Pornography

Discussion in 'Soap Box' started by JonathanK, Feb 3, 2010.

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What do you think of porn?

  1. Porn's a good thing and maybe even beneficial to society.

    32 vote(s)
    28.3%
  2. Its neutral.

    53 vote(s)
    46.9%
  3. Porn's bad and has a negative impact on society.

    28 vote(s)
    24.8%
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  1. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member

    I was just curious. I've been wondering about porn lately, Should it be rejected or continued to be accepted as it is; I don't think porn made between consenting adults should be illegal, but I think there's perfectly valid arguments for society to voluntarily end its consumption of porn. There's some really sleazy elements. I saw a documentary on youtube about a porn actress named Beladonna, who while at a video shoot, was made by her producer to have unprotected sex. She could have opted out of it, but she wouldn't have been paid. So, she did the take without protection and ended up contracting an STD. I don't think objectification of people is a healthy thing, and, as that example alluded to, there's too much of a potential for exploitation. You could make the argument that its really a legal form of prostitution. I mean, just because someone does a porno video or hooks up with an old guy, it doesn't necessarily mean they enjoy it. More likely, they're just trying to get money for rent, car payments, school, and even drug habits. Don't get me wrong, I've looked at porn before, but I'm considering giving up on it. Anyway, I'd like to see some of your opinions in the subject.
     
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  2. Bambi

    Bambi Well-Known Member

    I picked the first option but do think that one can take the role of porn in their life to unhealthy levels. I also believe that some porn is objectionable but to categorically say it is is "bad" I just don't agree with that assessment.
     
  3. nagisa

    nagisa Chat & Forum Buddy Staff Alumni

    I said neutral. I think it's people who make it "good" or "bad."
     
  4. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    I think youd have more luck getting rid of money than removing "porn". For me it's like anything, you will get bad elements in it. And it's easy to get into and easy to be exploited. But I think youll have to get into more specific areas, cause I dont know where youre coming from.

    Do you mean where people are exploited or where there is extreme graphical nature?

    Anyhow, porns been around forever. I can't really work my head around even making it illegal, it just would't work. Sex is in our nature, I think its the events that make people go into the porn industry that need to be looked at. It's like anything, it has it's benifical aspects, it's vanilla, and it's negative. Donno, to bland a question i think :D
     
  5. Zurkhardo

    Zurkhardo Well-Known Member

    It's a carnal indulgence like any other, and far more harmless than many alternatives (with the exception of child porn).
     
  6. bluegrey

    bluegrey Antiquities Friend

    At the risk of stepping in it big time I believe pornography, on balance is a positive addition to the human experience. When you stop and think about it pornography is everywhere in human form and walking amongst us. For the person who finds themself to be in the enviable position of being conventionally attractive, male or female, they live with acclaim and many of the privileges of rarity. There are a few downsides of being attractive, most notably and in (cough, cough) my own daily experience the tendency for admirers to objectify. Some days I feel cheap, just a piece of meat for the ladies. :rolleyes:

    To indulge one's primal procreational urge in front of say, a Taco Bell in broad daylight is generally frowned upon and usually results in the individual partaking being whisked away to the slam and getting passed around by its inhabitants like a pack of Lucky Strikes. What to do for said sap of poor judgment to escape this fate? Go online and search for the very same images observed in public only without that pesky impediment of clothing forcing the above mentioned hapless slug to use imagination of what lies beneath.

    Using the pharmaceutical industry as an analogy, it can bring health benefits and an incalculable increase in one's quality of life but ONLY when strictly policed and regulated. All humor aside, unregulated pornography operations result in some of the most heartbreaking child abuse, imprisonment and/or deliberate drug dependence of its "models" and the promotion of human trafficking especially from poor and underdeveloped countries.

    A pensive yes here.
     
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  7. corang

    corang Well-Known Member

    I voted neutral I agree I dont see the problem if its 2 consenting adults. It can be good to some people as we all know most if not all people watching it are doing something else at the same time. :wink: Masturbation helps in relieving stress helps people know what they like and other things I cant remember at the moment.

    Unfortunetly it can become a problem porn and masturbation addiction are real things.
     
  8. Avarice

    Avarice Well-Known Member

    Ugh, absolutely not. I think it's disgusting. As for the impact on society, as long as it's kept to the top shelfs and isn't literally thrown in your face everywhere you go - generally kept a private thing; I've no problem with other people doing whatever they want. So I guess neutral, to an extent.
     
  9. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member

    Sorry. I'll elaborate on the top what I was aiming at.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2010
  10. Bob26003

    Bob26003 Well-Known Member

    I voted porn is a good thing and maybe beneficial to society.

    Because I think we are way repressed and taught to be ashamed of our sexuality
     
  11. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    :D it's a cool question. It makes me look at all the things connected to it a bit more
     
  12. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member

    (I couldn't edit my original post to elucidate on why I made the poll so simple.)

