Political Debate

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by shedhaddock, Apr 17, 2013.

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  1. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    Obviously politics is a serious debatable topic. I am curious as to know what you guys feel, so here it comes...

    In your opinion, who is the worst politician in UK history?

    I am thinking Gordon Brown. I just plain didnt like him.
     
  2. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    I honestly don't know that much about politics because it's one of those issues that gets me really angry, but I think that's a key point. A very large majority of voters don't know all that much about it - we simply know what each party stands for. I've seen people give an opinion on how they have found life under this and that Prime Minister only to be told that their opinion doesn't matter because they have no idea about politics. Well, again, I think that is key.

    For instance, putting it in the simplest of terms...all I see is Labour letting the "work shy" (and by that I mean the people who are able to work, but don't want to because they like getting benefits) continue on as they are, not even trying to change that...and then Conservative forcing the people who are actually unable to work into work or else cutting their benefits. Of course there are a number of other factors to consider, but that is how the surface looks and that is how the majority sees it. Where's the "fair" option?

    I couldn't name who I think the worst politician is, though anyone in that position of power should use their influence to do good, not look after their own interests. I can appreciate that the Prime Minister is put under a lot of stress and is up against a lot of loud competition in the House of Commons, but they need to stand for something that matters and makes life better.

    It drives me mad when people say the Conservatives are the "rich people's party." MP's are rich, no matter the party - looking out for the rich means looking out for themselves and that is what they want. They aren't going to do something that will harm themselves and their friends and families. None of them understands what it's really like to be working class, to struggle to pay bills or find work. Both the main parties tax us like crazy.

    Last election I voted Conservative and I complain about everything they do. The election before I would have voted Labour and I complained about them. The only reason I didn't vote was because, even though I had turned 18 the previous year the government still hadn't registed me as a voter.

    Every single person votes, sees that party win, and then complains about stuff they do. We always will. The government is ruled by the rich. Now, at election time, I simply take that online quiz which matches my main interests to the correct party because I don't believe a word the candidates say.
     
  3. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    I didnt vote for either of the Conservacrates and they still both got in. Im not even sure if a coalition governemnt works. I do however think that if Tony Blair stood for Prime minister again, i would probably vote for him. Churchill was another of my inspirators too. :D
     
  4. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    James Callaghan, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown without a shadow of a doubt. The first and last being the worst.
     
  5. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    Im not the only one who didnt like Gordon Brown :yay:
     
  6. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Gordon Brown was truely awful. I disagreed with him being PM fro the start, he was not even elected party leader to take over from Blair. And I put Blair into that catergory because he was spineless with no conviction. He was George Bush's bitch and had no business going into Iraq. Yes I agree something needed doing about Saddam Hussein but the way it was done was disgusting and he should face war crime charges. And the other thing is, he is responsible for this Jeremy Kyle culture we have today. People can blame Thatcher all they like, but Blair enabled them further instead of helping these people get back into work, made it easier for them to claim benefits. But I found that the people who truly needed the benefits, either off on long term sick, disability, lost their job and looking for work, found it incredibly difficult to get anything from the state, yet people who have no intentions of working got thousands of £££ from the state, and it is still going on today. The one thing that went in Blair's favour was the NHS, he did a very good job with it (as much as I hate to say it).
     
  7. skinnylove911

    skinnylove911 Well-Known Member

    Gordon Brown
     
  8. Androgyny

    Androgyny Well-Known Member

    Couple of Qs from antipodean POV who doesn't know that much about UK politics...

    1) Is Brown a victim of the "last PM was crap" effect or was he really that monsterously incompetent?

    2) Is it possible that Brown was essentially the fall guy put in place to take the brunt of the fall out of the decline of Blair's administration?
     
  9. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    He was monstrously incompetent. Previous to being primeminister, he was Chancellor of the Exchequer for 10 years, yet when we hit the worst recession in years he said he didn't see it coming. How can you be Chancellor of the Exchequer for 10 years and NOT see it coming? He knew, and covered it up. He was just, terrible.
     
  10. Androgyny

    Androgyny Well-Known Member

    So that's yes to both... :lol:

    He no doubt saw it coming but evidently thought he could bluff through it.... that indicates you had a really stupid, arrogant man on yr hands....

    But then again, isn't that part of the general job description for getting into mainstream politics?
     
