Pro suicide websites

Do you think pro suicide websites should be banned?


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#61
I see your point, but the difference is when you are being racist and all, you are personally attacking someone which is like verbal assault. .
Sticks and stones. I'd rather see someone being called names and "bullied" rather than see someone encouraging another to DIE. Dying is more harmful than being called a name. My son learned how to kill himself from a YouTube video... I went on FOX Television after condemning YouTube and their failure to remove that "how to" video. The world was outraged. The video is gone. My son is gone. Thank God we have a civilized society (at least in my country) that would prosecute the owner's of a pro-suicide website. Indeed, those who set up such sites should be locked away where they can not harm other people. I apologize for the strong opinion, but suicide devastated the lives of myself and my family.
 

ravens

SF Supporter
#62
No need to apologize. I had remembered about you posting your story in another thread before and if anything Im sorry to get into this, and for your loss.

I think you may have swayed me a little, but im still on the fence, not that my opinion matters. One thing to point out though, is the site I was on that was showing methods of how to do it was actually discouraging suicide it seemed, but they would have made it easier for me to had I got the supplies that is true. All I know is I came very close when I first joined this site in summer, so bad I was crying almost all day everyday and did not go out to drive anywhere because I was afraid I would stop by the train tracks close to my place if i left the house. Luckily I am making progress since then but I know I would have hated to had somehow survived had I done that being deformed or something when I could have tried a less gruesome method that would not have also mentally scared a train driver for life.

I guess, there are points for both sides to be made. I may be more unsure now of my opinion. One thing I am 100 percent for though, is at least allowing terminally ill people or people who have to survive on breathing machines and such to have to choice to leave with dignity.
 

Kaos General

Well-Known Member
#63
For those who always scream, "protect free speech," then I propose to you that there should be allowed sites to bully you on, and racist sites that attack people of different colors and different sexual preferences... AFTERALL, PROTECT FREE SPEECH, RIGHT???

Freedom of speech, however, in a civilized world, does not mean freedom to say and do any thing you want. Get it?
Damn right they should have their freedom of speech protected. I might not agree with anything someone says but i will fight for their right to say it. These sites do exist, even facebook is full of racist groups and pages set up solely to bully someone, such as the BNP, the EDL, the MDL, westboro baptist church, KKK to name but a few. I personally think the most effective way of dealing with bullies and racists is allowing them a platform to spew their hatred and publicise their views all over the place and let everyone see precisely how ridiculous they sound.

As for a civilised world, i certainly dont live in one of those
 

Prinnctopher's Belt

Antiquities Friend
SF Supporter
#64
For those who always scream, "protect free speech," then I propose to you that there should be allowed sites to bully you on, and racist sites that attack people of different colors and different sexual preferences... AFTERALL, PROTECT FREE SPEECH, RIGHT???

Freedom of speech, however, in a civilized world, does not mean freedom to say and do any thing you want. Get it?
There are already such sites. Let me list a few:

<mod edit - links to hate sites removed>

If you believe that words and bullying and hazing and rumors and gossip don't hurt people, then you're not focusing on the problem. Suicide is a SYMPTOM of other problems in a person's life. If someone killed himself because of a YouTube video, the LAST thing you should worry about is the video, and then come to suicide web site to say that "sticks and stones" rap as if it has no effect in causing some people to have suicidal ideation in the first place. People who want to kill themselves do so regardless of YouTube instructions on how to do it.
 
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Prinnctopher's Belt

Antiquities Friend
SF Supporter
#65
I'm so sick of this hogwash about words not hurting people when every day we know that vulnerable people with low self-esteem are killing themselves as a result of it. Shut it up and stop dismissing it!
 
#66
I think you totally missed the entire point and took it too literally.
At any rate, I hope that you never have to live in my shoes if you ever have a loved one that is lost. That. And please don't tell me to shut up. Disagree with me, okay... but come on.
 
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Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
Admin
SF Supporter
#67
Freedom of speech is a right, but as with any right, it comes with responsibility. When people have the right to say what they think, they must also be responsible enough not to say things that will cause or encourage real harm...such as inciting/encouraging suicide, self-harm, harming others, hatred, pornography, obscenity, other criminal acts. People who have the right to speak their minds owe it to themselves and their society not to manipulate and violate those who are more vulnerable.