    Like I said, I don't think it should be illegal. You can be against something without resorting to changes in the penal system of the law. That's how I feel about gambling and alcohol. I know there's responsible people involved in the two activities, but I also know there's enough bad elements in it, (gambling addiction, alcohol, profiting on human misery and hopeful expectations in life that have been missed out on, etc) that I think it would be better off if people, as a generality, made an independent decision not to do any of that. I see government as a potential evil, itself, that should be avoided in most cases, and that, where possible, people should govern their selves through their own decisions based off of self education on such matters. As history shows, if you make something illegal, a black market develops, and you really don't want to leave the porn, alcohol, and gambling industry to that. It would only become a lot more seedy than it already is. You want laws imposed to keep murder illegal and the rights of minorities protected from the opinion of the majority or the powerful by a legal system, because that system benefits everyone. Those are laws and a structure, in theory, that keep people protected from straight forward abuses. When something's still a grey area, though, its better to use education and debate than to use government action. Otherwise you might end up getting a moral, police state. The questions might be bland, but I wanted to make it open ended. Everyone who's sane is going to agree that, in such and such a specific area, like snuff porn or rape porn, that that's crossing the line. I'm just asking very general questions, because I want to know the opinions from other people on how they feel the porn industry is, as a whole. There's a yin and a yang to everything, but you can determine the merit of a system, in its entirety, based on if the bad or the good outweigh each other. I should have been more clear about that. I'm doing this for the comments more than the poll. I'm currently neutral, possibly leaning toward the bottom option on the poll. I'm just doing this to read some other opinions to see if I'll swing one way or the other.

    I just want to know if there's something fundamental and universal in all porn that dis-merits all of it, as I feel there is with cigarettes and alcohol. Universally, I think cigarettes and alcohol pose health and social risk increases. Universally, I know that if someone drinks excessively, its more likely that they'll be in a situation where judgements impaired and do something they regret. To me, the fact that there's responsible users doesn't take away from the fact that there's irresponsible ones. You can say its all the abusers fault for not using it right. However, how are they to know they're abusing it wrongly when their judgement's impaired from the use of it? I guess they could pre-plan not to abuse it. Statistically, there's always going to be a certain percentage of the population that's addicted to alcohol, and there's really no way to know if you'll end up apart of that population. Getting into alcohol is like Russian Roulette in that way. Its just an inherent part of human nature, and you may or may not end up an addict based on chance. Circumstances might go the wrong way, and you might find that the alcohol high is the best means of self medication for depression. Should everyone play that game of hit and miss and just assume that their causal use of alcohol won't ever become an addiction? By casual use, I don't mean a little bit of wine purely for taste every now and then, just as by porn, I don't mean a nude painting or still for simple admiration, The risk is still there in the occasional drunken stupor, whether its realized it or not. Simply thinking yourself better and superior to the alcohol addicts you've seen in the past doesn't make it so or make the probability go away. Making it illegal would be bad too, because its a grey area. Its not like rape or murder, either, where someone directly gets harmed by the act being discussed, where its not just any matter of risk within the action but pure evil in it. I'm talking about a universal, 'potential' harm from an act, that may or may not materialize, so you really don't want to take any legal action against it. That also gives unnecessary power to the state, which also has a potential, in itself, for even greater harm than even what alcohol poses. It also serves a needed purpose for society to, unbiasedly, put people into prison for true crimes against humanity, whether rich or poor, black or white, but, in practice, it probably doesn't exactly work that way. If practiced as it is in theory, though, the potential for harm is outweighed by a proportionally equal potential for good. I'm talking about government with democratic controls in place, not tyrannies.

    Since the risk on society is still there, universally, and there really isn't an equal potential for good, I think it would be best if people made an educated decision not to use alcohol at all. In the same way, I'm wondering if there's the same kind of risk in all porn. Is there a universal risk and universal lack of equal benefit that would, psychologically or otherwise, dismerit all porn in the same way? I tried to elaborate, as best as I could, on where I'm coming from.

    In the same way, I think porn might give men false, sexual expectations and cause them to secretly resent their wives. That's a valid argument I've seen. Porn hasn't ever caused anyone to go beat their wives though, as has been the case with alcohol. I don't think that's all the alcohol's fault, but it might have not happened if their inhibitions weren't down. Anyway, yah, I haven't seen an argument that shows that there's a universal property in porn that makes it as dangerous as those other things I'm against

    I think there's real arguments to be made with that, and people should be open to opposing opinions about these things. I'm not really compelled against porn yet, as I am against cigarettes,gambling, and alcohol, though. I haven't seen any strong enough arguments for or in support of it.
     
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  13. Axiom

    Axiom Account Closed

    Interesting points.

    Universally is a odd subject for me, because I try to look at all the specifics included for the event in question, rather than a series of events that paints it's own picture. Though I know from from said event, subsequent events will emerge directly related to said event which can be positive or negative for the universal topic.

    Im not a member of the porn industry, nor do I know about what it takes to be a part of it. Though I do know human nature a little bit, and where theirs money to be made at an "easy" way, it can be lureing, especially to the desperate, submissive and niave. And those who are attuned to the expression of people can detect those who are desperate, and potentially prey upon them.