  11. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    Brown was just spineless in every aspect. He wasnt voted in publicly. He couldnt even think for himself. I always got the impression he would hide behind anyone and anything.
     
  12. Androgyny

    Androgyny Well-Known Member

    Me too. And I had no idea what was really going on. Just the vibe I got from photographs of the guy... that's why I asked the second part of the question. He seemed like the kind of goon who was essentially set up to fail because Blair + his cronies knew he'd be too proud and stupid not to think he could pull it off. Some thin happened with the state I live in... The premier quit just as stuff was starting to go south and he knew it, so of course by the time they got to the next election, they put in a stooge who was destined to get annihilated in the polls. Which he did, of course.
     
  13. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    Couldn't agree more! I don't hate Blair but I'm not a fan, either. That's what I was getting at in my other post - two parties with two different extremes and no fair middle.
     
  14. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    There may have been someone worse that Gordon Brown..... Michael Foot or whatever his name was !!
     
  15. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    Oh look, the great work shy myth has been perpetuated even on here. Fact is BECAUSE of Gordon Brown and his policies as chancellor unemployment went down every single year of Labours 13 years in office. The deficit that Camerfool likes to go on about is a myth, read this: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ramesh-patel/growth-cameron-austerity_b_2007552.html and then watch George Osbourne getting found out as being a liar here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AQYfPhtWpy8

    Also you do realise that people on this very forum are being labelled as being work shy and lazy because they cant work and have to claim benefits right? Its bigotry plain and simple and to see people using those terms on here, to me is just sickening.

    As for the worst prime minister or politician, thats easy, it was Harold Wilson. Much is made of how Margaret Thatcher did this, did that, fact is she wouldnt have had to any of it if it wasnt for the sheer incompetence of Harold Wilson
     
  16. snarrylover

    snarrylover Well-Known Member

    Maybe read what was written and the context in which "work shy" was used before being sickened by it. I'm one of those people claiming benefits, and I know a lot of people on here are, too, which was why my previous comment said that the government should take in the other factors - like how some can't work because of emotional problems, mental illness, etc, but are being forced to apply for jobs they aren't comfortable with, or having their benefits taken away/cut because the government only sees it in plain black and white. But there are people who simply don't want to work and those are the ones who ruin the system for everyone else. The "work shy" stereotype exists for a reason.
     
  17. Butterfly

    Butterfly Pokémon Master Staff Alumni SF Author SF Supporter

    Wayne if you read what I said before, I said it was disgusting how those who had no intention to work ended up getting more benefits and money than those who really deserved it e.g unemployed trying desperately for a job, disabled people, carers, people who cannot work for whatever reason. The state should help these people more instead of all the bozo's you see on Jeremy Kyle who think it's great that they don't work, will never work and the state pays for it.


    And yes, Harold Wilson. Hah! He really was terrible.
     
  18. Kaos General

    Kaos General Well-Known Member

    But thats my entire point, those people do not exist. The government has lied, consistently, just to get the entire country focused on what is literally a non issue. Nearly 50% of people who have claimed job seekers allowance in the past year have never done so in their life, 30% had been working for the majority of the past year, 10% had been out of work for 2 years but had worked previously, 5% had moved onto sickness benefits and only 5% had never worked. That 5% is what the entire country is frothing at the mouth about. Unfortunately because of that 5% every single person on benefits are classed as scroungers, work shy, lazy and feckless. Forget about context, its bigotry whatever way you want to dress it up and justify it to yourself

    Now consider that these people that everyone is calling scroungers makes up only 3% of the entire welfare bill you begin to see just how ridiculous it really is.
     
  19. shedhaddock

    shedhaddock Banned Member

    I can see both arguments of this new bedroom tax too, perhaps they shouldnt have targeted it so much at the elderly but they wont even help me with social housing, yet i know 2 different families who were given a newly built houses with 2/3 bedrooms in and its one married couple and one single person. The married couple both work full time and suffer diabeties, the single person works part time and has the option for more hours but wont take them because they get paid more in benefits if they stay part time and it cheeses me off so bad
     
  20. In Limbo

    In Limbo Forum Buddy

    The original question - who was the worst politician in British history...

    Brown, Blair, Thatcher have nothing on Oswald Mosley.
     
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