Someone who is feeling suicidal for any reason is vulnerable. Suggesting and detailing methods for suicide is subtly manipulative and is therefore DANGEROUS. Words that bully/abuse people are also DANGEROUS because they hurt people, and they can be a reason for some people's suicidal thinking. Words and ideas can contribute to the oppression of an individual or groups, which can lead to suicide as well.

Freedom of speech is not a right to be taken lightly.

Pro-suicide sites are dangerous and can be fertile grounds for preying on very vulnerable people. I think pro-suicide sites are wrong.
 

fromthatshow

Staff Alumni
SF Supporter
#68
Ultimately it is our right to do what we want with our own bodies and lives. I see both sides of the argument. If you're going to do it, you're going to do it. But anyway we can make it harder for someone is good. If someone comes here looking for methods and instead finds support and a reason to live, then that is good.
 
#69
I don't think they should be band. I'm trying to find one for months. I'm not pro suicide but I'm am suicidal and there Impossible to find. I think what I might be looking for a pro choice sight though. I don't know.
 
#70
What you are missing in the whole "it is our own right" stance is that if sites were set up to actually assist people to learn foolproof methods, and to provide encouragement to commit, then it could (AND SURELY WOULD) hurt many who it should not. How many young (or older) people have a bad break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend and instead of waiting a few weeks to get past it, would think, "I just want to die right now," and then find a method and execute it? Think of the innocents lost, think of the parents who'd lose children senselessly, and etc. Really though, it is moot point... as I stated previous, any site (at least in the U.S.) would be shut down rather quickly and more than likely the owner's would face potential prosecution. It's not really open for debate beyond debating, cause the reality is that it's not gonna happen unless it were set up and run from some third world nation. It's not a matter of censorship, or of taking away someone's own personal right of choice -- it is about protecting the innocents who might act impulsively whereas otherwise an hour, a day, or a week later they'd look back and say, "I'm sure glad I didn't follow through with that!"
 

Acy

Mama Bear - TLC, Common Sense
Admin
SF Supporter
#71
What you are missing in the whole "it is our own right" stance is that if sites were set up to actually assist people to learn foolproof methods, and to provide encouragement to commit, then it could (AND SURELY WOULD) hurt many who it should not. How many young (or older) people have a bad break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend and instead of waiting a few weeks to get past it, would think, "I just want to die right now," and then find a method and execute it? Think of the innocents lost, think of the parents who'd lose children senselessly, and etc. Really though, it is moot point... as I stated previous, any site (at least in the U.S.) would be shut down rather quickly and more than likely the owner's would face potential prosecution. It's not really open for debate beyond debating, cause the reality is that it's not gonna happen unless it were set up and run from some third world nation. It's not a matter of censorship, or of taking away someone's own personal right of choice -- it is about protecting the innocents who might act impulsively whereas otherwise an hour, a day, or a week later they'd look back and say, "I'm sure glad I didn't follow through with that!"
Well said, Pick!
 

total eclipse

SF Friend
Staff Alumni
#72
I think it is sick ok sick of people to even allow these sites and i think this thread should be closed people lives are ended there is no discussion really there isn't
 

justMe7

Well-Known Member
#76
Course not. They're going to be a hot spot for sick twisted individuals who prey on more open and vulnerable people.. let's just get that straight. They are not safe places. But regardless when you shift those people aside there is affinity to death. I don't want to go further in that because the people that frequent this forum look at death from a very narrow point of view. So for people who are suicidal? Wouldn't be the smartest thing in the world. Just like maybe teaching a 10 year old how to make explosives, or making a child kill animals without first teaching them respect for life, the animal, before and after killing it.

Death and association are freedoms that no one can ever take away. While it does lead to people being geared in unfortunate directions, unfortunatly, we don't have the right to nullify places that revolve around death in that regard. However people that purposely hunt down vulnerable people directly/indirectly and guide them towards death.. Actually that is illegal and they are dealt with.
 

