(POLL) Socialism or Capitalism?

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by suicide_ideation, Jul 30, 2007.

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Which do you think is the most moral economic system: Socialism or Capitalism?

  1. Socialism

    15 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Capitalism

    13 vote(s)
    37.1%
  3. Other

    7 vote(s)
    20.0%
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  1. Which do you think is the most moral economic system: Socialism or Capitalism?
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2007
  2. Well, obviously, this hasn't worked, but I'm glad, it didn't take 20 hours, to appear on the boards. :biggrin:

    Well, here are interesting quotes from the Bible.

    Acts 2:44-45:

    Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need.

    Acts 4:32-35:

    Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need.
     
  3. It worked, thanks Jenny.

    Y'all can elaborate, if you wish. :-D
     
  4. ACRon

    ACRon Well-Known Member

    went for other, as i'm an anarchist, a nihilist, a fundamentalist and also a ninja of the Glorious Shadowkhan tribe who's main duties include pretending I care about this stuff
     
  5. Esmeralda

    Esmeralda Well-Known Member


    I believe that as nations go, Capitalism is by far better for the economy.

    As far as personal ideals and beliefs go, Socialism has its place, like in the examples you cited above.

    Let me clarify. The examples above were in reality related to the first "churches". They were not churches made of brick and mortar, but churches in the sense that members of a community of believers (in Christianity in this case) took care of each other and in the material/spiritual needs of its respective members.

    So while they were living in a society and followed the rules and laws therein (rendering to Caesar, what belonged to Caesar - Mark 12:17), they voluntarily took it upon themselves to practice a form of Socialism within their religious communities, taking care of each other and therefore the "church".

    It is the liberty of choice here that allows the human spirit to grow and not be stifled by laws forcing them to be charitable, but encourages the practice of charity nonetheless.

    We (Christians and those of other faiths as well) are bound by a moral code that has nothing to do with economics or politics. They are and should be separate.
     
  6. Azul

    Azul Well-Known Member

    Socialism in what sense? In the sense of Castro or the Western European model? There are many kinds of socialism.
    If you're talking about an authorative kind of socialism like Castro's then you can see the problem. Yes it may be more just but I don't think the people are really happy with it. Which doesn't mean that the answer is capitalism.
    Socialism here in Western Europe seems to be a more caring kind of capitalism. the modes of production are left unchanged, and capital still plays the biggest role, but there is more emphasis on redistribution of wealth to the needy.
    Last time I voted I voted communist instead of socialist because I think the change will not come from socialists. In the end socialism doesn't want to change the system but preserve it - this means that the big companies still run things, but with a little more protection for the workers. But the whole system needs to changed - people's lives should be the priority, not economic progress.
     
  7. ~CazzaAngel~

    ~CazzaAngel~ Staff Alumni

    :clap: :clap:
     
  8. Azul

    Azul Well-Known Member

    Peanut wrote:

    I believe that as nations go, Capitalism is by far better for the economy

    It is also very good for alienation, stupifying people into soulless materialism and , creating a big gap between rich and poor, the specialisation of work into infinite monotonous tasks that devalue life where work should have been something meaningful creative and the essence of a man’s pride, It is also very good for the general disenchantment of a world that was once held sacred into sellable objects, which will in turn like a fetish control man instead of the other way around, the distribution of space to private rather than public needs, which means the rich have space and the poor are confined in ghettos and prisons, the propagation of the individual as an atom surrounded by other competitive atoms thus cutting social strings, the propagation of the only language that can be understood by anyone but which makes deaf for every other language: Money, which further alienates from the true value of the world to the isolating symbolic value of exchange.

    So while they were living in a society and followed the rules and laws therein (rendering to Caesar, what belonged to Caesar - Mark 12:17), they voluntarily took it upon themselves to practice a form of Socialism within their religious communities, taking care of each other and therefore the "church".

    Jesus remark on "render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar" is interpretable in another way. It doesn’t mean "obey the law". It means what does money matter? Money is a matter of the world. Give the world its Money, we don’t need it, let us sons of God deal with the spiritual.
    It is more an expression of contempt for the law than a condonation of it.