    But that concept can be applied to anything in life where theirs something to be gained.

    It's a bit difficult to argue for or against something when I don't really have any patterns of incidents or anything. Though, we do know sex is a huge commodity, and in the lesser developed worlds and less structured societies, exploitation is high. Then again, that concept can be applied to anything.

    I feel as long as the actors are 100% consenting adults, who am I to say or judge. Regular STD scans should be done, and protection wheter it's implants or a condom would be highly advisable. And that women from your inital post who contracted STDS, that's absolutly horrible, but she had a choice. I reckon she was easy to manipulate, extremely desperate, or uneducated.

    I reckon people need to be more aware of themselves, and who they truly are and want to be. Aswell as, to take a look at something that is involved in their most intense desire. Like, porn. Are you watching a video of a person who is desperate and in need of money? Or someone who enjoys what they are doing.

    Erhm, I donno, kinda general comments from me, but like I said, it's too universal for me. I'm just not good at them
     
  14. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    Honestly, porn allows me to relieve sexual tension (which needs to be relieved) without having to fantasize - fantasies are often triggering in a depression phase. Therefore I'd say it's a good thing, at least for me.

    And some of my favourite porn is voluntary, unpaid work.
     
  15. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member


    Well, I don't have a problem with looking at specific cases either. With that, you can argue that certain phenomena within the porn industry's bad, or anything else for that matter, and be completely valid. I've heard some people argue against all porn, for one reason or another, and I don't want to be completely dismissive of those arguments either though.

    It can be bad to approach life in an overly absolutist way, but there definitely are cases where you can be completely against something across the board and still maintain rationality. For example, just because people can die of over hydration from drinking water doesn't mean that all water's bad. Its a necessary substance for all life on earth, so it really is only bad in that once case of over indulgence. You definitely wouldn't want to put an age limit on it because of that potential risk.

    With cigarettes, on the other hand, I know that its not just bad for minors but for adults too. There's properties within smoked tobacco that are fundamentally toxic to the body, unlike water. There's really no redeeming benefit in it, other than stress relief, most of which is necessitated by the addiction caused by smoking the tobacco itself. Then, on top of that, it causes cancer. Many people are aware of this but can't stop because of their dependency. I don't think people should support an industry that's so exploitative of human beings in that way. I don't advise other people to not to not smoke because I want to sound self righteous but because I care. That's why I'm open to what Feminists have to say. They might come off as overbearing but may have legitimate arguments I pretty much agree with your fifth paragraph though. As long as its regulated and they're treated with respect, I don't see as much harm in it.

    As for the possible, positive effects of porn, I read a study that showed that the country's with the least strict porn laws had the least rape, Japan being among them. Its just a correlation study though, and I don't really know what "least strict" really means. That could be bad.

    Its been an interesting discussion.
     
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  16. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member

    That's true, aoeu, there is a lot of voluntary work. That takes the prostitution argument out of it. If the relationship between the couple's mutual, and they're just having sex on camera for the fun of it, the only real argument left to porn having a universal harm to it is psychological. I don't even know if that's the case. Everyone masturbates. Men are more visual and would naturally fantasize, through mental imagery, about other people anyway. I think its best not to create false, sexual expectations though. That's something that needs to be worked out personally though. I think there's, more likely than not, a healthy and an unhealthy way in approaching porn (the use of sexual imagery for, typically autoerotic, sexual, stimulation). That whole yin and yang argument I made was a bad one. I still believe in the existence of irredeemable, universal evils within one institution or another, but the yin and yang analogy was a bad way of conveying it.
     
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  17. JonathanK

    JonathanK Well-Known Member

    Fantasy porn's another story though, than just porn in general. If someone has a sick, truly perverted, sadist, murderous kink, etc, and they get off on make believe porn that appeals to that, I'm glad that its not real. They shouldn't be punished for a thought crime, but I think that's still a toxic mentality. For example, people shouldn't be punished for being Nazis, as long as they don't act on their genocidal beliefs. I think they're very convoluted, though, and something should be done to persuade them out of their hateful thinking and antisocial fetishes, if that's even possible.
     
  18. Mortal Moon

    Mortal Moon Well-Known Member

    Porn is fun and completely harmless. Most of it is of simply abysmal quality, though- sometimes you have to dig around to find the good stuff.

    I don't always use it, but sometimes it really helps.
     
  19. Chargette

    Chargette Well-Known Member

    Women degraded because of it. Men enslaved by it. Wives hurt by it. Money spent on it.

    All to line someones pocket book with one hell of a lot of money.
     
  20. aoeu

    aoeu Well-Known Member

    I don't think there's even anything wrong with voluntary prostitution. It's a way to make money when everything else has failed - I've been considering getting into gay prostitution to pay the rent, since I'm unable to work in other capacities. The problem is with the cocaine or speed or what have you addiction that forces people to have sex for money.

    And men are hardly enslaved by pornography. They choose to view it. Wives aren't hurt by pornography - they're hurt by their husbands. Pornography exists because demand for it exists, always has, and always will.
     
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