need to break out the Oswald Color System in order to refer to the appearance of a specific individual. Put the swatches away and get over it!
     
  17. Azul

    Azul Well-Known Member

    But all black people originate from Africa, wether they live in Jamaica or Canada or Brazil. It's the African ethnic type, like white people living in Australia could still be called "the european type".
     
  18. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member

    But we ALL (the human race) originate from Africa at some point (according to scientists). I am "African American" then if you wanna get right down to it and I'm white as can be. Silly.
     
  19. ggg456

    ggg456 Guest

    My girlfriend refuses to say she's "black" or "mixed race" (her mother is Irish, father Nigerian)- she says she's "brown" and that's it although there's no box for 'brown' when they do those ethnic profiling things. I usually tick "Indian", although none of my parents come from India:laugh:, it just seems to be the safe middle country. Or sometimes I am 'other' and I refuse to say where I'm 'from.' I'd like to say I'm from 'London' but there's no option for that..
     
  20. I really like the comments going back and forth - some in particular about using "Black" and "African American" - and Origins (thought it was kind of funny how we don't say "African French", etc...). This is what I mean when I say it's an ongoing (albeit controversial) process and dialogue. And it's only one...

    BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Tanzania, Ethiopia origin for humans
    (long, but thorough)(sorry - I cannot make it show up as a link)

    www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/johanson.html
    (shorter...)

    I'd also like to add that one of my longtime pet peeves re: the subject/thread is the use of the terms "America", "American", as well as "United States of America" - after all, it is not the entire continent of North America, as well as there being a South America. Think I'm too picky?? (lol)
     
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