Kaos General

Well-Known Member
#77
What you are missing in the whole "it is our own right" stance is that if sites were set up to actually assist people to learn foolproof methods, and to provide encouragement to commit, then it could (AND SURELY WOULD) hurt many who it should not. How many young (or older) people have a bad break up with a boyfriend or girlfriend and instead of waiting a few weeks to get past it, would think, "I just want to die right now," and then find a method and execute it? Think of the innocents lost, think of the parents who'd lose children senselessly, and etc. Really though, it is moot point... as I stated previous, any site (at least in the U.S.) would be shut down rather quickly and more than likely the owner's would face potential prosecution. It's not really open for debate beyond debating, cause the reality is that it's not gonna happen unless it were set up and run from some third world nation. It's not a matter of censorship, or of taking away someone's own personal right of choice -- it is about protecting the innocents who might act impulsively whereas otherwise an hour, a day, or a week later they'd look back and say, "I'm sure glad I didn't follow through with that!"
Not missing the point at all. Banning something never works, if that was the case no one would be hooked on drugs. Again, your missing the point, so i'll say it again, ultimately if these types of sites were banned so would this one, all self help forums, and they wouldn't stop their, quite why anyone would advocate for this is beyond me.

I dont mean to burst your bubble but you only need to type the right words into a search engine to find these sites, they still exist and have been around for years. Under what law would you prosecute someone for giving advice and methods because as far as im aware its not illegal and never has been, well not in the UK anyway.

Personally what i think should happen and should keep on happening is take the taboo out of mental health so people aren't afraid to ask for help or feel like they are all alone. Its why most people (myself included) seek out pro suicide sites, because their is still a stigma attached to asking for help, even more so when your male.
 
#78
I dont mean to burst your bubble but you only need to type the right words into a search engine to find these sites, they still exist and have been around for years. Under what law would you prosecute someone for giving advice and methods because as far as im aware its not illegal and never has been, well not in the UK anyway.

There is no bubble to burst. I have first hand actual authoritative experience knowing that if someone online were to encourage suicide and a person then did commit, they WOULD be prosecuted. I have seen it, I have experienced it, I have witnessed it, I have lived it. I can't speak for your UK, but I know what is true in the U.S. Build a website in this country and encourage someone through it to kill themselves, then when they do... I hope you have some very good attorney's. I have no bubble to be burst, I have only actual reality of what is real and I have seen it. If there is a stigma to overcome, I promise you that your seeking out pro suicide sites is only going to grow that stigma larger. Would be nice instead if you tried to contribute to removing the stigma by seeking out positive HELP.
 

Kaos General

Well-Known Member
#79
If there is a stigma to overcome, I promise you that your seeking out pro suicide sites is only going to grow that stigma larger. Would be nice instead if you tried to contribute to removing the stigma by seeking out positive HELP.
Sorry but what the hell? I dont even know what to say to that. Nice to see this site hasn't really changed that much in 4 years.
 
#80
How has this place not changed in 4 years? Mine is only one opinion and is not the opinion necessarily of the site. Don't blame or profile the entire site simply because my opinion in the soapbox differs from your own - in fact, looking at the "poll" here, I'd say your opinion may be in the majority, and mine in the minority (at least here on this site... which based on demographics, I can understand).

At any rate, let me explain my above statement better as I can see it could be taken incorrectly, or at least not as intended, especially if out of context. For that, I do apologize.

What I am saying is that if you believe there is a stigma about suicide, and I agree there is (I work hard every day to try to change that), then you should take steps to try to decrease the stigma. Pro Suicide Sites only ADD to the stigma. It may not appear as such if you are in the inside looking out, but from the outside looking in... people who are not suicidal quite naturally look negatively upon anything that is pro-suicide (hence, increasing the stigma). A person who is depressed should be seeking help, and it is understood that the depression can create a barrier that prevents that, but sites that would promote suicide as "a good thing" are stigma fuel. This is what helps maintain the stigma and that which prevents people from becoming better educated about suicide prevention awareness. Your own post seemed concerned about the stigma that exists, and I was only attempting to add comment as to a potential, and likely, contributor to such.

That all said, I'm not really sure why, on a pro life site such as this, we are discussing whether or not pro suicide sites are good or bad. ???
 
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