    We (Christians and those of other faiths as well) are bound by a moral code that has nothing to do with economics or politics. They are and should be separate.

    Politics should start from morals. Economics as well. Separate the two and you end up with the horrors of capitalist amorality. Capitalism arose precisely at the period when this idea of state and church separation was getting popular (which was convenient to the entrepreneur who then wouldn't have to mind the very restrictive attitude of the church towards investing money). Faith and morality should not be confined to the private sphere, to make that distinction is exactly what makes us powerless over politics and economy.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 31, 2007
  9. Amen, Azul. :agreed:

    :shake:
     
  10. "The ruling class, the minority at present, has the schools, the press, usually the church as well under it's thumb, this enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses and make it's tool of them" -Albert Einstein

    Anarcho-capitalism, in my opinion, is a doctrinal system which, if ever
    implemented, would lead to forms of tyranny and oppression that have few
    counterparts in human history. There isn't the slightest possibility that
    its (in my view, horrendous) ideas would be implemented, because they would
    quickly destroy any society that made this colossal error. The idea of "free
    contract" between the potentate and his starving subject is a sick joke,
    perhaps worth some moments in an academic seminar exploring the consequences
    of (in my view, absurd) ideas, but nowhere else. Noam Chomsky
     
  11. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    One that the US is operating under I detest. I can't wait to get out of town. Did anyone here have a taste of what being an American & an American dream has imagined?

    I just went to the Hall of Fame (US/International-Ten'ez) acdg to one of the articles was sent to me is how this place so elegant ,the game was founded ,from the monastery to monarchy, the rich & the famous Europeans white,uper class size or shape,you name it they post it. I draggg my self there & I came home so disappointed. I do believed that whoever put this place together has no clue what an elegance means or have not traveled.I was so disgusted . Its like the Olympics in Athens. OMG,how pathetic....
     
  12. Bostonensis

    Bostonensis Guest

    Post sript: Based on my observations of the American way of life. I noticed that people are set up to be against each other.I am not sure if this is conscious or not. Too much emphasis on the differences rather than the commonality.

    The attitude is like "you mind your own business even in front of your face somebody is getting beat up.They just look & watch. Too disensitized.Kids are beating at each other,what the adults do watch them.

    Neighbors are crying for help ," o its non of my business". Even between families ,they are strangers to each other. What is this?

    Get out of town stop whining; menn I seriously wish. Responsibility keeps me here. Otherwise I am gone. This land is seriously pandemically ill.
     
  13. fromthatshow

    fromthatshow Staff Alumni

    Sorry to dig up such an old thread. I've been studying socialism for a while. I actually capitalism can at least be partially to blame for poor mental health. Under a capitalist system, so many of us feel disconnected from one another. And that is certainly what the system represents. Every man is an island, and in order to move up, someone else has to come down.
     
  14. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    Elaborate on how exactly these interpersonal relations are differn't under a socialist government and explain why this is a cause of a "Capitalist society" rather than just the fact the animals do not help things they have no vested interest in.


    As far as socialism goes, I quite like paying taxes too provide healthcare and food and shelter when I am out of work, beyond that though I think I really would rather kill myself than live under the governments of any supposed socialist government that has every existed.
     
  15. Little_me

    Little_me Well-Known Member

    I voted for "capitalism" but I meant "other"...
    It is possible to combine socialism and capitalism, I live in a country that does. Here there is economic and industrial progress like in any other capitalist country but the people is the highest priority (e.g. education and healthcare is free for citizens).
     
  16. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Er, that's basically the definition of socialism. If you ask someone to name a socialist country Sweden would be pretty high on the list.
     
  17. Issaccs

    Issaccs Well-Known Member

    I dont really think thats fair, most of Europe are ran by liberal capitalist governments and I would argue that so are the States and have been progressing down that line since F.D.Roosevelt. Unemployment benefit and basic healthcare does not make a socialist country.


    Most simple definitions of socialism go along the lines of "a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole."


    That much more closely describes the USSR or China, which is basically just a sign of peoples ignorance that neither entity was ever under a communist system.
     
  18. Robin

    Robin Guest

    I say we blow up the Tardis :p
     
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